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Thread: Just Thinking

  1. #46
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    Re: Just Thinking

    All of these quarterbacks are mobile guys, they are faster, sometimes significantly, than most of their counterparts. The difference lies in what part the run plays in the quarterback's personal playbook and mindset. All of them, for the exception of Vick, Vince Young and to some degree Steve Young all ran only a couple times a game on average, and only when they had to. When they were pressured and had to come up with a first down run after the defenders got past the blockers and were still in solid coverage downfield.

    Vince Young and Vick have incorporated running the ball as part of their gameplan. They have plays designed for them to run the ball like a running back. All teams have QB sneaks and maybe even a trick bootleg or something, but these guys are on the next level. The average team runs about 60 plays per game. For Vick, 7.1 of those plays, more than 10% of his teams snaps, are runs by him. Vince Young hovers right at that 10% mark. As we can see on film, they also spend a good deal of time in the backfield running and scrambling and trying to throw on the run, this greatly lowers accuracy, which is seen in their stats.

    As for Steve Young? He only ran about 7% of the snaps. If we assume that a QB will be pressured into running the ball on a passing down 2.5 times a game(Montana as a randomly selected reference, I would say it's even more), where less mobile QB's will throw the ball away, this gives us that Steve actually ran designed runs less than twice per game, Vince more than three and Vick more than four. This then yields that Vick occupies 7.7% of the plays as designed runs. Vince takes up 5.7%, and Steve a measly 3%.

    If we take this one step further and say that one run per game for each QB is a sneak on the goalline or on 3rd or 4th down, we then bring Steve's designed run percentage even lower.

    The point is, you brought up a bunch of names, most of them no where close to the modern scrambling QB's, which Steve Young opposes vehemently on ESPN, by the way, but Steve Young was pretty close. He does lead the NFL in running yards from scrimmage by a QB, and other than Vick and Vince Young, he ran the most as well. In college, he was a scrambling QB, but he was not even drafted when he came out. He played in the USFL to start before being picked up by the Bucs and then traded to the Whiners. It was not until he settled down and became a mobile, not scrambling quarterback that he went on to be the hall of famer that he is. The same thing can be said of McNabb, in that he was a scrambler at Syracuse and starting in the NFL, but he has since reformed the same way Young did, and now looks to pass at every opportunity as opposed to taking off downfield. That's why he made the Super Bowl.
    Last edited by TekeRam; -03-19-2008 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Grammar


  2. #47
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    Re: Just Thinking

    I love it but then again I attend ECU... oh yeah Chris Johnson is nothing like Reggie Bush, Chris will actually run inside instead of bouncing everything outside.

  3. #48
    RANDYRAM Guest

    Re: Just Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Elway - 3407 yards, 3.3 att./game, 14.6 yards/game
    Montana - 1676 yards, 2.4 att./game, 8.7 yards/game
    S. Young - 4239 yards, 4.3 att./game, 25.1 yards/game
    Vick - 3859 yards, 7.1 att./game, 52.1 yards/game
    V. Young - 947 yards, 5.9 att./game, 31.6 yards/game

    Staubach - 2264 yards, 3.1 att./game, 17.3 yards/game
    Tarkenton - 3674 yards, 2.7 att./game, 14.9 yards/game

    Again, Vick and VY are scramblers. Those other guys (with the exception of S. Young) are just mobile enough to get out of trouble.

    And back to the original point, scramblers don't win Super Bowls on a historical basis.
    Well HUbison & TEKE thats your OPINION

    And back to the original point! I LIKE DIXON BE CAUES HE COULD SCRAMBLE!
    I would never run a collage type ofense! THIS IS THE PROS!! It's pass first run if you have too!

    LETS AGREE TO DISAGREE any of them with our Oline would be better
    than what we have NOW!
    Last edited by RANDYRAM; -03-19-2008 at 06:01 PM.

  4. #49
    RANDYRAM Guest

    Re: Just Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by serkicker32 View Post
    I love it but then again I attend ECU... oh yeah Chris Johnson is nothing like Reggie Bush, Chris will actually run inside instead of bouncing everything outside.
    WELCOME serkicker
    where have you been?
    maybe you could give some of us rams fans some incite about
    Chris Johnson? WERE DIEING TO KNOW
    Last edited by RANDYRAM; -03-19-2008 at 05:46 PM.

  5. #50
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    Re: Just Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy
    Well HUbison & TEKE thats your OPINION
    No Randy, those are statistics........collection, classification, analysis, & interpretation of numerical facts which impose order and regularity on aggregates of disparate elements.

    Not opinion.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  6. #51
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    Re: Just Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    WELCOME serkicker
    where have you been?
    maybe you could give some of us rams fans some incite about
    Chris Johnson? WERE DIEING TO KNOW
    well he started playing at wideout his freshman year then Skip came in and started to convert him to a running back and over the next three years he has done everything the team has asked him to do. I remember watch the bowl game this previous year and he had a fumble (his only of the year); but what I remember the most was the way he came back from that play, no pouting. He punished the Boise defense on the next handoff breaking two tackles. He reminds me of a faster Kevin Faulk; great team player, will be best at third down situations, but will be able to carry the load for 4-5 games if injuries to SJax occurs.

  7. #52
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    Re: Just Thinking

    SPEED is over-rated! Trung Canidate was really fast too, how did he turn out. We dont need a conversion player with our second pick. Jerry Rice,Chris Carter and Jimmy Smith were all looked at as not running fast enough. All three will be Hall of Famers. If we are taking a wr in the second lets take one that has played the position for a while. We have Steven Jackson as a rb and where exactly would Chris Johnson fit in on this team. We dont need a Kevein Faulk type player Jackson can already do it all. Jackson is our every down back! I want the Rams to draft talented guys not fast guys. Fast guys can run fast but can they play? Ron Brown was fast but he was not a great wr, he was average at best. Let Al Davis drool over Chris Johnson's 40 time and draft him we dont need him.

    As for Taking Brennan and Dixon or a scrambling qb because that's what we need is just not true. How many scrambling qb's have won the Superbowl? It's not a big percentage I tell you that. I count 2 in 42 Superbowls(Young,Elway). I think I'll take my chances with a pocket passer with pocket awareness. I would take a scrambler if he was as talented as Steve Young or John Elway but do you see that in either Dixon or Brennan because I dont.

    How about the Rams draft talented players at positions we need. I'm tired of the Eric Crouch's and Steve Bellasari players getting converted to something they are not. If Chris Johnson was better suited for rb in college I would rather not have the guy.
    Just Fix It

  8. #53
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    Re: Just Thinking

    when Jackson gets hurt from doing it all and our offense dies remember this... and he is not a player switching positions he already plays running back and has experience at wide receiver. Think Priest Holmes (Al Saunders) Marshall Faulk (Mike Martz). Oh yeah Trung was just a workout warrior have you ever seen Chris Johnson play, I have and he can. The "experts" expected Chris to run really fast at the combine so it wasn't a surprise workout... people like Kiper had him rated as the top senior running back in the draft before the combine.

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    Re: Just Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by serkicker32 View Post
    when Jackson gets hurt from doing it all and our offense dies remember this... and he is not a player switching positions he already plays running back and has experience at wide receiver. Think Priest Holmes (Al Saunders) Marshall Faulk (Mike Martz). Oh yeah Trung was just a workout warrior have you ever seen Chris Johnson play, I have and he can. The "experts" expected Chris to run really fast at the combine so it wasn't a surprise workout... people like Kiper had him rated as the top senior running back in the draft before the combine.
    I dont care what Johnson had done. We DON NOT need a running back in round two. The original poster suggested he could be used as a wr because we needed a deep threat. So my response was why we dont need to bring in Johnson in the second round to be a deep threat wr. We also dont need to waste a pick on a rb in round two. We have more glaring needs than a 3rd down rb with our 2nd pick of the draft. You said when Jackson gets hurt. Hmmm...how do you know this will happen crystal ball? What if Jackson never gets hurt and plys 5 or 6 more years at a very high level then what good did Johnson do us? I'll take my chances with Steven Jackson, like I said speed is over rated and we have a top five rb already so there is no need to waste a pick on Johnson in round two.
    Just Fix It

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    Re: Just Thinking

    While I think Chris Johnson is a great player and might be able to turn into a Wes Welcker? type WR/RB I think we have greater needs. But on that note do you remember Trung Canidate? Does anyone see any similarities. Harrydog is right to compare Gholston and Little in size both listed at 6' 2" to 6'3" and 263 to 270lbs. I think Gholston is faster and stronger, then both Little and C. Long, who weighted in at 275. I vote for a trade deep into the first round and pick up DE Harvey and some picks.

  11. #56
    RANDYRAM Guest

    Re: Just Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    I dont care what Johnson had done. We DON NOT need a running back in round two. The original poster suggested he could be used as a wr because we needed a deep threat. So my response was why we dint need to bring in Johnson in the second round to be a deep threat wr. We also dont need to waste a pick on a rb in round two. We have more glaring needs than a 3rd down rb with our 2nd pick of the draft. You said when Jackson gets hurt. Hmmm...how do you know this will happen crystal ball? What if Jackson never gets hurt and plys 5 or 6 more years at a very high level then what good did Johnson do us? I'll take my chances with Steven Jackson, like I said speed is over rated and we have a top five rb already so there is no need to waste a pick on Johnson in round two.
    Hey rammiser good to talk with you!
    I just looked at the rams roster and saw a few names that I forgot about!
    (1) Torry Holt
    (2) Drew Bennett
    (3) Dante Hall
    (4) Marques Hagans
    (5) Dane Looker
    (6) Derek Stanley
    (7) Brandon Williams
    (8) Reche Caldwell .

    And the Rams were still trying to work out a deal with Caldwell.
    Caldwell, 28, was a second-round draft pick by San Diego in 2002 out of Florida.
    His best season came in 2006 when he lead New England in receptions (61), reception yards
    (760) and scored four touchdowns.
    This might be THE 8th WR ( HOW MANY MANY DO WE NEED??)

    We have five RBs
    (1) Steven Jackson (missed several games with back spazms)
    (2) Brian Lenard (2 shoulder operations this off season)
    (3) Antonio Pittman
    (4) Chris Massy (acutely the long snapper)
    (5) Travis Minor

    That gives us 3 tail backs 2 FBs
    Steven Jackson is going to be up for new contract and will be able to hold the rams hostage!
    Because they don't
    have another starter Quality RB (Lenard & Massey are FBs) and the 2nd rd
    would be a great time to get good RB like Chris Johnson!
    AND WE JUST SINGED A CB TODAY!

    CJ IN 2 GO RAMS
    Last edited by RANDYRAM; -03-20-2008 at 09:36 PM.

  12. #57
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    Re: Just Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDYRAM View Post
    Hey rammiser good to talk with you!
    I just looked at the rams roster and saw a few names that I forgot about!
    (1) Torry Holt
    (2) Drew Bennett
    (3) Dante Hall
    (4) Marques Hagans
    (5) Dane Looker
    (6) Derek Stanley
    (7) Brandon Williams
    (8) Reche Caldwell .

    And the Rams were still trying to work out a deal with Caldwell.
    Caldwell, 28, was a second-round draft pick by San Diego in 2002 out of Florida.
    His best season came in 2006 when he lead New England in receptions (61), reception yards
    (760) and scored four touchdowns.
    This might be THE 8th WR ( HOW MANY MANY DO WE NEED??)

    We have five RBs
    (1) Steven Jackson (missed several games with back spazms)
    (2) Brian Lenard (2 shoulder operations this off season)
    (3) Antonio Pittman
    (4) Chris Massy (acutely the long snapper)
    (5) Travis Minor
    That gives us 3 tail backs 2 FBs
    Steven Jackson is going to be up for new contract and will be able to hold the rams hostage!
    Because they don't
    have another starter Quality RB (Lenard & Massey are FBs) and the 2nd rd
    would be a great time to get good RB like Chris Johnson!
    AND WE JUST SINGED A CB TODAY!
    CJ IN 2 GO RAMS
    You crack me up, Randy. First, you want the Rams to draft Johnson in the second round to play WR. Now that you see that we have 8, you run away from that idea. Oh, to answer your question, between 10-15. For camp anyway. We'll carry about 5-7 total into the season.

    Then, despite the fact that we have a full stable of RB's for the season(you forgot Owens as the primary fullback, by the way), you think that we need Johnson as a running back just so that Jackson cannot "hold us hostage". No, Jackson can't hold us hostage. He can choose not to resign, but then we have Pittman and we have Leonard and next year's draft. RB is the EASIEST position to fill by far. Willie Parker, undrafted. Ryan Grant, traded for practically nothing. Want more examples? I have them. Besides, I wouldn't want Johnson as a primary back anyway, as he is too frail to carry the load as he stands now. Look at what happened to Reggie Bush when he tried.

    Running back is less of a need than anything on our team other than TE, punter and kicker. As you say, we have no need for any more WR's, and so Johnson really is not needed at all.

  13. #58
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    Re: Just Thinking

    Oh, and since you're so concerned about Leonard and his surgeries, I guess we better cut Carriker too, as he had surgery on his torn labrum. He won't be ready until AFTER Leonard is, so he's certainly done.

  14. #59
    RANDYRAM Guest

    Re: Just Thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by TekeRam View Post
    Oh, and since you're so concerned about Leonard and his surgeries, I guess we better cut Carriker too, as he had surgery on his torn labrum. He won't be ready until AFTER Leonard is, so he's certainly done.
    Hey Teke, I edited the original post and gave a few reasons why I like certain players. If you don't like the post, go make your own post (LMAO I just noticed you are only 24 yrs old. No wonder you don't know about the players I refer to. I have been watching football twice as long as you have been alive. You really couldn't know about the Joe Montana's, Fran Tarkington's, Roger Staubach's, John Elway, (maybe Elway) Anyway, now I understand why you don't know what I am talking about. But that's okay, like I said, I have my opinion, and you have yours, so we shall agree to disagree.
    Last edited by RANDYRAM; -03-21-2008 at 01:26 AM.

  15. #60
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    Re: Just Thinking

    Randy has to be Chris Johnson's agent. I swear...

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