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Thread: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    You do know 2 WHITE guys were chasing him right?
    True, but that 1 db that he shed like a little schoolboy had no chance of even chasing lol


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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Have you bothered looking at his numbers from the last two years? If he's not an elite WR prospect, I don't know who is.
    By that amazing analysis Jordan White should be drafted ahead of Blackmon. Dante Ridgeway should be in the Pro-Bowl by now. Performance on the field in college isn't everything. Blackmon played against weak defenses in the Big12.

    If you notice in the Stanford game he outran their best DB who is a 5th round prospect. He was also caught from behind by their OLB 2x in the game.

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I truly think that some of you who are criticizing Blackmon never (or barely) saw him play. I've seen several of his games, and the guy was a man among boys playing in a major BCS conference.
    I've seen Blackmon play 2x in person and have focused pretty well on the Big12 as a Tigers season ticket holder. How many times have you watched Blackmon in person or on TV?

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    I've seen Blackmon play 2x in person and have focused pretty well on the Big12 as a Tigers season ticket holder. How many times have you watched Blackmon in person or on TV?
    Enough times to know that it is a very good thing you are not in charge of player evaluation for the Rams.

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Enough times to know that it is a very good thing you are not in charge of player evaluation for the Rams.
    Yet you're the one whos going off of college statistics... I guess by these standards like someone else said Greg Salas should have been a top 5 pick as well as Ryan Broyles..

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    I guess the real question is not whether he's worth a high draft pick?

    but rather "can we afford not too grab him?" An interesting couple months ahead anyways.

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Yet you're the one whos going off of college statistics... I guess by these standards like someone else said Greg Salas should have been a top 5 pick as well as Ryan Broyles..
    I see you're into selective reading.

    There is a checklist of things I look for in a WR:

    Consistent Performance - check
    Against top NCAA opponents - check
    Average or better size - check
    Absence of signficant off-field troubles - check
    The "eyeball test" - check
    Sufficient timed speed - TBD

    Using your examples, Salas played in a second tier conference, did not show the dominance on the field that Blackmon showed, and lacked sufficient timed speed.

    Broyles (pre-injury) would have been a question mark at size.

    I, of course, can reverse your silly argument. There are plenty of WRs with great size/speed combinations who were complete busts in the NFL. So, in the end, its "eye of the beholder."

    For my money, Blackmon is worth the No. 2 pick (though I'd sure love to get him at No. 4 with an extra first round pick to boot!).

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Dear Josh,

    Stop smoking crack. He put up big numbers on all of us, and we either play on Sunday or will.

    Sincerely,

    Earl Thomas (Seahawks starting FS)
    Aaron Williams (Bills CB)
    Prince Amukamara (Giants 1st round pick in 2011)
    Eric Hagg (Browns DB)
    Alfonzo Dennard (#4 CB prospect in this draft)
    Quinton Carter (Broncos starting Safety)
    Jonathan Nelson (our draft pick and now Panthers Safety)
    Leonard Johnson (CB draft prospect in this draft)
    Jamell Fleming (CB draft prospect in this draft)
    Earl Thomas is and was a S... how did Blackmon go against him? I mean in a way he obviously did but its not like Thomas was lined up on top of him 60 plays a game. Aaron Williams he beat. Amukamara he beat. Hagg is terrible... Dennard got schooled all over the senior bowl, but hes talented. Quinton Carter is an in the box SS... Jonathan Nelson is terrible. And theres a reason not many including me know the last 2...

    So in other words the only people I'd give you is Amukamara, Dennard and Williams. Not to mention they both struggled at times this year, but thats expected (Amukamara, Williams).

    And that concludes my opinion. I do not think he faced elite talent what so ever. You know when you have to go digging for Safeties and "CB draft prospects" what 7th rounders? That theres a problem. Good info though hub.
    Last edited by sosa39rams; -02-14-2012 at 07:15 PM.

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I see you're into selective reading.

    There is a checklist of things I look for in a WR:

    Consistent Performance - check
    Against top NCAA opponents - check
    Average or better size - check
    Absence of signficant off-field troubles - check
    The "eyeball test" - check
    Sufficient timed speed - TBD

    Using your examples, Salas played in a second tier conference, did not show the dominance on the field that Blackmon showed, and lacked sufficient timed speed.

    Broyles (pre-injury) would have been a question mark at size.

    I, of course, can reverse your silly argument. There are plenty of WRs with great size/speed combinations who were complete busts in the NFL. So, in the end, its "eye of the beholder."

    For my money, Blackmon is worth the No. 2 pick (though I'd sure love to get him at No. 4 with an extra first round pick to boot!).
    Top NCAA opponents - absolutely no check
    Average size - check, but you look for "average size"? I dont, though its not a reason not to draft him.
    Off-Field issues - no check, DUI. Since than he's been good, but its a blemish on his record none the less.

    So here I was realistic. For where you have checks I have 2 un-checks, and big ones at that. Off- field issues I dont think he will have any problems with, but to make it sound like he has never had any is the biased fan opinion in you talking.

    Would I take Blackmon at #2? Not sure. I'd rather trade down to 4 but than take a different route (Claiborne, Floyd) perhaps.

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Top NCAA opponents - absolutely no check
    You're just plain wrong here. He played in the Big 12. End of story.

    Average size - check, but you look for "average size"? I dont, though its not a reason not to draft him.
    If his reported measurements are accurate (6'1, 215), I'd say that he has better than average measurables (taller and bigger than both Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt, for example).

    Off-Field issues - no check, DUI. Since than he's been good, but its a blemish on his record none the less.
    I don't think that's enough to disqualify him. He also spent a lot of (off the camera) time befriending a young cancer patient.

    but to make it sound like he has never had any is the biased fan opinion in you talking.
    That's not what I said. I said he didn't have SIGNIFICANT off-field problems. I don't condone DUI, but I won't condemn a young player based upon a single incident.

    As for me being a "biased fan," that makes no sense. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a fan of Oklahoma State. My opinion of Blackmon is based upon my perception of him as an NFL prospect who the Rams will have the opportunity to draft. If he goes to another team, I can assure you that I won't be a fan of his.
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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    You're just plain wrong here. He played in the Big 12. End of story.



    If his reported measurements are accurate (6'1, 215), I'd say that he has better than average measurables (taller and bigger than both Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt, for example).



    I don't think that's enough to disqualify him. He also spent a lot of (off the camera) time befriending a young cancer patient.



    That's not what I said. I said he didn't have SIGNIFICANT off-field problems. I don't condone DUI, but I won't condemn a young player based upon a single incident.

    As for me being a "biased fan," that makes no sense. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a fan of Oklahoma State. My opinion of Blackmon is based upon my perception of him as an NFL prospect who the Rams will have the opportunity to draft. If he goes to another team, I can assure you that I won't be a fan of his.
    I meant as a fan of Blackmon, not Oklahoma State. I think a slide down at this point is crucial, as long as we get a fair deal. One Blackmon can be stopped, though I do also think he will be very nice in the NFL. We seen what happens to teams with only 1 good WR. Like when we played the *****, they doubled, tripled, and rolled coverages to Lloyd's side and he didn't have a catch all game. Not much will change here. I'd prefer slide down and grab multiple weapons because its better to have 4 or 5 decent weapons rather than 1 amazing weapon (Pats, Saints, Packers). Now mind you, those 3 teams have amazing weapons because of the amount of weapons they have; the defense cannot cover. You simply cannot cover Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Branch. Or Meachem, Henderson, Graham, Colston, Sproles, Pierre Thomas, or Mark Ingram. Packers too, with Jennings, Finley, Nelson (Who played at a pro bowl level because of the amount of 1v1's on the outsides he gets), Starks, Cobb, Jones, and Driver.

    My point is that you must have multiple weapons. Many people are comparing Blackmon to Crabtree as well, which is kind of unappealing. Though I see Blackmon as a much better player.

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    You're just plain wrong here. He played in the Big 12. End of story.
    So did Michael Crabtree, but it seems you conveniently glossed over my prior post. Maybe you're a fan of selective reading as well?

    In their first seasons as starters:

    Blackmon: 111 Rec, 1782 YDs, 20 TDs
    Crabtree: 134 Rec, 1962 YDs, 22 TDs

    It can even be argued that Crabtree was just as much or even more dominant as a collegiate player than Blackmon.

    EDIT: I even forgot to mention the fact that he was the Biletnikoff award winner two straight seasons, just like Blackmon. The point is, statistics don't always tell the story of a draft prospect and it was wrong to bring them into the discussion/argument. If you can't see this, then there is no point in going any further.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    If his reported measurements are accurate (6'1, 215), I'd say that he has better than average measurables (taller and bigger than both Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt, for example).
    No qualms here, but for JB's sake I sure hope they are accurate. Crabtree was listed at 6'2 and even as tall as 6'3 before he measured in at the exact same height and weight as Blackmon is at right now (6'1, 215). If the measurements come back a little down, that would be disappointing to say the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    As for me being a "biased fan," that makes no sense. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a fan of Oklahoma State. My opinion of Blackmon is based upon my perception of him as an NFL prospect who the Rams will have the opportunity to draft. If he goes to another team, I can assure you that I won't be a fan of his.
    This is ironic, since he was essentially make the same baseless assumptions that you were doing previously when saying that everyone had either watched very little of Blackmon or had not seen him at all. He assumed you were being biased, you assumed we all hadn't seen him play -- I guess we're even.
    Last edited by Bald_81; -02-14-2012 at 07:49 PM.

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
    So did Michael Crabtree, but it seems you conveniently glossed over my prior post. Maybe you're a fan of selective reading as well?
    No, that's still you, as you're about to prove:

    The point is, statistics don't always tell the story of a draft prospect and it was wrong to bring them into the discussion/argument. If you can't see this, then there is no point in going any further.
    Yes, and when Michael Crabtree announced he was going into the draft, many people had him rated as a top 5 pick. What they didn't know was that he was going to fracture his foot, causing him to miss the combine and workouts, and then hold out until October of his rookie year.

    So, once again, you failed to read my entire post. Had you done so, you would have seen that stats is only one of the things I look at. In Crabtree's case, there were many red flags by draft day, and more that appeared later. He's a special case, and not in a good way.

    This is ironic, since he was essentially make the same baseless assumptions that you were doing previously when saying that everyone had either watched very little of Blackmon or had not seen him at all. He assumed you were being biased, you assumed we all hadn't seen him play -- I guess we're even.
    Geez, dude, could you cry a little bit more? It never ceases to amaze me how personally some of you take this stuff.

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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    So, once again, you failed to read my entire post. Had you done so, you would have seen that stats is only one of the things I look at. In Crabtree's case, there were many red flags by draft day, and more that appeared later. He's a special case, and not in a good way.
    Here is what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Have you bothered looking at his numbers from the last two years? If he's not an elite WR prospect, I don't know who is.
    There is absolutely nothing in that statement that opens it up for debate past his statistics. What do you expect me to conclude? When you point only to the fact that his video game numbers from the past two seasons (and deduce that is the reason he MUST be an elite WR prospect), you aren't opening it up to anything else. No measurables, intangibles, nothing. So the fact that you are attacking me for not looking at your other points when you are being blatantly contradictory yourself is quite laughable. Not to mention you were disputing the comparison to others like Salas because he played against inferior competition (hence inflated statistcs), but yeah, it's not only about the numbers. I don't see how I could've possibly came to that conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Geez, dude, could you cry a little bit more? It never ceases to amaze me how personally some of you take this stuff.
    If you took the time to respond and clear up sosa39ram's allegation that you were being biased -- and that is not taking it personally -- and I'm merely making a correlation to a similar incident that YOU incited yourself, how is that taking it personally? Seems to me like you're not one to acknowledge your past mistakes, and I was just pointing them out to you. Unfortunately, you took the opportunity to belittle me instead. Can't say I'm surprised, but hey, that's the nature of the beast.
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    Re: Justin Blackmon is not worth #2

    I'm done trying to assist you with your reading comprehension deficiencies, so... we're done here.

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