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  1. #16
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Linehan has done a pretty good job with his TEs....Kleinsasser, Wiggins, McMichael....all were an intrigal part of their team's offense. Either Manu steps up or we'll be looking for a receiving threat at TE.

    Interesting sidepoint.....Linehan's last two TEs (Wiggins & McMichael) were both Georgia products. Does that make Pope more attractive to Linehan? probably not, but it's a thought.

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  2. #17
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Blankman17
    IMO, Leinart is a product of his system. Take away Reggie and Lendale and an offensive line that, on the collegiate level, is the NFL equivilent and he doesn't do nearly as well. Look at how well Texas Tech QBs perform in the NFL. I suspect Matt will be much of the same.

    (Waiting for the eventual Carson Palmer arguments to rip me asunder)

    Anyway as far as Young vs. Matt? With one, sure, you've got a guy who's been in a WCO envrionment and knows how to operate within it. Okay, with Vince, you've got a physical specimen who gains way too much ground than he should when running and actually learned how to pass.

    Given the opportunity? Give me the man from Austin.
    Okay, so you prefer Young. But that's your opinion. It doesn't mean that those who prefer Leinart "have serious talent evaluation issues." There are many reasons why someone would prefer Leinart, perhaps the biggest being what kind of system you're running and what kind of quarterback you want. There are a number of reasons why a person would prefer Young as well. I don't think it's so concrete that anyone who prefers Leinart isn't good at evaluating talent.
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  3. #18
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    If history has taught us anything, its that its tough to predict how QBs will do in the pros. Truth is, it is entirely possible that the best pro QB to come from this draft will be someone other than Leinart or Young.

  4. #19
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Jay Cutler is my pick for the best QB coming out of this draft. I have Omar Jacobs and Brodie Croyle as sleepers.
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  5. #20
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    Okay, so you prefer Young. But that's your opinion. It doesn't mean that those who prefer Leinart "have serious talent evaluation issues." There are many reasons why someone would prefer Leinart, perhaps the biggest being what kind of system you're running and what kind of quarterback you want. There are a number of reasons why a person would prefer Young as well. I don't think it's so concrete that anyone who prefers Leinart isn't good at evaluating talent.
    Yes, Nick, it's my opinion, as is anything and everything I post. I'm not saying that my say is the be all and the end all, I'm merely passionate about my position (especially when it's one I feel I actually have something to contribute about )

    I didn't ACTUALLY mean that people should be fired if selecting Leinart, I was merely stating that from my vantage point I see:

    A.) A QB that plays well within the WCO surrounded by talent who can, in fact, do well in that environment, but has quite a limited scrambling ability.

    B.) A QB that plays will within his offense surrounded by talent who can, in fact, do well in that envrionment, but has a fantastic ability to not only pick up yards being an accurate thrower (65.2% 26-10 ratio), but a fantastic runner as well accumulating around 200 a piece in both categories per game, give or take.

    Leinart may be fantastic for some systems, however I feel that if, say, N.O. picks Leinart, they'd be making a mistake as rather than taking a multiple-threat QB, they're taking a solid prospect, but one without the dimensions that Young has.

    ...but that's just me.

  6. #21
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    When you draft a QB the first thing you evaluate is his arm, then his decision-making, then the speed of his decision-making, then a bunch of other stuff. At the very bottom of the list is whether he can run or not. The NFL is a passing league, plain and simple. Running QBs either figure out how to pass and stop running (e.g., McNabb, Cunningham, etc.), or they simply lose their job (e.g., Aaron Brooks).

    Young may end up being a great QB -- I haven't watched him enough to say for sure. But any team that drafts him as a QB because of his ability to run the ball is plain nuts.

  7. #22
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    I got an idea, lets pick a TE first, then
    lets pick 3 WR in a row.

    Screw the defense, let score 100 points a game.
    :tongue:

    Get serious, Rams select a TE in the first round. The Rams have never ever picked a TE in the first round since the NFL have come up with a draft system.
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  8. #23
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Blankman17
    Yes, Nick, it's my opinion, as is anything and everything I post. I'm not saying that my say is the be all and the end all, I'm merely passionate about my position (especially when it's one I feel I actually have something to contribute about )
    I understand that, and I have enjoyed your contributions to many topics on the Clan thus far. My only point is that people should be able to disagree with your assessment on the Leinart/Young situation without having their eye for talent questioned.

    I think if you want a guy who can come in and compete for a job right away in an offense that allows him to drop back and make accurate throws all over the field, you take Leinart.

    But if you want a guy who you're willing to sit for a year or two while he continues to grow, hoping that he can develop his arm to be as dangerous as his legs, then you take Young.

    As for Leinart being a product of his system, everyone is to some degree. Look at Peyton Manning. He lost his protection against the Steelers last weekend and looked rather ordinary at times. There are very few players in this game who can take a unit on their shoulders and single-handedly make it great. A player should not be criticized for performing well with good talent around him. Is Reggie Bush a lesser receiver because he has an accurate passer throwing the ball where it needs to be? Is AJ Hawk less of a LB because Bobby Carpenter and Anthony Schlegal are playing beside him? Or vice versa? When guys put do great things on great teams, I don't think it means they're less than what we think they might be.

    Now, if they don't play up to snuff, then we have a whole other issue.
    Last edited by Nick; -01-21-2006 at 01:50 AM.
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  9. #24
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Blankman17
    IMO, Leinart is a product of his system. Take away Reggie and Lendale and an offensive line that, on the collegiate level, is the NFL equivilent and he doesn't do nearly as well. Look at how well Texas Tech QBs perform in the NFL. I suspect Matt will be much of the same.

    Look at vince take away his speed and o-line and he would be half as good and that is what it will be in the pros.he wont be able to run as much(oppenents are faster) he wont have such a good o-line and he wont be playing teams from the big 12.LOL

  10. #25
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    I understand that, and I have enjoyed your contributions to many topics on the Clan thus far. My only point is that people should be able to disagree with your assessment on the Leinart/Young situation without having their eye for talent questioned.
    Admittedly, I was in a rather fiesty mood when I posted that, so I'm willing to call a spade a spade and say that was poorly worded.

    I think if you want a guy who can come in and compete for a job right away in an offense that allows him to drop back and make accurate throws all over the field, you take Leinart.

    But if you want a guy who you're willing to sit for a year or two while he continues to grow, hoping that he can develop his arm to be as dangerous as his legs, then you take Young.
    I think a lot of this is dependent on the O-lines in front of each. Leinart might be on his butt before he can make a throw and Vince might get a yard gain.

    As for Leinart being a product of his system, everyone is to some degree. Look at Peyton Manning. He lost his protection against the Steelers last weekend and looked rather ordinary at times. There are very few players in this game who can take a unit on their shoulders and single-handedly make it great. A player should not be criticized for performing well with good talent around him. Is Reggie Bush a lesser receiver because he has an accurate passer throwing the ball where it needs to be? Is AJ Hawk less of a LB because Bobby Carpenter and Anthony Schlegal are playing beside him? Or vice versa? When guys put do great things on great teams, I don't think it means they're less than what we think they might be.
    Oh sure, everyone is to some degree, but when I say that, I speak more in terms of the Red Raider QBs, but in this case, I speak more to the talent around Leinart making him look better than he is, IMO again. Take a TT QB out his system with his 6,000 yards per season and what do ya get?

    Now, if they don't play up to snuff, then we have a whole other issue.
    Too true. I think we can agree on this: I feel both Matt and Vince are quality prospects. I do not know if either will turn out that way, but they both offer something different and I think that will affect where they go.

  11. #26
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by rams_fan81
    Look at vince take away his speed and o-line and he would be half as good and that is what it will be in the pros.he wont be able to run as much(oppenents are faster) he wont have such a good o-line and he wont be playing teams from the big 12.LOL

    Well, you can't really take away his speed, but take away his O-line and it doesn't matter much because, heck, USC did!

    Also, you make a valid point where he won't have such a good OL, but he won't be playing Pac-10 teams either, so he's got that goin' for 'em. Which is nice.

  12. #27
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    pac-10 doesn't play defense at all either

  13. #28
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    when i said take away his speed i meant that he won't be so much fatser than everyone else

  14. #29
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    Re: Kiper's First Round Mock Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Linehan has done a pretty good job with his TEs....Kleinsasser, Wiggins, McMichael....all were an intrigal part of their team's offense. Either Manu steps up or we'll be looking for a receiving threat at TE.]
    I wouldn't attribute McMichael entirely to Linehan. He was playing pretty well before Linehan got there. I liked what he did in Minnesota, though. I do expect we'll see him deploy a pass-catching tight end much more than we've seen recently, but the Rams would have to be utterly daft to go for a tight end with their first pick. There's just no way with the state of the defense.

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