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Thread: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

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    Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    NFL Draft Rumors: Lions Discussing Trading Ndamukong Suh to Draft Jadeveon Clowney - Acme Packing Company

    According to this random site (though there are Twitter references), the Lions want to try to trade Suh and move into position to get Clowney.

    If the Rams could deal into a position to have the following front four, I think we're leaps and bounds from the second best DL:

    Quinn - Suh - Brockers - Long

    The reason I don't see this happening is two-fold; first, I think he costs us too much (contract and trade). Second, I think Fisher prefers a rotation at DL, and I see Suh as more of a run-stopper that comes out in obvious passing situations for a bit more speed.

    That being said, what would you guys be willing to part with?

    Draft day special; Rams give #2 + Mid-draft Pick for #10 + Suh [ Leaving us with #10 and #13 ]

    #13 + Mid-draft Pick for Suh [ Leaving the Lions with #10 + #13, which would be enough to move up to the top 3 for Clowney ]?

    Imagine the second scenario where we end up drafting Clowney at #2 anyway. Sure, we fill luxury before need, which is a scary proposition, but the line would be:

    Quinn - Suh - Brockers - Clowney [ Long rotates in for Suh in passing and with DE's for breathers ]

    Overall, our best option is to build our secondary up and strengthen our interior OL, but I wanted to entertain the thought with my fellow clansmen.


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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    OK so this comes from Scott Bishoff, whom as far as I can tell is a writer for the Bleacher Report. This is to be taken with an absolute grain of salt.

    WITH THIS SAID, let's entertain the idea. Suh is maybe a top ten defensive player in the NFL. He also plays a different position to Brockers. I don't know what sort of trade scenario this would involve, but if we could get Suh, restructure him, and still retain two first round picks I'd be interested definitely.

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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    I understand he's controversial and many believe he's dirty, but I think Suh is a phenomenal talent and has truly lived up to the domination many of us believe he'd bring to the NFL game. I think he'd would probably excel even more under a coach like Fisher who IMO would be better able to keep Suh in check than Jim Schwartz was.

    Having said that, I don't think the Rams are in a position to acquire him, mostly because of cap/financial reasons. Here is Over the Cap's write-up on Suh and a trade situation...

    The Cost of Trading Ndamukong Suh
    by Jason Fitzgerald

    According to Scott Bischoff the Detroit Lions are discussing the possibility of trading DT Ndamukong Suh in order to move up in the draft.

    Suh has one of the most unique contract situations in the NFL. Between draft status and poor salary cap management by the Lions, Suhís cap charge in 2014 is $22.4 million. Suh will be a free agent in 2015, but because he has a voidable year for 2015 in his contract, failing to re-sign Suh would result in a charge of $9.737 million against the salary cap in 2015. Due to the heavy proration in that 2015 year the cost to cut or trade Suh this season would leave the Lions with $19.5 million in dead cap. The Lions canít franchise Suh due to the cost so they can not even threaten to block him from free agency. Suh, who recently switched agents and wants a new contract, has all the leverage in the world to force the Lions to accept a player friendly contract.

    Suhís cap charge is nearly $7 million higher than the next highest defensive tackle, Gerald McCoy of the Buccaneers. McCoy was selected one spot behind Suh in the draft, but Tampa did not touch his contract to create the type of leverage that Suh has with the Lions. Defensive tackle is not a premier pay position (the highest veteran contract belongs to the Bengalsí Geno Atkins at $10.665 million per year with just $15 million fully guaranteed) and teams should have been aware that by drafting the position highly they were already locking themselves in at a top of the market price for a player who never stepped foot in the NFL. Any reworking of the contract will just make the situation unbearable and the Lions did it twice with Suh.

    Suh is likely looking at the teams salary cap situation and asking for a contract that would increase, perhaps substantially, from his current $12.9 million a year contract. The Lions have already gone well beyond the norms of a positional salary with wide receiver Calvin Johnson so Suh should believe they would do the same for him. However, with so much money tied up already in Johnson and QB Matthew Stafford, it is arguable that the Lions can be competitive for the long haul at these salary levels. They may view the situation with Suh as one that cant be resolved and thus would be better for them to move forward with a much lower cost rookie player at an impact position on the roster.

    While it is easy to get wrapped up in the $19.5 million dead cap charge that Suh would leave the Lions with, if we play the scenario out it Detroit would save significant cap dollars by trading Suh. If the Lions allow Suh to play out his contract and he becomes a free agent the Lions will spend a total of $32.15 million in cap dollars on Suh for just the 2014 season. That total is made up of the enormous cap figure in 2014 and the dead money in 2015. If they trade Suh the team would take on a $19.475 million hit this year and have Suh off the books in 2015. They save $12.675 million over a two year period.

    If the deal would be something like Suh and the number 10 pick for the number 2 pick in the draft they would add in the ballpark of an additional $1.8 million in 2014 and $2.3 million in 2015 to their anticipated draft allotments in terms of cap spending. All told the team would create around $8 million in additional cap space over the two year period rather than having Suh and the 10th pick in the draft. In terms of cash they would avoid paying Suh his $12.55 million salary while picking up around an extra $7 million in bonus commitments, a savings of around $5.5 million in cash. These are real gains for the Lions especially since the cost of an extension for Suh would now be gone.

    The other possibility, if the Lions are floating this rumor, is that Detroit is using the rumor to let Suh know that they are not afraid of the salary cap charges associated with moving him off the team. If Suh did become a free agent in 2015 I have a hard time believing he would make that much more than Atkins on the open market. With Detroit he has leverage but elsewhere he will not. This might be Detroitís best strategy to bring him to the negotiating table with realistic expectations.

    If they are serious about trading Suh, there are few teams who could take on the cost. The team acquiring Suh would have to set aside $12.675 million in cap space for him. There are 14 teams that currently have the room to take him on. The teams with draft selections higher than the Lions that have the space are the Texans, Jaguars, Browns, Buccaneers, and Bills, with only the top three having premier draft selections. If a team could sign Suh to an extension that could extend the pool, but if Suh is set on a price he may not come down quick enough to allow that to happen quickly.
    The Rams will be looking to give Robert Quinn a huge extension within the next year or two, and they'll likely have to give Bradford a sizable extension within that time frame as well. I'm simply not sure I see how they could afford to give Suh $13+ million per year, with those two contracts looming. The danger is that we'd find ourselves in a similar position as the Lions now, with a decent amount of the team's entire cap devoted to three players.

    But I'm not cap expert, and maybe the Rams find a way to make it work. I think he'd be a force on the inside of this line, where Langford, though solid himself, is probably the weakest part of this unit.

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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sauceman View Post
    Second, I think Fisher prefers a rotation at DL, and I see Suh as more of a run-stopper that comes out in obvious passing situations for a bit more speed.
    According to Pro Football Focus, since entering the league, Suh has been Top 5 in snaps for a DT three out of four years. The year he wasn't, he was Top 10 in snaps. He's not coming off the field.
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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    Interesting hypothetical...

    I suppose that if:

    1. Detroit would offer Suh and the 10th pick for the 2nd pick and a Day 3 selection,

    2. The Rams can afford Suh's contract; and

    3. The Rams can still sign Quinn to a long term deal...

    ... then I'd be interested.

    That's a lot of "ifs."
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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    I was a fan of his coming out and thought the Rams may actually take the guy. Having watched him as a pro... Cough Cough player: I would have to pass now! Would rather keep our picks and draft a guy we can mold into a Ram/Fisher/Williams guy not this guy. Who by the way is not showing up so far in Detroit thus their wanting to dump a guy who is supposed to be a team leader! I think he is more head ache than great player at this point and not sure he can turn this around. He is physical and not just percieved to be dirty but is completely dirt as has been caught on camera multiple times. I think he is almost another Haynesworth. I would love to hear what Fish/Snead think of this guy! Good luck trading him Detroit this will be fun to watch... LOL

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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    I'm not saying we have to go back to the 4 pillars. But I would pass on him, the guy just seems like a sociopath as a human being. Not just a dirtbag.
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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    Ndamukong Suh has 27.5 sacks over the past 4 years. He isn't going anywhere on 3rd downs. That's when the guy is at his best.

    Suh is absolutely dominant and I'd love to have him on this line, but there is simply no way we could afford him (unless you want to cut Bradford and draft a QB at #10)...

    Just a few years ago I was dying to have Suh on our team.. Now that it's an actual possibility it seems weird. I'd still love him on our D-line, but the cap is too much of an issue.


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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Randart View Post
    I was a fan of his coming out and thought the Rams may actually take the guy. Having watched him as a pro... Cough Cough player: I would have to pass now! Would rather keep our picks and draft a guy we can mold into a Ram/Fisher/Williams guy not this guy. Who by the way is not showing up so far in Detroit thus their wanting to dump a guy who is supposed to be a team leader! I think he is more head ache than great player at this point and not sure he can turn this around. He is physical and not just percieved to be dirty but is completely dirt as has been caught on camera multiple times. I think he is almost another Haynesworth. I would love to hear what Fish/Snead think of this guy! Good luck trading him Detroit this will be fun to watch... LOL
    If Fish believes he could control him, then a reluctant ok. I don't like the guy - and as others have said, he's been caught on film doing stuff that just downright stinks. Dirty player is an understatement IMO, Ruff Rams take may be closer ..

    I should confess here that I would have loved for the Rams to draft Suh when we had the chance. Since then, I have been glad we didn't. If we do somehow end up with him, I'd be for keeping him in a cage and only letting him out when we play the Whiners and Hags ..
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    I think Suh is a complete ass, but I'd love to have him. That said, I've read that the Lions would take a huge cap hit if they got rid of him, so I'm not sure he's going anywhere.
    Last edited by r8rh8rmike; -04-24-2014 at 02:04 PM.
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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    The guy is a disruptive force (both on and off the field), though he's yet to match his rookie campaign. It'd be a great Madden trade, but that cap hit could be debilitating. And just how much of a net negative is he in the lockerroom?

    Lots of questions that need to be answered, even without the cap hit.
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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    That is fun to talk about but they should be talking to the Texans not us. Not many at this point think they will pass on him for a QB but you never know. I'm not a fan at all, as Mike said he's an ass. Not sure our locker room can control him.
    Last edited by Rambos; -04-24-2014 at 02:36 PM.

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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sauceman View Post
    NFL Draft Rumors: Lions Discussing Trading Ndamukong Suh to Draft Jadeveon Clowney - Acme Packing Company

    According to this random site (though there are Twitter references), the Lions want to try to trade Suh and move into position to get Clowney.

    If the Rams could deal into a position to have the following front four, I think we're leaps and bounds from the second best DL:

    Quinn - Suh - Brockers - Long

    The reason I don't see this happening is two-fold; first, I think he costs us too much (contract and trade). Second, I think Fisher prefers a rotation at DL, and I see Suh as more of a run-stopper that comes out in obvious passing situations for a bit more speed.

    That being said, what would you guys be willing to part with?

    Draft day special; Rams give #2 + Mid-draft Pick for #10 + Suh [ Leaving us with #10 and #13 ]

    #13 + Mid-draft Pick for Suh [ Leaving the Lions with #10 + #13, which would be enough to move up to the top 3 for Clowney ]?

    Imagine the second scenario where we end up drafting Clowney at #2 anyway. Sure, we fill luxury before need, which is a scary proposition, but the line would be:

    Quinn - Suh - Brockers - Clowney [ Long rotates in for Suh in passing and with DE's for breathers ]

    Overall, our best option is to build our secondary up and strengthen our interior OL, but I wanted to entertain the thought with my fellow clansmen.
    Whooooo boy I have a feeling the Lions would be pissed if they traded Suh to get Clowney and we blocked them from getting Clowney. Not that they could do anything about if it they didn't trade up with the Texans, but I'll bet they wouldn't talk to Snead again about anything.
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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    According to Pro Football Focus, since entering the league, Suh has been Top 5 in snaps for a DT three out of four years. The year he wasn't, he was Top 10 in snaps. He's not coming off the field.
    I guess I overemphasized his need to come out. I think paying a ton of money for a 2-down DT would be rediculous. I know him more as a run stopper, so I assumed rotating in a DE in obvious passing downs would be an option. That being said, I've neither watched much of Suh nor looked at stats.

    Knowing that he's a complete DT and effective in all phases at his position makes him that much more of a prize. I also think that between Williams and Fisher, we have the leadership and experience to harness some of his dirtiness while retaining his nastiness.

    That being said, it's more of a pipe dream. We have arguably a top 2-3 DL as it is. Strengthening a weakness is more important than strengthening a, well, strength.

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    Re: Lions shopping Suh (Warning: Very unrealistic scenarios ahead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sauceman View Post

    I also think that between Williams and Fisher, we have the leadership and experience to harness some of his dirtiness while retaining his nastiness.

    .
    In Williams case he might want to steer clear of any dirtiness given his recent history. Although maybe he has an F you attitude to the league and that is exactly the type of player he covets to this day. My guess is on the former though.

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