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Thread: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

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    McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    By Nick Wagoner | ESPN.com


    As we continue rolling along toward the 2014 NFL draft, mock drafts are certain to change and so will the opinions that go along with them. But I believe it's good to change the mocks because that can give you an idea of the many different scenarios that could play out.

    To this point, ESPN draft experts Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay have been pretty consistent in sending a top offensive lineman to the St. Louis Rams. McShay's third crack at a mock draft Insider dropped earlier Thursday, and I like it in the sense he gives Rams fans another way to look at how the draft plays out. And, honestly, I don't think it's all that far fetched that the Rams' first round could play out the way McShay has it.

    With the No. 2 pick, McShay sends South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney, the consensus best player in the draft to the Rams. Here's a snippet of his logic on the matter:

    "If Clowney doesn't go No. 1 to the Texans, the Rams will be ecstatic for two reasons: One, it would drive up the trade value for the No. 2 pick (at No. 6, the Falcons are one potential trade partner); and two, if the Rams don't get a trade offer that makes sense, they'll have the opportunity to take the best player in this draft and transform a good, young defense into an exceptional one."

    My thoughts: This is a discussion we started having in this space back in January and it's one that probably isn't going to go away for awhile. I completely agree with McShay that the Rams would still prefer to get a sweetheart trade offer for this pick and if Clowney is on the board, it would only bolster the value of the choice. I also agree the Rams will have a hard time passing on him if he's available. Yes, the Rams are loaded on the defensive line but a potential game-changer at a position that is extremely important would be difficult to say no to, especially given Jeff Fisher's affinity for pass-rushers. Would they prefer to trade down and grab a top offensive lineman? Probably. But they can't really go wrong with Clowney, either.

    With the No. 13 pick, McShay sends Louisville safety Calvin Pryor to the Rams to fill a gaping hole at the back end of the secondary. Here's a snippet of McShay's thoughts:

    "Rams fans probably don't love me for taking two defensive players with their first-rounders in this mock, but they need a safety and Pryor is a good value here as the top-ranked safety on our board. He is a hammer in run support and shows good range in zone coverage."

    My thoughts: While I don't disagree with the idea of the Rams taking a safety -- they need one -- I'm not sure I agree Pryor is a good value. The top two safeties are both on the board here, which would give the Rams a shot to grab the best one in the draft, but I'm not so sure either Pryor or Alabama's Ha Ha Clinton-Dix are top-15 caliber players. I'm also not convinced that Fisher and the Rams prioritize safety enough to draft one this early. McShay is absolutely right in that some Rams fans hate the idea of going defense/defense with their two first-round picks, though I've seen some advocating the idea of "finishing" the defense. I'm more inclined to think the Rams could move down from this spot or, if they're going to use it on a defensive back, go for the more premium position of corner instead of safety. Either way, the Rams do need to score more points and be better offensively. I don't think it's too far-fetched for the Rams to draft two defensive players in the first round, but it would certainly make it far more difficult on an offense that desperately needs an influx of talent on the offensive line and a top wide receiver.


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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    Ehhh idk, I love the Clowney pick but I think 13 is too high to draft Pryor
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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    Pryor at #13 IS too high!

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    I'm not against double dipping on the defense, but we've had a strong defense for years, where they would keep us close for three quarters and then finally get exhausted and we'd lose a blowbout because we'd give up 17 points in the fourth quarter. You aren't seeing a turn of the century Ravens or Bucs team win the Super Bowl now(you could say that the Seahawks did it this year, but their offense was at least legitimate, unlike the other two).

    We need an offense that can put up 26+ points a game to go with the defense which can hold teams when they aren't able to run down our throats because they have a three possession lead. I don't know if we have a single offensive lineman put down with ink as a starter in any position yet. Do we have a firm starting outside wide receiver? I love the size that Quick brings, but I'm not sure about him. Givens dropped off the face of the planet. Pettis? Stedman? You all know that I hate the endless cycle of draft another rookie and be pissed that he's not an all-pro immediately, but I see some good slot guys, and maybe some backups outside, but I don't see a quality outside starting tandem yet.

    Lastly, I don't mind going defense, but we need a CB and we need a FS. What we don't need is a pass rusher at the top of the draft, unless we're going to get rid of another piece. Now, if we could turn Quinn or Long in for Megatron or for Gordon or a 2007 version of Randy Moss... sure. But unless Clowney can line up on the Oline, outside or at safety, I don't want him, sorry. Having three elite pass rushers is great, if you have get and hold a lead. Not having a credible offense or a back end to defend the pass doesn't do much to present pass rush opportunities. We already lead the league in sacks per passing play, imagine if we actually held a lead...
    I believe!

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    What a great position we're in this year to make the necessary additions to get this team to the next level.

    This particular mock draft chooses the least favorite route of mine, defense/defense. While I'd like to see us use at least one of the two picks on offense, it's hard to argue against adding two legitimate prospects to the defense. Two prospects that could potentially help take this defense to the elite level.

    It's good to know that even if the Rams go the last route I'd personally take, it could still easily pay huge dividends.

    It's going to be pretty hard for the Rams to lose come draft day. We're in the driver's seat in terms of the first round. Can't wait!

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    I don't see either happening. Evans or one of the CBs at 13, even if they move down I can see Fisher taking Donald over the Ss.

    Also if Clowney is there at 2 we are moving down. Can almost guarantee it. I could be wrong and proven wrong with his production, but can't see drafting at what is already your best position.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    I'll wait till after free agency has been going. Pointless at this point to debate the draft we haven't seen anything yet from free agency.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    I'd love Clowney followed by Donald at 13. Byrd or TJ Ward in free agency. Bet that'd be the first time in history the 2 Safties on a team were named TJ.

    Anyway, for those believing we need to score more points, I'd say that it is just as important to give up fewer points.

    Who wouldn't love to score more points? Makes for an exciting brand of football.

    That said, Seattle just proved to the world that defense wins championships. By giving up a measly 14 points a game during the regular season, they were primed to shut down the highest scoring offense in the history of the NFL, in the Superbowl. And that's exactly what they did.

    What's even more telling is, their defense would've won this game even had the offense and special teams taken the day off.

    If we take a look at what we averaged on offense (21.8 points per game), we are closer to putting up as many points (26.1 points per game) as Seattle's offense than we were in limiting opponents (Seattle 14.1, Us 22.8).

    So based on the point totals alone, it's easy to see that our defense is further behind Seattle's defense than our offense was behind their offense, even though most would consider our defense the strongsuit of the team.

    In spite of the perception, the point totals suggests that it's the defense that needs the most improving, at least when compared to the Superbowl Champions.

    Aside from that, there shouldn't be a fan here, who wasn't encouraged by what they saw from Sam Bradford just prior to his injury. His healthy return, along with the re-signing of Saffold and Long's return from injury, will almost certainly mean a higher scoring average on offense.

    So needless to say, I stand firmly entrenched on the defense first, side of the ledger, if we can not trade down.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -03-07-2014 at 11:46 PM.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    If we take a look at what we averaged on offense (21.8 points per game) we are closer to putting up as many points (26.1 points per game) as Seattle's offense than we were in limiting opponents (Seattle 14.1, Us 22.8).

    Aside from that, there shouldn't be a fan here, who wasn't encouraged by what they saw from Sam Bradford just prior to his injury. His healthy return, along with the re-signing of Saffold and Long's return from injury, will almost certainly mean a higher scoring average on offense.
    Sam's return from injury and if he's able to stay healthy will be an upgrade. If the line is able to stay healthy, an even bigger if than Sam staying healthy, will be an upgrade on offense. But I think the biggest upgrade of all to the Rams has already happened. Greg Williams is a touchdown a game upgrade to the defense in scoring. There is no possible way he will have our secondary playing off the line and begging the other team to pass on us. He alone will be a bigger upgrade than Clowney and Donald will provide.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    The draft that has been mocked there would "transform a good, young defense into an exceptional one"

    However, the reason for that is the filling of the gaping hole at safety with the #13 pick, and not taking Clowney at #2. Getting another defensive end will not help the secondary cover. If they struggled with Robert Quinn and Chris Long, they will struggle with Clowney and Quinn.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    I completely agree with McShay that the Rams would still prefer to get a sweetheart trade offer for this pick and if Clowney is on the board, it would only bolster the value of the choice.
    I think the Rams would prefer a sweetheart trade offer period. With the four players on the board that can help us and we all know who they are, moving back to say six and getting more picks and one of those players has to be the first option.

    I also agree the Rams will have a hard time passing on him if he's available.
    As much as I like him I'm not sure it would be hard to pass on him if all we could get is a another pick in this draft. To have a chance at the best WR and or the best OT and get another draft pick, that does not seem like it would be hard to take that if that's all we could get.

    If we added a FS or CB in free agency and resigned Saffold then I could see us double dipping on the defense in round one. The WR class is so deep that it can be address in round two if need be.

    I totally agree with Fortuninerhater's take on the defense. I think we are not as good on the defense as many think. We have been a leader in sacks but that's about it.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post

    Greg Williams is a touchdown a game upgrade to the defense in scoring. There is no possible way he will have our secondary playing off the line and begging the other team to pass on us. He alone will be a bigger upgrade than Clowney and Donald will provide.
    A touchdown a game huh? That's pretty optimistic if you ask me, considering the reason why our CBs played so far off the WRs is because we weren't confident in our Safeties being able to cover their backs.

    Without an upgrade there, I doubt Greg Williams makes anywhere near the impact you speak of.

    Conversely, if we are, able to significantly upgrade the secondary and add two of the top 5 defensive players in this draft, there is absolutely no reason why this is not a top 5 defense, IMO.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Aside from that, there shouldn't be a fan here, who wasn't encouraged by what they saw from Sam Bradford just prior to his injury. His healthy return, along with the re-signing of Saffold and Long's return from injury, will almost certainly mean a higher scoring average on offense.

    So needless to say, I stand firmly entrenched on the defense first, side of the ledger, if we can not trade down.
    I understand you really want Clowney, but it's naive to continue to ignore Long's injury history, along with his newly torn ACL, and the fact that Saffold will hit free agency.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    A touchdown a game huh? That's pretty optimistic if you ask me, considering the reason why our CBs played so far off the WRs is because we weren't confident in our Safeties being able to cover their backs.

    Without an upgrade there, I doubt Greg Williams makes anywhere near the impact you speak of.

    Conversely, if we are, able to significantly upgrade the secondary and add two of the top 5 defensive players in this draft, there is absolutely no reason why this is not a top 5 defense, IMO.
    We both know that it's all conjecture at this point and nothing is provable. Who's to say a 1st round DT a 1st round FS or a 1st round CB will be a better upgrade than a 3rd rounder? The CB people seem to be clamoring over that we should sign to fix our CB position was a 4th round pick. Who's to say a 1st round OT and a 2nd round OG will fix our patch work and injury prone offensive line. We're all just expressing what we think would be best for the team we all love. That's what makes this time of year so fun. We're all experts, we're rarely ever right, none of us are truly insiders into the situation, but we'll never stop doing it cause it's so damned fun to guess at it and project our wishes on to the team.

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    Re: McShay Mock 3.0 reax: Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusRam View Post
    I understand you really want Clowney, but it's naive to continue to ignore Long's injury history, along with his newly torn ACL, and the fact that Saffold will hit free agency.
    It's naive for you to think I've ignored Long's injury history or the fact that Saffold will hit free agency.

    In fact, I've spoken continually this offseason about different ways to upgrade the Oline, just not with the 2nd pick.

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