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Thread: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    I think it's best we keep our personal views on homosexuality out of this.

    Personally, I don't think his draft stock will change and if it does, shame on the team who'll benefit the most of drafting him.
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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    Quote Originally Posted by Flippin' Ram View Post
    I think it's best we keep our personal views on homosexuality out of this.

    Personally, I don't think his draft stock will change and if it does, shame on the team who'll benefit the most of drafting him.
    Now, wouldn't that be interesting.

    Just so happens that the media, by nature of MS's own personal statement / announcement, has himself made it practically impossible to keep the homo views out of the stock tickers and overall draft value. A prospect's character has typically been key in evaluating the worth of picking a rookie, yes? Yes. Youngsters' mistakes and red flags, or lack thereof, are reviewed. Sports stats. Academic accomplishments, etc.

    Many collegiate football players have great résumés and attributes BUT, they sometimes carry some ugly baggage that team owners and coaches must carefully inspect (e.g., potential team distractor directly related / connected to his sexual orientation).

    Why should MS be any different in this respect? Right now this kid is being scrutinized very, very closely, precisely because of his "intangibles", ergo, looking into his personal life as well.

    After all, that's some considerable baggage.

    Last edited by RealRam; -02-11-2014 at 01:28 AM. Reason: Ram

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Here are some questions I'd want to have answered before I'd consider drafting Michael Sam:

    1. Can he play OLB in a 4-3?
    2. How fast is he?
    3. How strong is he?
    4. Will he be available in Rounds 3-5 (part of draft where I'd consider looking at OLBs)?

    That's pretty much it.
    BTW, these are some of the 4-3 OLB prospects I'd much rather look into in the Rd 3-5 group.

    Jeremiah Attaochu--- Georgia Tech Sr 6-3 252
    Adrian Hubbard ------ Alabama rJr 6-6 255
    Dee Ford -------------- Auburn Sr 6-2 240
    Devon Kennard ------ So. Calif. rSr 6-3 250
    Christian Kirksey ---- Iowa Sr 6-2 237
    Ronald Powell ------- Florida rJr 6-3 240
    Prince Shembo ------ Notre Dame Sr 6-2 250
    Jordan Tripp --------- Montana rSr 6-3 237
    Kyle Van Noy -------- BYU Sr 6-3 240
    Jordan Zumwalt ---- UCLA Sr 6-4 235

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post
    BTW, these are some of the 4-3 OLB prospects I'd much rather look into in the Rd 3-5 group.

    Jeremiah Attaochu--- Georgia Tech Sr 6-3 252
    Adrian Hubbard ------ Alabama rJr 6-6 255
    Dee Ford -------------- Auburn Sr 6-2 240
    Devon Kennard ------ So. Calif. rSr 6-3 250
    Christian Kirksey ---- Iowa Sr 6-2 237
    Ronald Powell ------- Florida rJr 6-3 240
    Prince Shembo ------ Notre Dame Sr 6-2 250
    Jordan Tripp --------- Montana rSr 6-3 237
    Kyle Van Noy -------- BYU Sr 6-3 240
    Jordan Zumwalt ---- UCLA Sr 6-4 235
    I'm curious, do you have these players ranker higher because they're better players, or because they're not gay?
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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    I'm curious, do you have these players ranker higher because they're better players, or because they're not gay?
    From the little online research I did on both the OLBs I've mentioned and MS, the above list of 10 seems to be preferable, better quality players. Not certain of course.

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post
    From the little online research I did on both the OLBs I've mentioned and MS, the above list of 10 seems to be preferable, better quality players. Not certain of course.
    I agree with some on the list, especially Kyle Van Noy… I think he's going to be a good one

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    A few more specifics in addition to strengths, weaknesses that I've read in their profile (see sources below) for prospects being projected at Rd. 3-5.

    NOTE: Two or three of these OLB are also stand-up 'DE' rushers. Some OLB have also played 3-4 defense.

    Jeremiah Attaochu DE/OLB -- GTech Sr 6-3 252 [Projected 40: 4.76 // Projected Rd: 5]
    Adrian Hubbard ---------------- Alabama rJr 6-6 255 [Projected 40: 4.76 // Projected Rd: 5]
    Dee Ford DE/OLB ------------- Auburn Sr 6-2 240 [Projected 40: 4.6 // Projected Rd: 3-5]
    Devon Kennard ---------------- SUC rSr 6-3 250 [Projected 40: 4.9 // Projected Rd: 4-5]
    Christian Kirksey -------------- Iowa Sr 6-2 237 [Projected 40: 4.76 // Projected Rd: 4-5]
    Ronald Powell ----------------- Florida rJr 6-3 240 [Projected 40: 4.73 // Projected Rd: 3-5]
    Prince Shembo ---------------- Notre Dame Sr 6-2 250 [Projected 40: 4.7 // Projected Rd: 4-5]
    Jordan Tripp ------------------- Montana rSr 6-3 237 [Projected 40: 4.67 // Projected Rd: 5]
    Kyle Van Noy ------------------ BYU Sr 6-3 240 [Projected 40: 4.76 // Projected Rd: 3-5]
    Jordan Zumwalt --------------- UCLA Sr 6-4 235 [Projected 40: 4.7 // Projected Rd: 4-5]

    Michael Sam DE/OLB ------- Mizzou 6-2 254 [Projected 40: 4.78 // Projected Rd: 4-5]


    Sources: CBS Sports; ESPN; Mock NFL Draft; NFL.com; Player's school; Walter Football
    Last edited by RealRam; -02-11-2014 at 03:12 AM. Reason: Tyop

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    ...Kyle Van Noy: I think he's going to be a good one.
    Yes, should at least be good depth, maybe developing on ST.


    BYU LB Kyle Van Noy keeping busy at Senior Bowl

    By Dan Greenspan
    NFL College Football 24/7 writer
    Published: Jan. 22, 2014 at 07:20 p.m.
    Updated: Jan. 23, 2014 at 12:01 p.m

    Kyle Van Noy made his name as an outside linebacker in BYU's 3-4 base defense, but is getting to show off his range at the Reese's Senior Bowl.

    Now PlayingNFL: College Football 24/7CFB 24/7: Senior Bowl analysis
    Van Noy has worked out at linebacker and defensive end this week under Jacksonville Jaguars head coach Gus Bradley.

    "It's hard," Van Noy told the College Football 24/7 podcast. "You got to learn a lot of assignments in a little amount of time. You learn something new everyday. You get to play with different players, learn different techniques from those players, and continue to improve."

    Bradley's 4-3 alignment might actually be a good fit for Van Noy (6-foot-3, 245 pounds), as it will often employ a "Leo" or stand-up defensive end. That was the role Clay Matthews played at USC under Pete Carroll before transitioning to outside linebacker for the Green Bay Packers.

    Van Noy has the credentials to be a force behind the line of scrimmage at the next level, totaling 62 tackles for loss and 26 sacks in his college career. He also had 11 forced fumbles, seven interceptions and three blocked kicks for the Cougars.

    "Just trying to be disruptive has been something I have done since I was little, and I have always tried to take it to the next step each time," Van Noy said.

    And while Anthony Barr, Khalil Mack and C.J. Mosley have dominated the conversation at outside linebacker in the first round of mock drafts, Van Noy could end up having just as big an impact.


    [Bold mine]
    Last edited by RealRam; -02-11-2014 at 03:09 AM. Reason: Tyop

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    The media has made this some huge courageous story that they think we should all care about. Frankly I don't care one bit how he lives his personal life. If Snead and Fisher think he can contribute to the team I hope they draft him. All I care about is a player contributing to the team and keeping out of legal trouble and keeping out of trouble with the NFL so they're able to play productively for the team. The media however is spinning this so that just because he came out of the closet we have to hear about this all day every day and this guy should be our new favorite player. If he becomes a Ram and can play I'll cheer for him whether I agree with his lifestyle or not.

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    I thought about not replying to this for a long time, but I have decided to.

    I am not a fan of homosexuality...I also don't care about it, not even a little bit. What someone chooses to do (regardless of whether or not homosexuality is an inborn feeling, acting upon it sexually is certainly a choice). What I care about is if he can play and is a decent person.

    What annoys me: That this has suddenly become a huge deal. That this guy I've never even heard of until now is suddenly "brave" and "a leader" because he said he was gay. I don't care if he's gay, I think we would have figured it out when he started dating other men. I don't see the reason this needs to be announced and discussed.

    What I like: This guy sounds like a reasonable rotational player at DE. I think a flyer on him in the late 6th round would be an interesting idea. We could plug him in as part of our rotation and use him as depth, if there are not better options out there of course.

    This guy should not be treated differently because of his sexual orientation, I think that's the entire argument...but people are already treating him differently by praising him as a grand leader...not because of his on field leadership, but because he said "hey guys, I'm gay."
    "I've been saving the Universe for over a thousand years. I figure it owes me just this once."

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    But let's not underestimate how difficult that is. Being the first person to do that. And in the US too. We have already seen someone in this thread display that they find homosexuality "sickening". Quite frankly I find that a shocking view. If you find homosexuality makes you sick, maybe you need to have a look at yourself before anyone else.

    When people say Sam is a "leader" they don't mean he is a team leader or whatever. But he is "leading" the move to a more accepting NFL and american culture simply by his act, whether he meant to or not. You say we would have found out when he started dating other men, but he already said that he came out because one of the things he hated was having to hide himself when on dates with his boyfriend in case the coaches or players saw.

    Now he might not get drafted by some teams. Some teams with inexperienced head coaches may not be able to handle the exposure that it would bring. But he is just a football player at the end of the day and should be treated like any other. Straight footballers get to make their sexuality known without incident so why can't the same be done by non-straight players? I would hope if the Rams don't take him it would be because he isn't a player that we need or fits our team, because to be honest he might not be.

    But remember the Rams were the first team to have black players. And with an experienced coach like Jeff Fisher I think the Rams are one team where Michael Sam could play in the NFL without this overshadowing his career.
    ramsbruce and DE_Ramfan like this.

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    But where is the real story? Ok, let me try this another way...

    Scouts knew he was gay, or they would have found out pretty quickly, his teammates mostly knew he was gay (from what I've been hearing anyway)...so...

    Chances are good if he never makes the announcement, this never becomes a media thing, I don't hear about him until he's drafted.

    Instead I hear about him, there are at least four stories on NFL.com about him...and almost all of them are about his sexuality. Even this very thread is about his sexuality.

    What is more distracting, his teammates knowing, or everyone knowing and not remotely having a clue about his football ability?

    I am almost positive that when he gets drafted in the fifth or sixth round, the Media will proclaim it was because he's gay.

    I want to know what the guy can do on the field and if he will get arrested. That's where my concerns about a player end, I don't want to know how many women (or men) they sleep with or how many babies they have out of wedlock.
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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenWing View Post
    But where is the real story? Ok, let me try this another way...

    Scouts knew he was gay, or they would have found out pretty quickly, his teammates mostly knew he was gay (from what I've been hearing anyway)...so...

    Chances are good if he never makes the announcement, this never becomes a media thing, I don't hear about him until he's drafted.

    Instead I hear about him, there are at least four stories on NFL.com about him...and almost all of them are about his sexuality. Even this very thread is about his sexuality.

    What is more distracting, his teammates knowing, or everyone knowing and not remotely having a clue about his football ability?

    I am almost positive that when he gets drafted in the fifth or sixth round, the Media will proclaim it was because he's gay.

    I want to know what the guy can do on the field and if he will get arrested. That's where my concerns about a player end, I don't want to know how many women (or men) they sleep with or how many babies they have out of wedlock.
    There has been a media circus. And that in itself is wrong. A gay man shouldn't be applauded for coming out, it should just be natural. And 90% of the people who have talked about this story have said "so what" to the announcement

    But just think what it would have been like for Michael Sam if he was in the NFL, and was photographed by tabloid press with another man. The rumours and the media circus surrounding that would be an even bigger distraction if he was already established in a locker room.

    Now it shouldn't be the case. It really shouldn't. Who a guy sleeps with is not my concern, be it man or woman, or trans or whatever. But we have yet to get to the point in society where someone saying "I'm gay" isn't considered news.

    I think Michael Sam came out and made the announcement because he wanted it to be on his own terms, not following some rumours on message boards or in the tabloid press. You saw what rumours about his personal life did to Manti Te'o, and he still hasn't recovered from that.

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    The issue I have with Sam is this:
    According to the report, his teammates and many other people at Mizzou knew he was gay. As mentioned previously, scouts either already know or would have found out he was gay. So, why did he "come out"?

    Simple - for attention. It's no one's business but Sam's as to what legal activities he participates in.

    There's already enough players with a "LOOK AT ME" attitude. We don't need another one in the NFL.

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    Re: Michael Sam: Some Questions I'd Want Answered Before Drafting Him

    He's George Selvie, with more awards and "the gay."

    And any one thinks he did this to draw attention to himself is naive. Surely there have gay players in the past. But whatever you think of homosexuality, we are in world where being openly gay in some institutions for the first time is "story worthy." Maybe not to you, but clearly to many others. What he did was the smart move, from a player and PR perspective, because we're talking about this now and less later. This is the media world we live in.
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