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Thread: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Firstly, anyone talking about his sexual preference as "baggage' needs to go back to the dark ages.

    It's no more baggage than a player like Joe Namath had, bagging "birds" in a career of one night stands, probably many times more than one in bed with him at a time.

    Magic Johnson got AIDS, and as far as I know, he is straight. he got it by being so promiscuous, he was trying to catch Wilt Chamberlain.

    To me, a gay player who is monogamous is a safer bet to not mess up his career than a straight "playa".

    Marshall Faulk had about eight kids with a variety of women he never married.

    Aaron Hernandez came in to the NFL known as a guy with a gang mentality.

    Keyshawn Johnson was a drug dealer as a teen.

    Hundreds of NFL players were known coke users in the 1980s and 1990s, and entire teams including the great Steelers teams were on Steroids

    It goes on and on, the really bad or troubled types who have been drafted even first overall, and the 'distractions" no one knew about in locker rooms.

    MANY of these players and teams were brought down by their baggage.

    Seems like Mike Sam has thrived with his, even amoung young college players.

    He seems to be the guy to put this kind of nonsense in the distant past where it belongs.

    Homophobia is wrong, and I could care less what old testament book one quotes to support their opinion, not in a waorld where everyone it seems treats the ten commandments and the words of Jesus Christ himself in such a passive manner.

    Is Mike Sam an adulterer, like a lar ge percentage of staright men and women?

    Does he steal, or lie, or kill? He seems to homor his parents, as awful as they might be.

    He isn't profane, taking the Lord's name in vain. He doesn't seem to covet his neighbors wife now does he.

    No one knoes if straight players are doing bondage stuff behind closed doors, and I guarantee a bunch do anal sex, or oral sex, with their wives and other women, ALL of it sodomy as described in the Old Testament and in arcjaic laws still in effect in the Bible belt.

    Also, since it's been estimated that about 5% of men are homosexuals, I gurantee a bunch of NFL players have gone home to BOYFRIENDS for decades. I bet many of their teamamtes knew it too.

    As I don't care what others do in their beds as consenting adults, because it matters not, and is private, I must apply that equally to a guy like Mike Sam.

    because of his talent, and the content of his character, he may be the guy to being the NFL into the 21st century.

    Those who despise this change in society need to just grow up, because it's happening, and it is a good thing, not a bad thing for society, for people to be able to be themselves.

    As far as a player, Sam will be like Elvis Dumervill, a tad smallish for a 4-3 DE, but a solid situational pass rusher who would be a steal in mid rounds, and a soldi pick in late round three, who could move up after he works out.

    The Rams certainly are a team that could use a guy to bring in on passing downs to rush the passer from the weak side LB position, even if he can't be afull time OLB.

    And with a young club containing smart, professional leaders like Chris Long and James Laurinaitis on defense, and a strong coach in Jeff Fisher, I see no issues in that locker room, other than maybe Gregg Williams trying to get Mike Sam crazy by using gay epithets.

    I'm sure Stan Kroenke has many gay employees, so it won't be any issue for him either.

    St. Louis would actually be a very good fit for Sam, as far as the media being pretty small and not overly nutty or in heat for TMZ type stuff.

    Williams loves pass rushers, and if you can get the SEC defensive player of the year in mid round three, especially with extra picks in this draft, I'd say it would be a fine move.

    EVERYONE who knows Mike Sam say he will not only be a good player and great situational pass rusher in the NFL, he will indeed be a team leader.

    On Mizzou's team this year, you had a LOT of guys from Texas, Oklahoma, and rural Missouri and Alaama, Arkansas and Mississippi, and all over the Bible belt.

    They all knew Michael Sam was gay, many even before he came out to them in August.

    It was no issue, and in fact the team rallied to support their teammate.

    Mizzou had their best season EVER.

    I think that says it all, and if those young men and Gary Pinkel and his staff were MORE than just OK playing with this person, who gives a rats patootie what some "old school" fans think of this or ANY social issue.

    This is Jackie Robinson all over again, and if you think it isn't, just watch "42" if you are too young to have livesd in the 1940s and 1950s.

    Like racism and anti-feminism, homophobia is a dying idea, dying with the idiotic old men who still cling to what they THINK was the "good old days".

    It wasn't that for women, people of color, non-Christians, or gays, that's for sure.

    At one time even immigrant Catholics were severely persecuted here.

    I am quite heartened by what I read and hear from NFL players and owners, and from the media, as far as faith in our future as a free, and democtratic country.

    MOST people are now for gay rights, including the right to marry, so those who think it should still be stopped, despite being a shrinking minority are anything BUT folks who are for laws decided my a majority, and thus UN-American in the most basic way.
    Last edited by HUbison; -02-12-2014 at 02:14 PM. Reason: No need for the partisan political and religious speak.

    Barry Waller

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    I have no issue with an individuals sexual preference. As you stated, this is similiar to the Jackie Robinson story. I do have a few questions though.

    1. Will Michael Sam's draft status be affected by this? Meaning will he drop in the draft from where a guy of his potential would be normally drafted?

    2. Which NFL team is going to make him their draft day selection? Will teams shy away? Will teams address their current rosters and ask for their players imput?

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Great post BW - couldn't agree more.

    Have always loved the expression "Ignorance can be fixed - stupid is forever", but when ignorance and stupidity come together, it's hopeless.

    The media being what they are, (and it's their job, so I don't fault them), are going to milk this for all it's worth, but I truly believe, as Barry stated, that it really is (will be) a non-issue with the players.

    You'll inevitably have the usual knuckleheads getting press for their ignorant opinions and comments, but after this week, I think it goes away till he's drafted, and then it will flare up again briefly, only to die a natural and well-deserved death - ala Mantei Teo.

    Proof? Quick, can anyone here name the NBA player that came out? I can't.
    Last edited by VegasRam; -02-12-2014 at 06:20 PM. Reason: Not to get political.....but you did. Sorry. No problem - a guy's gotta try.
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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    I don't consider Sam's sexual orientation a baggage unless it distracts him from playing the game, which I doubt it will seeing that his teammates in Mizzou knew about it before he came out publicity and there was zero problem.

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    Firstly, anyone talking about his sexual preference as "baggage' needs to go back to the dark ages.

    It's no more baggage than a player like Joe Namath had, bagging "birds" in a career of one night stands, probably many times more than one in bed with him at a time.

    Magic Johnson got AIDS, and as far as I know, he is straight. he got it by being so promiscuous, he was trying to catch Wilt Chamberlain.

    To me, a gay player who is monogamous is a safer bet to not mess up his career than a straight "playa".

    Marshall Faulk had about eight kids with a variety of women he never married.

    Aaron Hernandez came in to the NFL known as a guy with a gang mentality.

    Keyshawn Johnson was a drug dealer as a teen.

    Hundreds of NFL players were known coke users in the 1980s and 1990s, and entire teams including the great Steelers teams were on Steroids

    It goes on and on, the really bad or troubled types who have been drafted even first overall, and the 'distractions" no one knew about in locker rooms.

    MANY of these players and teams were brought down by their baggage.

    Seems like Mike Sam has thrived with his, even amoung young college players.

    He seems to be the guy to put this kind of nonsense in the distant past where it belongs.

    Homophobia is wrong, and I could care less what old testament book one quotes to support their opinion, not in a waorld where everyone it seems treats the ten commandments and the words of Jesus Christ himself in such a passive manner.

    Is Mike Sam an adulterer, like a lar ge percentage of staright men and women?

    Does he steal, or lie, or kill? He seems to homor his parents, as awful as they might be.

    He isn't profane, taking the Lord's name in vain. He doesn't seem to covet his neighbors wife now does he.

    No one knoes if straight players are doing bondage stuff behind closed doors, and I guarantee a bunch do anal sex, or oral sex, with their wives and other women, ALL of it sodomy as described in the Old Testament and in arcjaic laws still in effect in the Bible belt.

    Also, since it's been estimated that about 5% of men are homosexuals, I gurantee a bunch of NFL players have gone home to BOYFRIENDS for decades. I bet many of their teamamtes knew it too.

    As I don't care what others do in their beds as consenting adults, because it matters not, and is private, I must apply that equally to a guy like Mike Sam.

    because of his talent, and the content of his character, he may be the guy to being the NFL into the 21st century.

    Those who despise this change in society need to just grow up, because it's happening, and it is a good thing, not a bad thing for society, for people to be able to be themselves.

    As far as a player, Sam will be like Elvis Dumervill, a tad smallish for a 4-3 DE, but a solid situational pass rusher who would be a steal in mid rounds, and a soldi pick in late round three, who could move up after he works out.

    The Rams certainly are a team that could use a guy to bring in on passing downs to rush the passer from the weak side LB position, even if he can't be a full time OLB.

    And with a young club containing smart, professional leaders like Chris Long and James Laurinaitis on defense, and a strong coach in Jeff Fisher, I see no issues in that locker room, other than maybe Gregg Williams trying to get Mike Sam crazy by using gay epithets.

    I'm sure Stan Kroenke has many gay employees, so it won't be any issue for him either.

    St. Louis would actually be a very good fit for Sam, as far as the media being pretty small and not overly nutty or in heat for TMZ type stuff.

    Williams loves pass rushers, and if you can get the SEC defensive player of the year in mid round three, especially with extra picks in this draft, I'd say it would be a fine move.

    EVERYONE who knows Mike Sam say he will not only be a good player and great situational pass rusher in the NFL, he will indeed be a team leader.

    On Mizzou's team this year, you had a LOT of guys from Texas, Oklahoma, and rural Missouri and Alaama, Arkansas and Mississippi, and all over the Bible belt.

    They all knew Michael Sam was gay, many even before he came out to them in August.

    It was no issue, and in fact the team rallied to support their teammate.

    Mizzou had their best season EVER.

    I think that says it all, and if those young men and Gary Pinkel and his staff were MORE than just OK playing with this person, who gives a rats patootie what some "old school" fans think of this or ANY social issue.

    This is Jackie Robinson all over again, and if you think it isn't, just watch "42" if you are too young to have livesd in the 1940s and 1950s.

    Like racism and anti-feminism, homophobia is a dying idea, dying with the idiotic old men who still cling to what they THINK was the "good old days".


    It wasn't that for women, people of color, non-Christians, or gays, that's for sure.

    At one time even immigrant Catholics were severely persecuted here.

    How many of the very LOUDEST religious and far right wing political leaders have proven to be huge sinners and hypocrites in their private lives? That's why they need to be ignored, when it comes to guiding "American Values".

    Luckily, we have grown, we have matured, we have gotten educated with books other than the Bible, or Torah, or Koran, and we have evolved as a people, unfortunately often BEHIND Europe and other places we should be ahead of in social freedoms and equal rights.

    Eventually, the far right anti-gay bunch will die, literally, and for most of them, those over 70, it's coming sooner than later. It's already DEAD on college campusses, where our future ociety is molded, even with ignorant, uneducated Red Necks digging in their heels as long as they possibly can, fueled by religious leaders exploiting them for their own political reasons.

    I am quite heartened by what I read and hear from NFL players and owners, and from the media, as far as faith in our future as a free, and democratic country.

    MOST people are now for gay rights, including the right to marry, so those who think it should still be stopped, despite being a shrinking minority are anything BUT folks who are for laws decided my a majority, and thus UN-American in the most basic way.
    I agree with you Barry, especially the points I put in bold. I'm just not so sure "MOST" people are now for gay rights, unfortunately. I was shocked to see blatant homophobia here in the other now locked Michael Sam thread in this forum. It was sad to read, and I hope you're right, that most, if not all people are for gay rights.

    As for Michael Sam, he is a human being, and a good football player. I hope that he doesn't get discriminated against on team's draft boards. If he can help the Rams win, and he is the best pick available, I'm all for drafting him.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Sam's draft status will be affected more by how he works out, especially at LB than anything.

    All it takes is one team with that need for a pass rusher to want him in round three or earlier for him to go there.

    A team with a strong leader like New England, in a big city in the "Liberal" East, who is in big need of pass rushers, would beb a good bet to go early for him.

    Obviously places like SF or NY could be in line to take him as well, and Pete Carroll ALWAYS oes after these type pass rush guys.

    I would not rule out the Rams either or even his home state Texans or Cowboys.

    I think fans will see him go higher than expected if he works out well.

    Sam reminds me of Tully Banta-Cain, who hd a fine career in NE as a pass rush guy.
    Barry Waller

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    I think its noteworthy that the Rams have always been one of the more progressive franchises.

    They were among the first to break the "color barrier." (signing Kenny Washington in 1946)
    They were the first to have a female owner. (Georgia Frontiere)
    They were the first to employ a head coach with a psychological disorder. (Mike Martz)

    That last one was a joke.

    Sort of.

    The point is, if Sam can play SAM, then SAM could be a Ram.
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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Here is Wikipedia on the public opinion % on gay marriage (over 50% now for). HOWEVER I'm sure it would be far higher on other gay rights concerning work etc.

    "There is much media coverage of and research on public opinion of same-sex marriage in the United States.

    Most polls since 2010 show majority support for legal recognition of same-sex marriage. Majority public support for same-sex marriage has solidified, and recent polls consistently indicate support above 50%.

    Support has increased steadily for more than a decade, with supporters first achieving a majority in 2010. An August 2010 CNN poll became the first national poll to show majority support for same-sex marriage,"
    Barry Waller

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    "Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research fielded the CAP poll of likely 2012 voters in the first and second weeks of April 2011, and support for ENDA is striking: Nearly three-fourths of voters (73 percent) support protecting gay and transgender people from workplace discrimination. This support cuts across political party affiliation, with 81 percent of Democrats, 74 percent of independents, and 66 percent of Republicans supporting workplace nondiscrimination laws for LGBT people.

    Jeff Krehely of CAP writes that the poll shows that Catholic (74 percent support) and senior citizen (61 percent support) voters are also clearly in favor of workplace protections for LGBT people. Even among voters who identify themselves as feeling generally unfavorable toward gay people, a full 50 percent support workplace nondiscrimination protections for the gay and transgender population.

    A majority of Americans have supported equal rights and opportunities for gay people in the workplace since polls as early as the 1980’s."

    - See more at: Polling Shows Strong Support for ENDA | Freedom to Work
    Barry Waller

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    I honestly think nobody cares about this. Nobody that matters anyway. I'm sure GMs will ask him about the timing of his announcement, but other than that nobody (outside the media) cares.

    I do wonder what happens if for purely football reasons he can't make a roster. I doubt it, but better players have been cut. What then? Does the media start freaking out that he was cut for being gay?

    As a Mizzou fan, I hope the kid makes it anyway, but if for some reason he gets cut, I am hoping against the media fallout that could come from it.
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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Let's not stray too far from the topic of football...

    The bottom line is that any NFL franchise that would consider Sam's sexual orientation as a factor in the decision of whether or not to draft him needs to be told that their old road is rapidly aging, and that they should get out of the new one if they can't lend their hand.

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    I do wonder what happens if for purely football reasons he can't make a roster. I doubt it, but better players have been cut. What then? Does the media start freaking out that he was cut for being gay?
    That's an interesting point. It hasn't happened with Jason Collins in the NBA because, truth told, he was unlikely to be signed by a team at age 35 regardless of his sexual orientation. In Sam's case, it appears that he is a guy who should at least make a roster.

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    That's an interesting point. It hasn't happened with Jason Collins in the NBA because, truth told, he was unlikely to be signed by a team at age 35 regardless of his sexual orientation. In Sam's case, it appears that he is a guy who should at least make a roster.
    From that perspective, this has never been seen before. As you said Collins (NBA) came out at the end of his career, as did Glenn Burke (MLB) and Billy Bean (MLB). The fact that Sam has come out prior to his career even beginning adds a new element.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    I do wonder what happens if for purely football reasons he can't make a roster. I doubt it, but better players have been cut. What then? Does the media start freaking out that he was cut for being gay?
    That would be the more interesting story, so I'm sure that's what most media outlets would go with before they even bother to look in to it.

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    Re: My Thoughts on Michael Sam

    HE'S GAY...AND?

    it just baffles me how people....

    i just...

    wow, dunno what to say cause it's such a....well...it doesn't matter

    so he likes the same sex...who cares

    that's how he rolls

    who cares

    i really don't know what to say other than i'm extremely disappointed in those who even think for a SECOND about it possibly being a bad thing

    this is 2014, we know you're born with it, the preferences...

    ack...
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