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Thread: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

  1. #31
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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    And that is as far as the comparison goes.

    I'm sure hundreds of players have been seen as similar in development at this stage. Some go on to stardom and some don't.

    I just find it curious that you chose the negative side of the arguement to hang your hat on.
    For me, it's about minimizing risk, especially with a high draft pick. Unrefined prospects who still need to develop going into the NFL, are a higher risk than refined prospects who are seen as pro ready.

    The Rams have tried the project route, without much success. Now, with so much on the line (no pun intended), I'd like to see them go the safe route and take the top rated lineman in the draft.

    I'm certainly not saying Robinson can't reach his perceived potential, or that Matthews is a can't miss prospect, just looking to get the best odds possible with a critical decision.
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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Jake Matthews. Done.

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Auburn's Greg Robinson Wows at Combine

    Posted 12 hours ago

    Jonathan Webb Website Intern stlouisrams.com

    Auburn offensive tackle Greg Robinson impressed scouts with his athleticism on Day 3 of the #NFLCobmine at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, Indiana.

    Auburn University’s Greg Robinson began this week in consideration as one of the top tackles in the 2014 NFL Draft. Following the show he put on during the testing portion of the NFL Combine on Saturday, he may have moved himself right to the top of the pack.

    Robinson turned in an official 40-yard time of 4.92 seconds, tied for best among offensive linemen on the day. He posted a 10-yard split, which is the more pertinent figure among linemen, of 1.68 seconds. At 6’5” and 332 pounds, Robinson offers a unique combination of size and athleticism to whichever NFL team chooses select him in May.

    Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher has yet to select a first-round offensive lineman in his head coaching career, but Robinson gave the Rams and every other NFL team plenty of reason to consider investing in one early this time around. Should the right candidate be available, Fisher emphasized that the Rams have no qualms over selecting a first-round lineman this spring, and Robinson’s junior season at Auburn caught the eye of the Rams’ head coach.

    “Gus (Malzahn)’s offense is unique, and it’s very difficult to defend,” Fisher said. With the turnover they had from last year to this year, obviously they were doing some good things, and he (Robinson) was a big part of it. He was a dominating player at that level.”

    Robinson was the linchpin of Auburn’s, fast-paced, run-heavy offense in 2013, which included a trip to the BCS Championship game. While speaking to media Friday, Robinson made clear his preference for a run-based offensive scheme. That trait would happen to match well with the Rams’ offensive attack last year behind running back Zac Stacy, as well as fall in line with the historical trends of Fisher’s offenses in both St. Louis and Tennessee.

    “I excel at run blocking because I work on it a lot,” Robinson said. In run blocking, you can really be as aggressive as you want. You can come off the ball how you want and as long as you’ve got yourself in a good position, you’re ready to block.”

    As impressive as Robinson was on the field Saturday, his performance was prefaced a bit by his press conference on Friday, when he said he expected the physical aspect of the Combine to be likely the easiest of his evaluations.

    “We’re so prepared, we’ve been training for six to eight weeks,” Robinson said. “This is something we’ve been preparing for, so it is sort of easy.”

    Robinson’s performance immediately elicited strong positive reactions from media types, though none of it came as a surprise to those most familiar with the left tackle, including college teammate and chief benefactor of Robinson’s efforts, running back Tre Mason.

    “Since freshman year, I knew Greg was going to be something special,” Mason said.

    Following Saturday’s showing, a number of NFL teams likely agree.

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Beef or chicken for the main course. Strawberry or vanilla for ice cream dessert. Can't go wrong!

    But considering the times and the kitchen factors, I think I'll go with Matthews.
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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    My logical mind still says take the bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, more athletic one, with the greater wingspan and much more dominant blocking ability.

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    My logical mind still says take the bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, more athletic one, with the greater wingspan and much more dominant blocking ability.
    Yes, often "more IS better", hence, more logical!

    It will be interesting to see about the brawn vs brains (or heart) on these two prospects. Close match!

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post
    Yes, often "more IS better", hence, more logical!

    It will be interesting to see about the brawn vs brains (or heart) on these two prospects. Close match!
    Not sure how much brains will have to do with blocking. Seems to me it'll be just see man, block man, more often than not.

    I'm pretty sure every prospect has that concept down.

    More advanced scheming will obviously require good coaching, but after that coaching it'll return to the basics of, see man, block man.

    Of course there'll be those who see man, can't get to man.

    That's where the logic of having the quicker, more athletic guy comes into play.

    Or those who see man, get overpowered by man.

    That's where the logic of having the bigger, stronger guy comes into play.

    Being technically sound is fantastic, until you run up against guys who are quicker, stronger and just as polished a rusher as you are a blocker.

    Then what do you do? A. swallow your pride and ask coach for hellllllllllllllllllllllllpppp,(is there an echo in here.....anyway), or B. Get beat like a drum all day

    Well hopefully Mathews would choose A

    That'll likely be what forges the separation of the men from the boys, IMO.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -02-24-2014 at 02:16 AM.

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Oh, I agree about the fundamentals of blocking. I was thinking more along the lines of smarts in learning and executing the OL playbook, OL schemes. Or, as I also pointed out, replacing 'brains' with the 'heart' factor.

    In any case, we have two terrific candidates in Matthews and Robinson and seems it is a seesaw in determining the better player.

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Not sure how much brains will have to do with blocking. Seems to me it'll be just see man, block man, more often than not.
    I am under the thinking that brains do have a lot to play in the matter, more so on pass protection. Brains come in play in technique, how fast can someone pick up technique, change their positioning, footwork, knowing the offense so well that is becomes graceful. Most of all, brains help keep the yellow flags from flying for not having the head in the game and jumping offsides, or being out of position and holding on those super fast speed rushers. Now if you got a guy who can knock a 280lb man 4 yards in the air, and have the smarts to work technique and keep the penalties to nil, that person will be AWESOME!
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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Quote Originally Posted by turbofargo View Post
    I am under the thinking that brains do have a lot to play in the matter, more so on pass protection. Brains come in play in technique, how fast can someone pick up technique, change their positioning, footwork, knowing the offense so well that is becomes graceful. Most of all, brains help keep the yellow flags from flying for not having the head in the game and jumping offsides, or being out of position and holding on those super fast speed rushers. Now if you got a guy who can knock a 280lb man 4 yards in the air, and have the smarts to work technique and keep the penalties to nil, that person will be AWESOME!
    My point was, I think all the top prospects have enough brains to succeed at their positions. Otherwise they likely wouldn't be top prospects.

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Possibly, more the likely but not for sure. Well take Robinson, he is known as a run blocker. Athletic phenomenon with a high ceiling. Is that because he has the smarts to incorporate the more technical side of pass blocking or because he is so dominant at run blocking that it is more of a hope he will pick it up. I don't know his intelligence so can't say. I'm sure your right. I don't have figures to show how many genetic gods-among-men became dummies at the pro level. I guess that is why they have the Wonderlic Test.
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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    - -

    - -


    For the sake of argument if you will, following are a few sources that consider an OL's intelligence as a player. This is what I had in mind when wondering about Matthews & Robinson in terms of learning the blocking schemes, avoiding penalties (Alex Barron syndrome), and so on; i.e, football smarts. I'd think that both Matthews and Robinson are close in this evaluation, being top prospects as they are.

    Don't know how much the Wonderlic Test applies to OL; I suppose it is a relative reference (see last article below). And again, there are coaches that may sometimes prefer a bigger heart than a "bigger" brain.


    If interested in reading about the offensive lineman's intelligence, copy, paste blue link...

    * Football Coach Daily / Five Traits of Every Successful OL / Rick Trickett:
    Footballcoachdaily.com/2012/07/19/the-five-traits-of-every-successful-offensive-lineman/

    Characteristics of Offensive Linemen
    To be successful, an offensive lineman needs to have these five characteristics: intelligence, toughness, work ethic, good character, and athletic ability. A team with five players who have all five of these characteristics will be difficult to beat. -- R. Trickett

    * National Football Post / The Most Difficult Position to Scout / Greg Gabriel
    Nationalfootballpost.com/The-most-difficult-position-to-scout.html

    The one common denominator that most teams look for in offensive linemen is intelligence. As a whole, offensive linemen are among the smartest guys on a team. ...The one common trait, no matter what the offensive line position, is intelligence.

    * NFL Philosophy / Position Breakdown: OL / Joe Bussell

    This article is mainly about the center but then, it's always great to have a G/T that can also play C.

    NFLphilosophy.com/position-breakdown-offensive-line/

    The best centers are some of your most football intelligent guys on the field. If the QB doesn't make the blocking calls and adjustments for the OL, then it will almost always fall on the center. He must be strong from the ground up to be physical in the run game and reactive in pass blocking. It’s easy to overlook a simple motion such as a snap in the shotgun but the ability to do it accurately and consistently shouldn't be discounted. Especially because he usually has to do it and then immediately take on a NT/DT in his kitchen.

    [...] Intelligence at the C position is the most important of any offensive linemen. A center can be evaluated on how he moves defenders out of holes, double teams a DT, and then moves to the next level if called for. With defenses relying on more complicated blitz schemes a center should be able to move side to side with his head up and on a swivel to take on a coming DE from a stunt or a LB from a Fire-X blitz. A center should be balanced in every facet of the game with a propensity towards intelligence and being able to anchor with good athleticism.

    A very good/intelligent center can be a neophyte QB’s best friend by being able to make protection calls and allowing the QB to focus on fewer things in the pre-snap phase.

    * ESPN / Who wears the NFL's smarty pants? / Matthew Glenesk
    Sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=glenesk/100226

    They're usually the biggest guys on the field, but are offensive linemen the smartest?

    If the Wonderlic test is an indicator of intelligence, the answer is yes.

    Annually, offensive linemen average a higher score on the 12-minute, 50-question quiz administered at the NFL scouting combine than players at other positions do.

    PS: Granted, sometimes an OL seems to be the LEAST intelligent player on the field!
    Last edited by RealRam; -02-25-2014 at 07:25 PM. Reason: PS

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Apologies in advance if the following article has already been posted. I might have seen it a couple of days ago but now I can't find it.


    Greg Robinson fits Rams in many ways

    By Nick Wagoner / ESPN NFL
    Feb. 22, 2014; 2:30 pm


    INDIANAPOLIS -- In what has become an NFL scouting combine tradition, St. Louis Rams coach Jeff Fisher was asked again whether he would be willing to draft an offensive lineman in the first round of May’s draft.

    Once again, Fisher said the fact that none of his teams have taken a lineman in the first round in his nearly two decades as a head coach is more a matter of happenstance than design.

    “I have no reservation whatsoever,” Fisher said. “The only position I would not draft would be a punter or a kicker in the first round.”

    [Photo of GR at the combine]
    Auburn offensive lineman Greg Robinson was impressive during drills at the NFL combine.

    As Fisher and general manager Les Snead readily point out, sometimes the stars have to align just right for something to come together in the draft.

    "Jeff and I have laughed about that,” Snead said. “He doesn’t have a core philosophy that no (I won’t take one). It’s just over the years, how it evolved.”

    If ever there was a year for the streak to end and the questions to stop, this could be the one. And if ever there was a player built to end the run, it’s Auburn offensive tackle Greg Robinson.

    It’s no secret that revamping the offensive line is going to be an offseason priority for the Rams. Fisher and Snead have acknowledged as much given the pending contract situations of starters Rodger Saffold and Chris Williams, the injury to left tackle Jake Long, and the possible salary-cap scenarios involving Scott Wells and Harvey Dahl.

    Depending on what happens with Saffold and elsewhere in free agency, the need is clearly there.

    The next part of the equation is matching the value with the draft pick.

    The Rams have pick Nos. 2 and 13 in the first round, and seven more selections, one each in rounds two through six, and two in the seventh. That number could grow with compensatory picks when they’re divvied up at the owner’s meetings next month.

    But as it stands right now, adding Robinson to the stable of Rams offensive linemen is a move that would make a whole lot of sense. Though many discussions about trading the pick will evolve between now and the draft, if the Rams have to do pick at No. 2, so be it.

    Multiple NFL scouts said over the weekend that Robinson isn't too far behind South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney in the discussion of the draft’s best player. If that’s the case, a trade down with hopes of landing Robinson might be a risky proposition.

    In his Saturday workouts, Robinson did nothing to dispel the notion that he could be one of the draft’s best players and a potential top three pick.

    Robinson already drew plenty of oohs and aahs from teams for measuring in at 6-foot-5, 332 pounds this week. He added more buzz Friday when he benched 225 pounds 32 times despite his 35-inch arms.

    Robinson put icing on the cake with an overwhelming performance on the Lucas Oil Stadium turf, highlighted by an official 40-yard dash time of 4.92 seconds.

    Perhaps more important than running 40 yards in a straight line, Robinson showed well in mirror and footwork drills. Playing in coach Gus Malzahn's offense, Robinson didn’t get many opportunities to show his pass-blocking skills.

    That has made it hard for teams to project how Robinson will fare in that regard.

    “Gus’ offense is unique and it’s very, very difficult to defend,” Fisher said. “It creates matchups in one-on-one ... [Robinson] was a big part of it. He was a dominating player in that locker room. I think what teams are going to do now is sort through the offense and see how Greg will adjust in the pro-style offense.”

    While other tackles like Texas A&M’s Jake Matthews and Michigan’s Taylor Lewan are considered more polished, Robinson has been hit with the “potential” label, an insinuation that he might not be prepared to make an impact right away like his fellow top tackles.

    It’s a reservation Robinson understands.

    “That’s in the back of my head, because they say I’m not at full potential right now,” Robinson said. “I still have a lot to go. I started last year was my first season starting. Like the guys they have ahead of me like Jake Matthews, he started since he was a freshman. That’s just something I feel I need to prove. It’s probably in people’s head that I’m not there."

    Beyond the impressive college production and workout, Robinson also has his share of close ties to the Rams and their top two decision-makers.

    Snead played his college ball at Auburn and keeps a close eye on the Tigers. Former Auburn quarterback Barrett Trotter is an operations assistant and scouting assistant.

    And, of course, Fisher’s son, Trent, was a teammate of Robinson's at Auburn. Robinson had a formal 15-minute interview with the Rams on Thursday night, and said he got a chance to catch up with the younger Fisher and Trotter as well.

    “I haven’t spoken with his dad, but Trent is a good dude, he was a leader on our team,” Robinson said. “I looked up to him and I respected him. I actually talked to him yesterday, him and Barrett Trotter. They have been telling me a lot of good things.”

    For his part, Jeff Fisher said it’s nice to have close ties to any prospect, but that doesn't necessarily mean it’s an edge over other teams.

    “I think it’s important,” Fisher said. “We’re going to try to get as much information as we can. The skill set is there on the game tape. The more information you can get from a character standpoint is beneficial. But in this day and age, with the information that’s available, I don’t think we’ll have an advantage over anybody else.”

    Robinson’s run-blocking skills would seem to be a good fit for the Rams' offense, even if he had to go on the Jonathan Ogden plan and play guard for a bit before moving to tackle.

    With Robinson's approach to the game, there is little doubt he’ll have trouble winning over Rams offensive line coach Paul Boudreau and the rest of the league's line coaches.

    “I wouldn't say (I play) angry, but I’m not trying to be nice,” Robinson said.


    ================================================


    BTW, here is a good, long read on Robinson by Dan Pompei (Feb. 24, 2014):

    Sportsonearth.com/article/68258092/auburn-tackle-greg-robinson-was-solid-at-the-nfl-combine

    Will we be seeing GR smiling big and holding a Rams jersey with No. 1 on Draft day?...

    Last edited by RealRam; -02-25-2014 at 10:38 PM. Reason: Emoticon

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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    I think all of us need to get used to seeing Robinson in a Rams uniform. The guy is a monster and is being compared to the likes of Pace and or Walter Jones. Can't pass that up.
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    Re: NFL combine: Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson? Pick your flavor

    Greg Robinson enters elite status

    By BRENT SOBLESKI
    USA Today Sports
    Feb. 26, noon

    The NFL combine is complete. Over 300 players were poked, prodded and paraded in front of NFL decision-makers. As a result, the makeup of May’s NFL draft changed dramatically based on performances seen in Indianapolis.

    The biggest story surrounding the combine was the evolving status of the offensive tackle position.

    Auburn’s Greg Robinson put together a jaw-dropping workout. At 6-4 and 332 pounds with 35-inch arms, Robinson personifies a prototype NFL left tackle. He then blew everyone away with a phenomenal workout. Robinson posted a sub-5.0 40-yard dash. He showed explosiveness and quickness in all of the measured drills. And he was nearly flawless during positional drills.
    Robinson did all of this while battling a head cold.

    Robinson answered the question of whether he or Texas A&M’s Jake Matthews was the top offensive tackle prospect. While Robinson will never be the technician Matthews is, Robinson’s talent ceiling is much higher.

    Meanwhile, Alabama’s Cyrus Kouandjio was on the opposite side of the spectrum. Kouandjio entered his junior campaign as a Top 10 prospect. He struggled in 2013. And he didn’t make his situation any better with a poor workout at the combine. To top things off, there are now concerns about the long-term stability of Kouandjio’s knees. As a result, Kouandjio fell out of the first round of a Q mock draft for the first time all year.


    Finally, other players moved around the board.

    Fresno State’s Derek Carr has been projected as a potential Top 10 pick. But those projections were based primarily on need more so than talent. If the Vikings pass on Carr at No. 8 overall, the quarterback could realistically drop out of the first round entirely.

    Other players such as Virginia Tech’s Kyle Fuller, UCLA’s Xavier Su’a-Filo, Oregon State’s Brandin Cooks and Ohio State’s Bradley Roby all worked their way into first round consideration due to a good weekend in Indianapolis.

    Now on to this week’s mock draft…

    1. Texans
    Blake Bortles, QB UCF

    2. Rams (from WASH)
    Greg Robinson, OT Auburn

    3. Jaguars
    Johnny Manziel, QB Texas A&M

    4. Browns
    Teddy Bridgewater, QB Louisville

    5. Raiders
    Jadeveon Clowney, DE South Carolina

    6. Falcons
    Khalil Mack, LB Buffalo

    7. Buccaneers
    Jake Matthews, OT Texas A&M

    8. Vikings
    Anthony Barr, LB UCLA

    9. Bills
    Sammy Watkins, WR Clemson

    10. Lions
    Justin Gilbert, CB Oklahoma State

    11. Titans
    Mike Evans, WR Texas A&M

    12. Giants
    Zack Martin, OT Notre Dame

    13. Rams
    Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, S Alabama

    14. Bears
    Calvin Pryor, S Louisville

    15. Steelers
    Taylor Lewan, OT Michigan

    16. Cowboys
    Aaron Donald, DT Pittsburgh

    17. Ravens
    C.J. Mosley, LB Alabama

    18. Jets
    Eric Ebron, TE North Carolina

    19. Dolphins
    Timmy Jernigan, DT Florida State

    20. Cardinals
    Dee Ford, DE Auburn

    21. Packers
    Louis Nix III, NT Notre Dame

    22. Eagles
    Odell Beckham Jr., WR LSU

    23. Chiefs
    Marqise Lee, WR USC

    24. Bengals
    Darqueze Dennard, CB Michigan State

    25. Chargers
    Kyle Fuller, CB Virginia Tech

    26. Browns (from IND)
    Xavier Su’a-Filo, OG UCLA

    27. Saints
    Kony Ealy, DE Missouri
    28. Panthers
    Brandin Cooks, WR Oregon State

    29. Patriots
    Jace Amaro, TE Texas Tech

    30. 4rtywhiners
    Ra’Shede Hageman, DT Minnesota

    31. Broncos
    Bradley Roby, CB Ohio State

    32. Seahawks
    David Yankey, OG Stanford

    *Draft order was determined by record, strength of schedule and playoff results. The slotting for the Cowboys and the Ravens was decided by a coin flip due to identical records and opponent strength of schedules.

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