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  1. #1
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    NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    NFL Draft Countdown - 2008 NFL Mock Draft

    2. ST. LOUIS RAMS

    GLENN DORSEY DT | L.S.U.

    This is a tough spot for the Rams since the value on the board does not necessarily match their greatest needs but at this point defensive line looks like the best option. Chris Long may be a better fit but it is hard to classify Glenn Dorsey as a consolation prize because many consider him to be the top senior prospect in this draft. La'Roi Glover won't be around much longer and even though Clifford Ryan played well as a rookie it would probably be difficult to justify passing on a talent like Dorsey because of him. Moving last year's #1 Adam Carriker back outside to end is even a possibility.


    Scott Wright is preaching exactly what I was aruging in the bar-bq's mock draft thread. If Long is taken, unless Gholston complete tears up the Combine and we can't pass him or we trade down, Dorsey is the pick. This is a dream situation for me. He even talks about shifting Carriker back to end which is what I was preaching in the other thread. Check the link for the rest of the picks. Discuss?


  2. #2
    Mooselini Guest

    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    I dont see why we (as the RAMS) would take Dorsey of Long.

    Trust me, Dorsey is probably the best player in the draft, however...he's not the position we're looking for. I like Dorsey. Trust me, but drafting Dorsey (as mentioned above) will mean we have to take Carriker and put him back in the DE when we had just got him accustomed to the DT spot.

    Youre right though, if Long is taken by the Phins, and Ghoulston does something amazing, we could attempt to fix up the DT position a bit more for Carriker and Dorsey to play right next to each other.

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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
    NFL Draft Countdown - 2008 NFL Mock Draft

    2. ST. LOUIS RAMS

    GLENN DORSEY DT | L.S.U.

    This is a tough spot for the Rams since the value on the board does not necessarily match their greatest needs but at this point defensive line looks like the best option. Chris Long may be a better fit but it is hard to classify Glenn Dorsey as a consolation prize because many consider him to be the top senior prospect in this draft. La'Roi Glover won't be around much longer and even though Clifford Ryan played well as a rookie it would probably be difficult to justify passing on a talent like Dorsey because of him. Moving last year's #1 Adam Carriker back outside to end is even a possibility.

    Clifford
    Ryan?

    Anyway, I can't see there being any other option than moving Carriker back to end if Dorsey was indded the selection, because what Mr. Wright hasn't noted is that currently, Carriker and Doresy are both playing the same position; that being Under Tackle. Now, If Carriker were on the nose, this would be a better pick. But he's not, and he was overshadowed by Ryan when he did play there. Point being, Ryan, for better or worse, is the only true nose tackle on the defense ATM. That still goes if we draft Dorsey.

    You're drafting a great player, but putting the great player you drafted last year in a position that makes it more difficult for him to succeed. You're essentially offsetting all the progress he made at UT, and asking him to have his rookie season all over at a new position, and having him change his conditioning back to what it was in the first place.

    You want past Rams examples, like you gave with Furrey? Look at Jimmy Kennedy. Changing positions between NT and UT, always adding or lose some amount of weight to cope with a new workload, and look where it got him. Sacked.

    What you neglected to mention is that it was Martz who moved furrey in the first place, and the fact that he runs and offense wherein WRs are cultivated and put in position to succeed. With better players, Furrey moved down the depth chart behind Johnson, Williams AND McDonald despite his great season last year, and what did he do? Diddly squat. Meanwhile, McDonald had 1000 yards and close to 100 catches. Tell me Martz' offense isn't a plug in and play offense, especially for recievers. And don't think he didn't know that. When the team got new players, he moved down the depth chart.

    Point being, if he was such a revelation, such a standout, he'd still be starting.

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    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    I've said all along.......the pick (subject to the next 4 months of interviews, combine, workouts, medical checks, more workouts, visits, more interviews, etc.) is C. Long or Dorsey, whichever one is there.

    A pick this high has to be BPA, or I think in our case, BDPA, regardless of position. If you pick for position, you are most likely losing value. With the 2nd pick in the draft, there's a lot of money floating to some kid whose value doesn't match the pick.

    But, hey......a lot of things can and will happen between now and then.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    The only thing wrong with your argument Bar-bq is that you are saying that we are commited to Ryan as our starting NT and that he played so well that he can't come off the bench. Why not just make that position even stronger by adding Dorsey? Ryan made the majority of his big plays while coming off the bench and being a spark. I would not want to mess with that at all. Add a big name DE in free agency, and we are set IMO. But as HUbison said, ALOT can change between now and the draft.

  6. #6
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    The only thing wrong with your argument Bar-bq is that you are saying that we are commited to Ryan as our starting NT and that he played so well that he can't come off the bench. Why not just make that position even stronger by adding Dorsey?
    Bar-bq's point, which is agree with completely, is that Dorsey is not a NT. Both Dorsey and Carriker are UT, and neither can effectively replace Ryan at NT. If you draft Dorsey, you are committing yourself to moving Carriker to DE.

    So, even if Dorsey would give you more value than Chris Long in a vacuum, is that additional "value" worth moving Carriker around and potentially setting back his development? In my opinion, no. So I think we need to take Chris Long if he's available.

    Now if C. Long is taken at #1, it's a bit closer in my opinion. In this case it will probably depend on the status of Pace and Little (if Pace is gone, it will tilt things toward Jake Long; if Little is gone, it will tilt things toward drafting Dorsey and moving Carriker) and the Rams' beliefs regarding Carriker's ability to move (back) to DE, among other things.

    Personally, I'm not a huge J. Long fan. Best case scenario from my perspective is we keep Pace, cut Little and draft C. Long to replace him. Restructuring Little is an option as well, but then do we really want James Hall riding the pine with how much we paid him?

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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    The Ultimate Glenn Dorsey Video
    YouTube - The Ultimate Glenn Dorsey Video

  8. #8
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    Once again, I understand it impedes Carriker's development at DT. But then again, end is his natural position and its the position that made him a high first round pick in the '07 draft. I am sure he would have no problem transitioning back to his old spot and picking up where he left off at the end of his college career. But as Bar-bq said, his rehab and recovery time will greatly hurt his transition back there if it were to happen.

    BTW, nice Dorsey vid. Here's another good one:

    Glenn Dorsey BCS Championship Game Highlights
    Last edited by Bald_81; -01-18-2008 at 06:03 PM.

  9. #9
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
    But then again, end is his natural position
    Not in a 4-3, IMO. I don't think this move would make much sense at all for St. Louis. With Long off the board, there isn't much that would be ideal. But drafting someone at a position where last year's #1 is playing simply because the guy might be the BDPA at that spot just seems strange. The only way I think this works is if the Rams commit to starting both Carriker and Dorsey at DT with Ryan as a rotational NT when needed. I'm simply not crazy about the idea of moving Carriker out as a full-time end in the 4-3 alignment, and I think people get too hung up on him being a DE prospect coming out of college.
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Not in a 4-3, IMO. I don't think this move would make much sense at all for St. Louis.
    Nick and Hubison, prior to the draft last year, Carriker was pretty high on the wish list around here. I may be wrong, but, I believe it was as a DE. Do you recall if that was your position also or did you only want Carriker if we moved him inside?

  11. #11
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    Quote Originally Posted by viper View Post
    Nick and Hubison, prior to the draft last year, Carriker was pretty high on the wish list around here. I may be wrong, but, I believe it was as a DE. Do you recall if that was your position also or did you only want Carriker if we moved him inside?
    HUb was on the Carriker train much sooner than I was, sooner than just about anyone as I recall (June '06 I believe was the first prediction of Carriker as a dark horse candidate for the Rams, incredible!). But I think the majority opinion on the guy was that in a 4-3 offense, a shift inside was very likely.

    To be honest, I recall being rather undecided about him in regards to position. Prior to the draft, I believe I approached him more as a 3-4 end but acknowledged his versatility and that he'd be a fit as a UT as well. I think after he was the selection, my biggest question was where he'd be used. I was concerned about a lack of edge rush should he be a starter at DE, and said that a move to three technique would make more sense.

    I think after adding more weight at the combine, adding more weight after being drafted, and playing the majority of his time inside as a tackle, it would be difficult to justify trying to shift him outside.
    Last edited by Nick; -01-18-2008 at 07:31 PM.
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  12. #12
    viper's Avatar
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    HUb was on the Carriker train much sooner than I was, sooner than just about anyone as I recall (June '06 I believe was the first prediction of Carriker as a dark horse candidate for the Rams, incredible!). .
    I remember that, it was incredible. Hub wasn't bashful about espousing Carriker's tremendous potential one bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    But I think the majority opinion on the guy was that in a 4-3 offense, a shift inside was very likely.
    By majority do you mean the so called "experts" or those around here at clanram?


    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    To be honest, I recall being rather undecided about him in regards to position. Prior to the draft, I believe I approached him more as a 3-4 end but acknowledged his versatility and that he'd be a fit as a UT as well. I think after he was the selection, my biggest question was where he'd be used. I was concerned about a lack of edge rush should he be a starter at DE, and said that a move to three technique would make more sense.
    Did he play in a 3-4 or a 4-3 at Nebraska? The reason that I was expecting him to play DE is because I had heard him being compared as a bigger version of Grant Wistrom. Are you saying that you disagree with that comparison?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I think after adding more weight at the combine, adding more weight after being drafted, and playing the majority of his time inside as a tackle, it would be difficult to justify trying to shift him outside.
    It's hard to argue with your logic. I appreciate your thoughts on him. Thanks!

  13. #13
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    How does 3-4 end translate to a natural position of of 4-3 end. That question answered simply is it doesn't. Carriker is good where he is. I think we will take Jake Long (not my favorite pick) or Vernon Gholston if he is a combine beast similar to what Gaines Adams did.
    I could see Dorsey as the pick if Haslett employs that 2 tackle system that he was talking about earlier in the year.

  14. #14
    viper's Avatar
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    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    How does 3-4 end translate to a natural position of of 4-3 end. That question answered simply is it doesn't. Carriker is good where he is. I think we will take Jake Long (not my favorite pick) or Vernon Gholston if he is a combine beast similar to what Gaines Adams did. I could see Dorsey as the pick if Haslett employs that 2 tackle system that he was talking about earlier in the year.
    Does that mean that you think taking Chris Long would be a mistake because he couldn't make the transition to a 4-3 end?

  15. #15
    Tony Soprano Guest

    Re: NFL DC Updated Mock Draft 1/18

    .
    How committed can we be to Ryan?

    I say realistically the jury is out on Ryan. Teams like to rotate those interior guys to keep them fresh too.

    I wouldn't shy away from the best player because of a couple games of flashes from Ryan.

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