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  1. #1
    general counsel's Avatar
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    nick and other experts, question on broehm

    Following up on a theme raised by the omniscient and omnipresent Big Bison, can someone explain to me how brian broehm went from being considered a top 5 pick a year ago to someone who might not go in the top 20 (as per nick who we all respect a ton)?

    I didnt see broehm play all that much, but he sure seem to pile up some impressive stats his senior year, completing countless passes to the Az Hakim wanna be harry douglass.

    It appears to me that this is the inverse of the jay cutler situation. Cutler, with minimal expectations, on a team that has been terrible since the days of jim thorpe, shot up the boards and became a top pick when he led that team to several impressive wins. Broehm, with the highest possible expectations (heisman or bust) is being penalized for staying in school an extra year when the reality appears to me that his defense killed him.

    Who knows what impact the pathetic defense had on the play calling or the decision making of broehm. I just dont see what he did to harm his status so significantly, other than to say (as i have said a million times) the quarterback is like the president of the USA. He gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they dont go well.

    I hate the argument "He's a winner!" People used that with ken dorsey, who was 39-1 as a college qb and yet anyone could see that he had no shot of being a quality nfl qb. There are tons of factors that go into winning and losing and while the qb is a critical component, there are an awful lot of factors out of the qb's control. Blocking and quality skill position players are obvious, but the play of the defense is critical as well.

    Enough of my ranting. I defer to the draft experts on this, please enlighten me. If Broehm was available at 33, i would grab him in a second and i think Av is correct, i think baltimore takes him at 8.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel



  2. #2
    Falconator Guest

    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Following up on a theme raised by the omniscient and omnipresent Big Bison, can someone explain to me how brian broehm went from being considered a top 5 pick a year ago to someone who might not go in the top 20 (as per nick who we all respect a ton)?

    I didnt see broehm play all that much, but he sure seem to pile up some impressive stats his senior year, completing countless passes to the Az Hakim wanna be harry douglass.

    It appears to me that this is the inverse of the jay cutler situation. Cutler, with minimal expectations, on a team that has been terrible since the days of jim thorpe, shot up the boards and became a top pick when he led that team to several impressive wins. Broehm, with the highest possible expectations (heisman or bust) is being penalized for staying in school an extra year when the reality appears to me that his defense killed him.

    Who knows what impact the pathetic defense had on the play calling or the decision making of broehm. I just dont see what he did to harm his status so significantly, other than to say (as i have said a million times) the quarterback is like the president of the USA. He gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they dont go well.

    I hate the argument "He's a winner!" People used that with ken dorsey, who was 39-1 as a college qb and yet anyone could see that he had no shot of being a quality nfl qb. There are tons of factors that go into winning and losing and while the qb is a critical component, there are an awful lot of factors out of the qb's control. Blocking and quality skill position players are obvious, but the play of the defense is critical as well.

    Enough of my ranting. I defer to the draft experts on this, please enlighten me. If Broehm was available at 33, i would grab him in a second and i think Av is correct, i think baltimore takes him at 8.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    General Counsel,

    yeah, I don't get it at all......Brian Brohm got BETTER his senior year - 65% completion percentage, 30 TD's, 12 INT's, etc, etc. I think Brohm is an excellent prospect - then he ran a 4.6/40 at his pro-day to top things off. Brohm seems to be superior in every way over Matt Ryan.

    Supposedly, Matt Ryan has terrific "intangibles" but meanwhile his TD/Int ratios is 1.5 and his completion % is 59% - both extremely poor numbers. However, McShay, Kiper and Mayock go on and on and on about the virtues of Matt Ryan - i've watched Ryan play - his "deep ball" is poor and he does not throw a tight spiral either.

    I know Brohm did not have a winning season and Ryan did - but dangit, QB is one of 22 starting positions......Louisville defense was AWFUL and the Cardinals lost several games when the offense scored plenty of points.

    I don't get the "Matt Ryan Hype" and the Brian Brohm Bashing.......oh well...

  3. #3
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    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    My own two cents on the subject is that I agree with the above assessments. Ryan won more games, but ultimately didn't do anything real special. Hell, his main accomplishment was throwing 19 INT's. As for Brohm, he did as the NFL asks, he stayed to mature. Unfortunately, that bit him in the butt as his coach left and he had to deal with a whole new system as the defense went on to prove that they couldn't stop a high school powderpuff team.

    That said, the vision of Ryan and Brohm are going to be hard to change. I think Ryan will fall to Baltimore at 8 unless Dorsey's gone at 1 or 2 and for some reason Atlanta doesn't want whichever Long falls. Ryan could go to KC, but they would be throwing him to the hounds without a credible offensive line. Baltimore will find good value for him there as he's realistically a top 15 talent in this class, but they won't find better without spending next year's first and this year's second to move up.

    As for Brohm, I don't see him going in the top 15, though the Bears would be an interesting proposition. What I do see is Atlanta using two of it's 2nd rounders to move up. Possible teams in the 1st round now that could take him are Tampa and Seattle. Gruden loves his QB's, but doesn't have a long term guy and Seattle has Seneca Wallace in backup, but is he a real NFL starter for both the long term and if Hasselbeck is out? They've effectively replaced Alexander, is Hasselbeck next?

    Wildcards would be Green Bay and San Fransisco, as they have their own reasons to be concerned about their QB situations, but I think it's too high for either team, especially with Rodgers looking good in Dallas and Shaun Hill not being as bad as Smith last year.

    Tampa would be my pick if one of them would go after Brohm, and I don't think Atlanta will trade to 19 or 20 to get Brohm. If they do trade up it'll be middle 20's to getup there ahead of any QB desiring team who would be willing to give up future picks to get up and take him. I think we'll see two trade ups in the first, one to get Brohm and one for Flacco. My guesses will be the Falcons and the Jets. Henne will be the 4th to come off the board, to either Miami(probably not, they'll bide their time with Beck) or Chicago, possibly on a trade up to get ahead of KC.

  4. #4
    Falconator Guest

    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    Quote Originally Posted by TekeRam View Post
    My own two cents on the subject is that I agree with the above assessments. Ryan won more games, but ultimately didn't do anything real special. Hell, his main accomplishment was throwing 19 INT's. As for Brohm, he did as the NFL asks, he stayed to mature. Unfortunately, that bit him in the butt as his coach left and he had to deal with a whole new system as the defense went on to prove that they couldn't stop a high school powderpuff team.

    That said, the vision of Ryan and Brohm are going to be hard to change. I think Ryan will fall to Baltimore at 8 unless Dorsey's gone at 1 or 2 and for some reason Atlanta doesn't want whichever Long falls. Ryan could go to KC, but they would be throwing him to the hounds without a credible offensive line. Baltimore will find good value for him there as he's realistically a top 15 talent in this class, but they won't find better without spending next year's first and this year's second to move up.

    As for Brohm, I don't see him going in the top 15, though the Bears would be an interesting proposition. What I do see is Atlanta using two of it's 2nd rounders to move up. Possible teams in the 1st round now that could take him are Tampa and Seattle. Gruden loves his QB's, but doesn't have a long term guy and Seattle has Seneca Wallace in backup, but is he a real NFL starter for both the long term and if Hasselbeck is out? They've effectively replaced Alexander, is Hasselbeck next?

    Wildcards would be Green Bay and San Fransisco, as they have their own reasons to be concerned about their QB situations, but I think it's too high for either team, especially with Rodgers looking good in Dallas and Shaun Hill not being as bad as Smith last year.

    Tampa would be my pick if one of them would go after Brohm, and I don't think Atlanta will trade to 19 or 20 to get Brohm. If they do trade up it'll be middle 20's to getup there ahead of any QB desiring team who would be willing to give up future picks to get up and take him. I think we'll see two trade ups in the first, one to get Brohm and one for Flacco. My guesses will be the Falcons and the Jets. Henne will be the 4th to come off the board, to either Miami(probably not, they'll bide their time with Beck) or Chicago, possibly on a trade up to get ahead of KC.
    thats a nice analysis Tekeram - not much their to nit-pick. I think Flacco will fall to the first 10 picks of 2nd round. If Falcons don't take Matt Ryan(and I pray every nite that they won't), then I would give you the "lock of the week" that Falcons will end up with either Brohm or Flacco - they MUST have a QB to have "hope" in.......for Falcons to sell "hope" to the fanbase, there must be a "future" QB on the roster....

  5. #5
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    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    Falconater, i assume from your last post that you dont see DJ Shockley as the answer to your long term qb woes.

    If the falcons get dorsey at 3 and package the #2's to get broehm and come out with broehm and dorsey, i think they will really be on their way back to the hunt.

    ramming speed to all

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  6. #6
    Falconator Guest

    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Falconater, i assume from your last post that you dont see DJ Shockley as the answer to your long term qb woes.

    If the falcons get dorsey at 3 and package the #2's to get broehm and come out with broehm and dorsey, i think they will really be on their way back to the hunt.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    general counsel,

    I'm a Georgia graduate, but some of the Georgia Bulldog "homer-ism" in Atlanta is ridiculous. DJ Shockley is an interesting "project" but he is no more ready to be an NFL QB than me being an astronaut - ok, bad analogy but you get my "drift".

    I think you will see Falcons draft just as you have laid it out above. I just hope Falcons are able to trade up without having to give two 2nd rounders - they probably will but if they wait and Brohm drops into mid twenties - then I think they could do a 2nd and a 3rd.....

  7. #7
    keith m. klink Guest

    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    I totally agree , i don't think RYAN is the best QB coming out . I think it's BROHM and then FLACCO , and RYAN 3rd followed by HENNE .

    I have BROHM going to the BEARS with the #14 pick . SORRY , i think that is chicago's move .

  8. #8
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    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    Quote Originally Posted by keith m. klink View Post
    I totally agree , i don't think RYAN is the best QB coming out . I think it's BROHM and then FLACCO , and RYAN 3rd followed by HENNE .

    I have BROHM going to the BEARS with the #14 pick . SORRY , i think that is chicago's move .
    I like Henne more than Ryan and I didn't see any of Flacco so I can't say with him so that being the case I will put him 4th,but only for that reason.

    1-Brohm
    2-Henne
    3-Ryan
    4-Flacco

  9. #9
    Falconator Guest

    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    Quote Originally Posted by jkramsfan View Post
    I like Henne more than Ryan and I didn't see any of Flacco so I can't say with him so that being the case I will put him 4th,but only for that reason.

    1-Brohm
    2-Henne
    3-Ryan
    4-Flacco
    its really, really close to me.....that's why I don't get Ryan being rated so much further ahead. I would probably go:

    1-Brohm
    2-Ryan
    3-Flacco
    4-Henne

    but 3 years from now it could easily be flipped.....that is why the Falcons or any other team would be stupid to take Matt Ryan before at least around #13 or so...

  10. #10
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    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    I don't know if it's so much Brohms status went down as much as Ryans went up. Brohm is pretty much across the board regarded as the second best quarterback prospect in this years draft.

    14. would hear outcry from Bears nation if they took Brohm, especially with t he tackles still on the board. If they Bears best bet might be Henne in the second.

  11. #11
    keith m. klink Guest

    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    that could be true , and more than likely IS going to be the story. BUT i see BROHM as a QB that could come in and start for them .

    Flacco , can throw a spiral 70+ yards . no problem at all . he is deceptively quick at 6'6+ and 240 . he can make ALL the NFL throws and if he could sit and learn as a 2nd or 3rd stringer for a 2-3 year stint until he is ready to take over .

  12. #12
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    Re: nick and other experts, question on broehm

    In Ryan's defense he probably didn't have one skill position player on that BC offense who is going to be playing on Sundays

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