Nick’s Rams Draft Primer – Offense

[citr92]

Weird how you don't want to turn this into an Allen vs Woods thread but every single point you've made has been about this(even though Nick has made it obvious he'd like to move on from this debate). I wouldn't mind if if Woods was the consensus #2 wide receiver but many(i mean most) analysts don't even have Woods in the top 5. On the other hand nearly everyone has Allen #1 or at worst #2, behind Terrence Williams.



This doesn't even take into account Woods doesn't fit our team as well as Allen does. Most teams have Woods slated to be a slot receiver and most don't believe he has #1 wide receiver potential. Even if we did not draft Allen I would much rather draft Terrence Williams, Justin Hunter, Cordarelle Patterson, or DeAndre Hopkins over Woods.

nick asked for me to shed some light on woods, so i did

[citr92]

In his last two games (2012, 2011) against Cal? ESPN and CFBStats disagree...

Robert Woods Game By Game Stats and Performance - USC Trojans - ESPN

cfbstats.com - Robert Woods 2012 Player Statistics - USC Trojans




I get that you're trying to defend your guy in this comparison against Allen, but I'd ditch the "Allen's playing with his cousin" route. That one seems like a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

Regarding 2011, the ankle injury and other weapons stealing targets seem like more legitimate arguments, but neither stopped Woods from putting up big numbers in the game prior to (14/255/2 vs. ARI) and immediately after (12/119/2 vs. ND) the October 13th Cal game.

So I guess I'm still just having a hard time understanding how Allen didn't stand out that much, when over the last two years in Cal/SC games, he put up double the receptions and nearly four times the yards of Woods.

But back to the main point, I hope I've answered your question of why I'd rank Allen over Woods. It's more to do with what I think of Woods than what I think of Allen. I'm not particularly crazy about Allen either, but I think his skillset offers more potential at the next level. Having said that, I probably wouldn't consider him until the bottom half of the first round at this point.

IMO, the strength of this class on the offensive side of the ball, at least as it relates to the top half or so of the first round, lies in its offensive lineman, which is another reason why I'd rather see the Rams go that route while finding receiving help in free agency. That could open the door to someone like Woods in Round Two if he's there, to continue adding more offensive weapons.

i forget that i have to put "lol" after a certain statement to not be considered serious

anyway, i got the stat from espn so....yea....

i think it does say how good woods is to do what he did on a bum ankle, just ask other sc fans, but he did have games where he was basically a decoy since he couldn't go as fast as he liked

ANYWAY
done, no more, finished, fisher knows better anyway so we'll see what they do, i asked nick question and responded when he did

sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo i'm done

[Nick]

Something tells me IF we don't get the receiver in FA, then we will hear how much you guys are liking some of these potential rookies.

I don't know, not all of us can pull off the kind of complete reversal on our thinking about what's needed at WR the way you did, Rambos.

ANYWAY
done, no more, finished, fisher knows better anyway so we'll see what they do, i asked nick question and responded when he did

I appreciate the dialogue, always fun to hear from people who have a different opinion!

[Rambos]

[QUOTE=Nick;447249]I don't know, not all of us can pull off the kind of complete reversal on our thinking about what's needed at WR the way you did, Rambos.


It's not hard when you have respect for what Givens has done in the last four weeks! If Givens had not come on I would still want Jennings... I never wanted Wallace so that makes it even easier to pass on him.

Change is good Nick embrace it!

[citr92]

I don't know, not all of us can pull off the kind of complete reversal on our thinking about what's needed at WR the way you did, Rambos.




I appreciate the dialogue, always fun to hear from people who have a different opinion!

yea, but i ALWAYS seem to...mess up what i'm trying to say or emphasize something too harshly, then afterwards i think of the right way to say it lol, my bad

onward!

[mde8352gorams]

Great post as always Nick you are very complete in your analysis. I would like to suggest another bowl to watch that you don't list. Its the Rose Bowl which will have Zach Ertz on display as well as Ricky Wagner a Wisconsin OT that I believe plays the right side and would be a sound choice for the 2nd round if we don't select one of the top OT's in round 1.

Go Rams!

[mcpeepants232003]

[QUOTE=Rambos;447252]

I don't know, not all of us can pull off the kind of complete reversal on our thinking about what's needed at WR the way you did, Rambos.


It's not hard when you have respect for what Givens has done in the last four weeks! If Givens had not come on I would still want Jennings... I never wanted Wallace so that makes it even easier to pass on him.

Change is good Nick embrace it!

you still fail to see most peoples points about our receiving corps. None of us are disappointed in Givens or don't want him to play a huge part in our offense next year.

Most of us are just worried about what follows Givens and Amendola. Could it be Gibson? Maybe but he's also a free agent.

I just don't see how anyone can suggest we don't even grab a WR in either the draft or free agency. Nearly every game our offense has stagnated this year it has been because of a. offensive line breakdowns or b. receivers failing to get open.

[gummysoul]

Nick, always appreciate your draft analyses over the years. Wanted to ask you if you've ever had a chance to check out UCLA tight end Joseph Fauria. The guy's 6'8" and imo, a far more dangerous downfield threat than either of the TEs you listed (Eifert, Ertz).

As for WRs, I'd venture to guess that the NFL scouts share most of our opinions that that none of the "top" prospects out there really pass the eyeball test as a #1. I'd really like to see the Rams, if drafting a WR, go get a guy who is good in space, in the mold of Randall Cobb. May not have the best straight line speed, but a serious homerun threat.

[Rambos]

[QUOTE=mcpeepants232003;449443]

you still fail to see most peoples points about our receiving corps. None of us are disappointed in Givens or don't want him to play a huge part in our offense next year.

Most of us are just worried about what follows Givens and Amendola. Could it be Gibson? Maybe but he's also a free agent.

I just don't see how anyone can suggest we don't even grab a WR in either the draft or free agency. Nearly every game our offense has stagnated this year it has been because of a. offensive line breakdowns or b. receivers failing to get open.

Just for the record.

Nick is getting on my case here because I came out early in the year and said, We need to get a veteran receiver. I was saying for awhile I wanted us to get Jennings. When I made this post saying Givens has shown me enough that IMO we don't need to get a FA WR Nick though I had lost my mind.
(and he still does)

But once and fall all for the record I never said we should not draft a receiver, in fact I clearly said we should draft one, So stop with the, how can anyone think we do not need to at least draft a WR.

I'm not posting this to rehash this again because I'm not going too, I think we played that one out. Just for the record and for you to get your facts correct. I'm fine with you not agreeing with me, thats all good, just read before you post what I have or have not said. Please read my entire post.

I'm, starting to really think Givens can be as good or better then any FA receiver we can get. Considering that he did not work too much with Bradford during preseason. Also keep in mind he did not start getting much playing time until week four and he missed a game. Lets look at his numbers.

Givens 22 catches 467 yards, 3 TD

Here are Holt's rookie numbers.

Holt 53 catches 788 yards, 6 TD

I would think it's possible for Givens in the next five games to come close to matching Holts rookie campaign.


Givens has proven he is a legit deep threat. He is starting to show he can catch the screens and produce YAC. He made nice third down grab late Sunday where he was running a crossing route getting separation made it an easy pitch and catch.

Today I see him as our number one. He is on the field a lot and will now be targeted over Gibson the rest of the way IMO.

Givens with a year under his belt and the connection he and Bradford have going next year he will have over a 1000 yards and plus 7 TD. That being said he can be a legit number next year.

I have no problem passing on a FA receivers and spending that money on the O line. Get a vet to improve pass protection and run blocking. I also have changed my opinion on drafting another receiver. Go ahead and get another young playmaker, Keenan Allen, California, DeAndre Hopkins Clemson or a Justin Hunter, Tennessee.

I think we can be more then productive with Givens, Amendola, Quick and any of those draft picks. also if Quick does not produce we will have covered our bases with another young gun to develop.

So here it is after week 11.

After week 11...

[gummysoul]

Cordarrelle Patterson of Tennessee is a homerun threat everytime he touches the ball. Rams could do a whole lot worse than drafting him with their 2nd 1st rounder.

[mcpeepants232003]

Cordarrelle Patterson of Tennessee is a homerun threat everytime he touches the ball. Rams could do a whole lot worse than drafting him with their 2nd 1st rounder.

my problem with Patterson is that he's not a polished receiver and he's more like a bigger version of Percy Harvin then a pure receiver.

The fact he's a poor route runner, a poor blocker, and has a questionable work ethic. Imo we could get Da'Rick Rogers later and he's just as good an athlete, just as much a big play threat and much more polished. Of course he comes with off field concerns.

[MoStateRam]

I was thinking Fischer and Co. might be eyeing Rodgers with how well they've done coaching up (and keeping in line) Janoris Jenkins.

[mcpeepants232003]

I was thinking Fischer and Co. might be eyeing Rodgers with how well they've done coaching up (and keeping in line) Janoris Jenkins.

If Fisher could keep Rodgers in line he could be a massive steal. There's no way he breaks in to the first round but he's got as much, if not more, potential than anyone in the draft. Plus unlike Justin Hunter or patterson(both who also have huge potential) he's a fairly polished receiver.

Anyone else find it kind of weird probably the three best WR athletes all were at Tennessee at one point? And that all three have huge potential but massive bust potential as well?

[gummysoul]

my problem with Patterson is that he's not a polished receiver and he's more like a bigger version of Percy Harvin then a pure receiver.

The fact he's a poor route runner, a poor blocker, and has a questionable work ethic. Imo we could get Da'Rick Rogers later and he's just as good an athlete, just as much a big play threat and much more polished. Of course he comes with off field concerns.

I look at most of the WRs being talked about for the upcoming draft (Cal's Allen, Baylor's Williams, etc.) and I don't see them being better receivers or having better measurables than Chris Givens. Aside from the question of his work ethic, which Fisher and Snead should be able to sniff out, Patterson can be taught to be good at all those other facets of his game. The thing is, he's just noticeably a better athlete than just about every WR out there. I don't see Da'Rick Rogers as being on his level.

I've seen him in a lot of mock drafts going in the 3rd round or later, but other mocks have him well into the 1st round, even as early as the 12th pick, currently held by Miami. I really think the Rams could do a whole lot worse than considering him with one of their 1st round picks, assuming he's still on the board at that time.