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  1. #16
    sosa39rams's Avatar
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    Re: Nick's Post-Senior Bowl TWO ROUND Mock Draft!

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Agreed for the most part; however, Pass Rusher > Wide Receiver IMO. Therefore best to secure one when the opportunity arises rather than to wait and hope to get one later in the draft.

    BTW this years Super Bowl is an excellent example of this concept. Pittsburgh and Green Bay were numbers 1 and 2 in the NFL in sacks, yet neither team really has what most would call a No. 1 receiver. Both get by very well with a committee approach and I would argue this makes them even tougher to defend.

    This is the same approach that New Orleans used last year in their title run. Brees would throw it to anyone of 5 or 6 receivers and nobody knew where or to whom the ball was going next. Much like Rodgers and the Packers this year.

    Also, the hated Cheatriots employ the same approach.

    At this point in time I'm starting to wonder if the concept of a bonafide Number One receiver isn't a little overblown. Sure it's nice to have one but as I believe is becoming more and more apparent, never at the expense of a player that can provide devastating pass rush.

    Again, Pass Rusher trumps Wide Out.

    WHAT SAY YE?
    I understand what your saying but I disagree. Those teams do spread the ball a lot. Greg Jennings is a great example of a #1 WR in my eyes. Also, Marques Colston I would put under that label.


  2. #17
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    Re: Nick's Post-Senior Bowl TWO ROUND Mock Draft!

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I understand what your saying but I disagree. Those teams do spread the ball a lot. Greg Jennings is a great example of a #1 WR in my eyes. Also, Marques Colston I would put under that label.
    But neither Jennings nor Colston were drafted anywhere near the first round, let alone the 14th pick. Colston was a SEVENTH round pick and Jennings was also taken in the middle rounds (not exactly sure at this point).

    Look at the Steelers; Hines Ward was a 3rd rounder and Mike Wallace was a 4th or 5th round pick.

    It's looking more and more that you can win in this league without a true, true number one receiver.

    Looking at Nick's mock both Hankerson and Young are available when Rams pick in the second round. Who is to say that one of these guys couldn't be a franchise receiver/

    WHAT SAY YE?

  3. #18
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    Re: Nick's Post-Senior Bowl TWO ROUND Mock Draft!

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    But neither Jennings nor Colston were drafted anywhere near the first round, let alone the 14th pick. Colston was a SEVENTH round pick and Jennings was also taken in the middle rounds (not exactly sure at this point).

    Look at the Steelers; Hines Ward was a 3rd rounder and Mike Wallace was a 4th or 5th round pick.

    It's looking more and more that you can win in this league without a true, true number one receiver.

    Looking at Nick's mock both Hankerson and Young are available when Rams pick in the second round. Who is to say that one of these guys couldn't be a franchise receiver/

    WHAT SAY YE?
    Jennings was round 2 (pick 52). I understand you can find "a #1 WR" in more than just the first round. That was never the discussion. You can find good players in all rounds of the draft. I prefer now not to use the cliche saying "#1 WR". I will replace that with good or talented. Yes, the Steelers have Hines Ward and Mike Wallace, both talented and good players. We don't really have that. Sure Amendola did good for us, but he doesn't scare anybody. DX showed flashes, Avery is always injured although I think he will have a good season. Clayton did good before his injury as well. Gibson has shown flashes but is inconsistent.

    I want a receiver we can rely on. All our receivers had their time last season yet non really consistently did it week in week out. Roddy White for example. He was the reliable WR down in ATL. On 3rd downs, Ryan knew where to look. Maybe Hankerson or Jones will be that guy for us. That guy that gets 8 catches a game, gets targeted 15 times, makes D coordinators lose sleep the night before they play us.

    I wouldn't be mad with us drafting Hankerson at all. I am not a huge fan of Titus Young though.

  4. #19
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    Re: Nick's Post-Senior Bowl TWO ROUND Mock Draft!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The Senior Bowl reports were mixed, from what I've read. Most acknowledge that his accuracy was still an issue, but I've also read reports that say he had two pretty good practice days in the middle of the week.

    It's kind of an interesting situation, because it seems like some of his critics not only point out the flaws of his game but do it with a strange kind of venom. You kind of saw the same thing with Tebow in some respects. But if Tebow can find a home in the first round, I have a hard time believing Locker can't.

    Washington was reportedly high on him last year, and it sounded like they spent a lot of time talking to him at the Senior Bowl. He's probably not going to come in and light the world on fire, he'll need some time to continue working on his technique and improving his skills. But as the saying goes, it only takes one team and there are plenty of QB needy teams in this class, and again, I think his intangibles are going to play a big role.
    It's tough to get a feel for what a team's true evaluation of a player is, but I have a feeling that Shanahan will take a quarterback if he likes any of the top guys available when they pick. The McNabb Experiment has not worked out very well, and it's pretty clear that Washington's quarterback of the future is not on the current roster. Yes, the Skins' receiver situation is pretty bad, but their record isn't going to improve much if they pick up a star receiver but still have some schmuck throwing to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    But neither Jennings nor Colston were drafted anywhere near the first round, let alone the 14th pick. Colston was a SEVENTH round pick and Jennings was also taken in the middle rounds (not exactly sure at this point).

    Look at the Steelers; Hines Ward was a 3rd rounder and Mike Wallace was a 4th or 5th round pick.

    It's looking more and more that you can win in this league without a true, true number one receiver.
    There are lots of ways to win in the league. For a long time, the Colts won with offense using a first round QB (Manning) throwing to first round receivers (Harrison and Wayne). The Pats won with a balance of offense and defense until their defense got too old; then they traded for a former first rounder in Randy Moss. The Steelers win with defense first and foremost.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Looking at Nick's mock both Hankerson and Young are available when Rams pick in the second round. Who is to say that one of these guys couldn't be a franchise receiver/

    WHAT SAY YE?
    At any given position, you can find successful starters in later rounds. That's the problem with using the argument for any specific position. Yes, Marques Colston was a seventh rounder. And Tom Brady was a sixth rounder. And Arian Foster was undrafted.

    But if you look at that Pro Bowl receiver roster, Roddy White, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne and Dwayne Bowe were all first round picks. That's 5 first round guys and 3 from all other rounds combined. Teams do find talent in the later rounds, but at least some luck is involved. If the team really expected a particular individual to be a future star, they'd never wait until the fourth round to pick him up. The success rate of first round picks--even though it is certainly not 100%--is still higher than the rate of any other round.

  5. #20
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    Re: Nick's Post-Senior Bowl TWO ROUND Mock Draft!

    Jake Locker is the Dan LeFevour of this draft. Over-hyped and falling. He will be the 5th QB taken (or later).

    Hated him last year, and even worse this year.

  6. #21
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    Re: Nick's Post-Senior Bowl TWO ROUND Mock Draft!

    Quote Originally Posted by Torry Holt View Post
    You did not pick Marvin Austin. Do you think he could be taken in the 3rd round ?
    He could be there in the third round, yes. As for whether or not the Rams take him, it'd probably depend heavily on interviews and how comfortable they feel with his character/intangibles.


    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Nice job!

    I certainly would have no beef with Pouncey at that spot. I'd also consider Dowling and Bailey.
    Agreed, there were a lot of intriguing guys who were available at that spot in this mock. Virginia Tech's Ryan Williams was another one I was kind of surprised at, when he ended up available.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Agreed for the most part; however, Pass Rusher > Wide Receiver IMO. Therefore best to secure one when the opportunity arises rather than to wait and hope to get one later in the draft.

    BTW this years Super Bowl is an excellent example of this concept. Pittsburgh and Green Bay were numbers 1 and 2 in the NFL in sacks, yet neither team really has what most would call a No. 1 receiver. Both get by very well with a committee approach and I would argue this makes them even tougher to defend.

    This is the same approach that New Orleans used last year in their title run. Brees would throw it to anyone of 5 or 6 receivers and nobody knew where or to whom the ball was going next. Much like Rodgers and the Packers this year.

    Also, the hated Cheatriots employ the same approach.

    At this point in time I'm starting to wonder if the concept of a bonafide Number One receiver isn't a little overblown. Sure it's nice to have one but as I believe is becoming more and more apparent, never at the expense of a player that can provide devastating pass rush.

    Again, Pass Rusher trumps Wide Out.

    WHAT SAY YE?
    I think you're mischaracterizing these teams by downplaying their use of a top receiver in favor of a committee approach. Yes, these teams do spread it around. But they also have a top receiving target who is capable of producing week in and week out.

    Pittsburgh has had Hines Ward as their #1 receiver for years, and are slowly transitioning to Mike Wallace. Wallace finished fifth in the league in receiving yards, no other Steeler cracked the Top 40.

    Green Bay's leading receiver was Donald Driver for a few years, and I believe he went to a few Pro Bowls. Now they've transitioned to Jennings, who just this year finished fourth in the league in receiving yards and second in touchdowns. No other Packer cracked the Top 40.

    You bring up New Orleans, but Colston is clearly their go-to guy. On top of that, the Saints used a first-round pick on receiver Robert Meachem in 2007, after Colston's break-out season.

    As for the Patriots, they obviously recognized the value of having talent at the receiver position because they traded for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, and had one of the best offenses the league has seen and an undefeated season up until the Super Bowl.

    Heck, let's go for another example with the Colts. They spread the ball around as well, but had a top receiving talent in Harrison for a while, then went out and got Reggie Wayne in the first round, THEN went out and got Anthony Gonzalez in the first round.

    Teams can spread the ball around and still have a go-to #1 receiver. I think when you look at a number of those teams, the reason they spread the ball around is because they have a fair amount of talent at the position, not because they have mediocre at best talent and do it because no one stands out (which probably more accurately describes the Rams). If anything, many of these teams spread the ball around because they have multiple talented targets, at both receiver and tight end in some cases.

    Yes, I generally agree that the pass rush trumps wide receiver. Of course, the Rams had a fairly good pass rush in 2010, ranking 7th in the league in sacks. They spent a second overall pick on a DE in Chris Long. So the pass rush has gotten some attention in recent years. The wide receiver position has largely fallen by the wayside; aside from spending a second round pick on Donnie Avery, the Rams have been trying to get by with the unwanted players from other teamsí rosters.

    This doesnít mean Iím saying we go WR at all costs. If the value isnít there, donít do it. I recognize the importance of finding a future RDE. But the same argument being made for receivers Ė you can find them later in the draft Ė can be made for pass rushers as well. Jared Allen, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, and Trent Cole and examples that immediately come to mind. You can hit on any position later in the draft, but the chances of doing so become smaller so itís tough to bet on getting lucky and finding that guy.

    Unfortunately the Rams only have so many picks to use, and a number of areas that could use help. Ultimately you have to determine which prospect is the best marriage between need and value. I think itís hard to argue that Jones wouldnít be one of the best combinations of both at that point.

    Whether itís through free agency or the draft though, I think the Rams need to find a legitimate talent at the position. The defense, though it has faltered at times and still has some missing pieces, has demonstrated in a number of games that it can be good enough to win with. The offense needs to catch up, because too many times it failed to convert, failed to put enough points on the board, and just did not scare the opposition.


    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    Jake Locker is the Dan LeFevour of this draft. Over-hyped and falling. He will be the 5th QB taken (or later).

    Hated him last year, and even worse this year.
    Could be. The range on Locker is going to be wide. I could see him going 10th to the Redskins, or slipping to 25th and the Seahawks, or perhaps slipping even further. In that regard, he may be more like Clausen in terms of a possible slide than he is LeFevour, who was overhyped by fans but IMO was never really in consideration for a top pick.

    But there are teams out there who are going to fall in love with Lockerís ability and intangibles, and it only takes one team to make him a first rounder. Some coach is going to look at him and think, ďThatís a guy whose problems I can fix.Ē

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