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Thread: Not Suh

  1. #16
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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by Molotov View Post
    The problem I have with drafting Suh is, I actually think our interior DL is pretty good at the moment.

    If you bring on Suh, that gives you Douzable, Ramsey, Gibson, Scott, Ryan, and Suh. Meanwhile, on the edge, we have Long, Victor, and Hall. This could all change via free agency, of course.
    IMO, every name besides Ryan on the current roster are at best depth/rotational guys. That's assuming the Rams even decide to keep all of them after watching them this season. While I understand our defense was at times handcuffed by our offensive inefficiency, I don't think you allow the kind of production this defense allowed and conclude that our interior DL is pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    Stats don't tell the whole story. McCoy has been just as disruptive as Suh in college. McCoy has a little more size, he's also got better technique and is more NFL ready.

    I've read several places that McCoy is a better DT than Suh. Also watching video on McCoy shows more.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    I said, "Stats dont' tell the whole story".
    Which is generally what people say when the stats don't support their argument as a way of completely discounting them.

    Stats alone don't tell the whole story, but they certainly contribute to the evaluation process and help illustrate what a player has accomplished on the field. McCoy is a fine prospect, worthy of a high pick in this draft. But I believe Suh is the superior prospect when the two are compared. And I say that as a guy who likes McCoy a lot as well.

    Regarding your other statements, unfortunately I generally disagree with them. I think one of the advantages Suh has over McCoy is that he's further along in his development, not the other way around. His ability to utilize his hands and his instincts for the position are simply phenominal. We'll have to wait until the combine to see who has the real size advantage and by how much, but based on the listed measurements provided by each school, Suh has a slight edge.

    As for several places saying McCoy is better, I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean or tell us, but it would be interesting to see which "places" feel that way. Based on everything I've seen and read, that's a minority opinion. Not that that by itself should mean much either, though.


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    Re: Not Suh

    BJ Raji doesn't even start for Green Bay. Ryan Pickett starts at NT.
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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    I said, "Stats dont' tell the whole story".
    I agree.

    So tell me what is the story? Because Suh is unbelievable and his size, speed, strength, character, motor, is off the charts for a defensive lineman so tell me what is your story???

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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Well, it does seem that teams in the NFC need to score more than to stop someone to score.
    Totally agree here. Look at the play off teams Saints, Vikings, Cards, Cowboys, Eagles, Packers. All were in the top ten in offense except Arizona and Phili who are inconsistent, but extremely explosive. The top 3 seeds all in the top 5 offensively.

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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    I agree with alot of what you say, but then you say Berry or Spiller.


    We have SJax, and I doubt Spiller will be on the field at the same time.

    Berry is a safety that has power. We have O.A. back there and Berry isn't going to step in and change our defense.


    I do agree that our talent at DT isn't bad, but Suh could be an elite Run stopper. You don't pay gret DT's to sack the QB. The should stop the run, create holes for the rushers, and cause havoc and pressure up the middle by not letting the OL get a big push.


    Suh is a great prospect, but I do see your agrument. A QB could greatly change our team.


    Our biggest advantage in this draft is that we are picking first in the second and third rounds as well !!!! People forget this.! THIS DRAFT IS VERY VERY DEEP !!!!

    The first 4 rounds could get starters for us in this draft, plus we have some money in free agency.
    Defensive Tackle is an important position. They control the center of the line and often require double teams that help free up your speed rushers and linebackers. Now when you run a 3-4 defense the defensive tackle becomes almost a focal point. A 4-3 defense (which we run) is helpful though because it allows you to put two big men up front, thus allowing them to take up space and minimalizing the need for a truly great defensive tackle.

    NFL defenses today are led by safeties. Those are the guys making your adjustments, those are the guys preventing the big plays, those are the guys who are coming up in run support. Almost every team in the playoffs this year has a truly dominant safety and that is the trend that the NFL is heading towards. You have to have a dominant safety in this league.

    Eric Berry is not simply a power guy. That is why he's rated higher than a guy like Taylor Mays. Berry is great in coverage, has excellent hands, can come up in run support, and has the speed to go sideline to sideline. With a good combine he could easily jump right into the discussion for #1 overall and would probably make a bigger impact than Suh in his first year.

    With the first overall pick the Rams have a lot of options this year. You mention that the draft is very deep. That is true, particularly on the defensive line where you have guys like Carlos Dunlap, Gerald McCoy, Greg Hardy, Terrance Cody, Dan Williams (who was a monster for Tennessee this year), Corey Wooton, Jerry Hughes, George Selvie, Everson Griffen (athletic freak). And that's just to name a few. You can grab a guy like Eric Berry, Rolando McClain, or even a Taylor Mays type and still find a great defensive lineman in the second or third round.

    It's far too early to settle on a pick now. This is a good draft and there are quite a few stars. It's hard to see the Rams making a wrong choice no matter who they pick.
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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    Totally agree here. Look at the play off teams Saints, Vikings, Cards, Cowboys, Eagles, Packers. All were in the top ten in offense except Arizona and Phili who are inconsistent, but extremely explosive. The top 3 seeds all in the top 5 offensively.
    Suh's team won 10 games this season in a league filled with many explosive offenses...with the exception of Suh's team.

    A lockdown defense can be surprisingly effective.

  7. #22
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    Re: Not Suh

    If Suh is as good as advertised and the rest of our D-line is good, then if we have any extra players they can be dealt for other needs...not a bad problem to have. The problem I have with the Rams and their defense (even when they won the SB in '99) was there wasn't any identity on that side of the ball. If we have Suh, Long, Atogwe, and Laurenitis then we have a strong identity for many years to come.

  8. #23
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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    I agree.

    So tell me what is the story? Because Suh is unbelievable and his size, speed, strength, character, motor, is off the charts for a defensive lineman so tell me what is your story???
    1) He doesn't have great technique, he realizes on his power to move around the smaller spread offense lines.

    2) He's played against the spread offense quite a bit.

    3) Bad knees



    You folks make it seem as if I'm a Suh hater, I'm not, I'm just not a Suh supporter while McCoy and my #1 Clausen are there.
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    Re: Not Suh

    Dude, we are 27th in the league for rush defense. How can you be comfortable with that?

    Suh had better stats than entire defensive lines. How can you pass on that?

    SUH PLEASE
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    Devaney, if you care about this team... fire the offensive coordinator!!!!

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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooselini View Post
    Dude, we are 27th in the league for rush defense. How can you be comfortable with that?

    Suh had better stats than entire defensive lines. How can you pass on that?

    SUH PLEASE
    I'm not comfortable with that, injuries killed us a bit. We need points, we lost a game 7 - 9 for crying out loud.
    RamsFan16

  11. #26
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    Re: Not Suh

    If you wanna know how Suh will change the face of our defense, just look at the Fearsome Foresome. Merlin Olsen DT was the keystone to two of the most dominating defensive lines in football history. (Rams history numbnuts...)

    One in the 60's with Rosey Grier, Lamar Lundy, and Deacon Jones.
    And again in the 70's with Jack Youngblood, Fred Dryer, and Larry Brooks.

    You gotta have that anchor in the middle to have a good D-line.

  12. #27
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    Re: Not Suh

    For all Ram fans

    I would rather draft Suh then Clausen! ! I think the Rams need more DE help then DT help. Other than Long you have Hall (32) & Little (34).

    If the Rams had a ofence that could do more than 3 and out , it would make the defence a whole alot better.

    If Rams don't resign OT A. Barron trade down take extra picks and get more line help.

    Trade back twice and pick C.J. Spiller.

    For a trade both teams have to think they did a good job. The only way the trade down to Bucs will work is the Rams willing to take 1st, 2nd & 3rd only.

    Then trade back one more time to a team looking for the top QB. Anywhere between the 5th & 9th pick for another 2nd rd pick.

    A great WCO has 2 really good RB's or a FB/RB that can catch the ball out of the back field.
    Don't forget the TE.
    QB - Bulger
    RB - S. Jackson (Bruising Back)
    RB - C.J. Spiller (Speed kills)
    TE - T. Scheffler or O. Daniels (freeagent)
    Plus 2 WR's & O-line.

    That would give QB Bulger alot of options to throw to.

    Gibson/Carricker/Scott/Ryan would be a really good DT rotation. I think those will be the starters next season.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    But isn't that a bit of a copout? If the stats were close, then you could say that. But its not even remotely close. Suh had 100 more tackles than McCoy over two years, along with more than half-again as many sacks. That kind of difference falls well outside any "margin of error," particularly when you note that the players are in the same conference and playing many of the same teams.

    McCoy is a very good prospect, and will deservedly be selected in the top 10 (probably top 5) selections of the draft.

    Suh is on another level altogether.
    amen to that and i think if you factor tackles for loss in there it would be alot higher as well... watch some highlights of suh one of these days..

    ps. having a great line automatically makes the secondary and lb group look dam near like pro bowlers... recreate the Fearsome Foursome!!! SUH please!!! Hall, Suh, Gibson/rotation, Long FTW!!!
    Last edited by Nick; -01-13-2010 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Merging back to back posts

  14. #29
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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    1) He doesn't have great technique, he realizes on his power to move around the smaller spread offense lines.

    2) He's played against the spread offense quite a bit.

    3) Bad knees
    Yes Suh

    1)This is the exact situation you want with a Rookie. Suh is a very bright, and will learn quickly.

    2)He has played against and dominated some very strong college o-lines.

    3)Don't seem to slow him down at all, if this is even true. Who says he has bad knees? I have not read that.

    Suh is a monster with an on-field motor like Ray Lewis. Passing on Suh without some kind of record-breaking draft deal would be a huge blunder.
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  15. #30
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    Re: Not Suh

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    1) He doesn't have great technique, he realizes on his power to move around the smaller spread offense lines.
    That's just not correct. He uses his hands like a seasoned NFL veteran. I've also seen him use an array of moves, including a spin move that a guy his size should not be able to make.

    2) He's played against the spread offense quite a bit.
    So did Gerald McCoy, who you seem to like. Besides, look at his numbers against teams that don't run a spread offense. They're just as good as the his numbers against the spread offense teams.

    3) Bad knees
    You say you're not a Suh hater, but to characterize him as having "bad knees" is a deliberate twisting of facts.

    Yes, he has had a knee injury in the past. But he did not miss a single game in his Junior or Senior seasons. How does that equate to "bad knees." Kind of reminds me of when people claimed that Adrian Peterson had "bad knees." I'd hate to see what kind of numbers he'd put up wih "good knees."

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