The Official 2009 NFL Combine Thread

[Nick]

If by BIGGER, you mean heavier.....then yea, Andre Smith is bigger. But lacks in height and more importantly reach (I assume, I haven't heard the numbers yet).

I haven't heard anything official on his arm length either, but it should be noted that Mayock today said that Andre Smith has "the arms of a 6’7 guy even though he’s only 6’4."

Well... if Wagoner's report is correct, I think we can end the Crabtree = Fitzgerald stuff.

I'm pretty sure Fitzgerald's official height as a prospect was under 6'3" so I don't think this is enough to completely negate the comparison, especially since there are aspects of Crabtree's game itself that compares favorably to Fitz. Personally I think he's kind of a combination of Fitz and Boldin, combining some aspects of one with some aspects of the other. If he puts up a decent time at his pro day, I don't think his lack of height drops him.

[AvengerRam]

The thing about Crabtree is this...

He was clearly a special player in college. The question is whether he'll be a special player at the pro level. It is certainly possible that his success was largely due to playing in a pass happy offense in a defense-poor conference.

When trying to predict how his skills will translate to the Pros, you have to look at indicators, which include size and speed. If he is not exceptional in either category, that raises the level of concern.

Mind you... if the Rams had the 15th pick and Crabtree was there, I'd take him in a heartbeat. But at #2, I need more assurance.

I'm looking forward to his Pro Day.

[Nick]

Combine features strong RB and WR groups, weak QB crop
By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com
Senior Analyst
Posted 1 day ago

Here is an in-depth, position-by-position breakdown of the draft prospects as they prepare for the 2009 NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis.


Quarterback

It isn't a strong year for quarterbacks, especially when you consider that the top two candidates, Matthew Stafford and Mark Sanchez, are underclassmen under 6-foot-3, and each has a glaring weakness. Stafford had a career completion rate under 60 percent at Georgia, and Sanchez made just 16 starts at USC. There is plenty of risk for teams who are at the top of the draft and need a quarterback to build a franchise around over the next 10 years.

The third quarterback on most lists, Josh Freeman, also is a junior, and he might work his way into the bottom of the first round because of his strong arm and height (6-6), but he also has issues surrounding his game.

This year's class of quarterbacks has a long way to go to match what Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco did in 2008. The Lions, Bears, Jets, Vikings and Buccaneers must really drill down into these signal-callers.


Running back

The underclassmen strengthened this draft class and hold down the top five spots. Knowshon Moreno has Tiki Barber-type skills as a runner and a receiver. Chris Wells and Shonn Greene are big backs in the mold of the Panthers' Jonathan Stewart.

In 2008, the second round produced two 1,200-yard running backs (Steve Slaton and Matt Forte), and there is some optimism league-wide that another diamond in the rough might be found in the same spot this year between Donald Brown, Rashard Jennings, Jeremiah Johnson or Javon Ringer.

Running backs are coming out of school more NFL-ready because of the amount of passing in the college game. These backs understand protection schemes and have run more routes than backs did five years ago. The Eagles, Cardinals, Bengals, Broncos and Chargers are sure to pay attention when these guys work out.


Fullback

Recently, fullbacks have been a bit of a dying breed in the NFL. However, the Ravens' success with their heavy package in 2008 might change teams' philosophy toward the position.

Don't expect a fullback to be taken in the first three rounds of the draft. However, when the time comes to grab a big blocker who also can catch the ball and occassionally run with it, Syracuse's Tony Fiammetta should be the first to go. Fiammetta would look good with the Dolphins.


Tight end

This isn't a great year for tight ends projected in the top 40 picks of the draft. Oklahoma State's Brandon Pettigrew is the class of the field, and the Buccaneers and Falcons will be tempted to grab him after they watch him in Indianapolis.

Physical issues surround three of the next four tight ends, so the medical segment of the combine should go a long way to clear up the tight end pecking order. Missouri's Chase Coffman has had foot issues for the past two years, but at 6-6 and 250 pounds, he could be a matchup nightmare in the NFL. Keep a close eye on Florida's Cornelius Ingram, who missed his senior season because of a torn anterior cruciate ligament, and Wisconsin's Travis Beckum, who missed half of the 2008 season with a broken leg.


Wide receiver

As is the case at running back, underclassmen strengthened the wide receiver position in the 2009 draft. At least six players left school early, a group led by Michael Crabtree. He caught 231 balls in two seasons at Texas Tech and has decided not to run at the combine. It remains to be seen how many of the other top wideouts follow suit and not run.

There are speed receivers (Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin and Darrius Heyward-Bey) who should all be close to dipping under 4.4 seconds in the 40-yard dash. There also are receivers who possess great size (Hakeem Nicks and Kenny Britt). Any team in need of a receiver will love the talent pool available in the first two rounds of the draft. The Ravens, Bears, Jets, Seahawks, Giants, Raiders, Chiefs and Titans all will have a shot at a good player.


Center

This is a good year for teams needing a center in the draft. California's Alex Mack could sneak into the bottom of the first round after his Senior Bowl performance, but solid candidates with legitimate chances to start early in their careers will be available in the second round.

I have spoken with Mack, Max Unger, and Jonathan Luigs, and all three have called the protections, handled multiple fronts and have plenty of playing experience. The Bills, Bengals and Broncos will like this group.


Offensive tackle

Last year's draft was great for first-round talent at offensive tackle. This year's group isn't quite as deep, but by most standards, it's another excellent crop.

As many as four tackles could be taken in the top 10 picks of the draft, and the combine should be another step toward sorting out the group, which includes Eugene Monroe, Michael Oher, Jason Smith and Andre Smith. Closing in on the top four is Eben Britton, who shouldn't make it out of the first round. Another small wave of tackles could come off the board in the second round.

Teams such as the Bengals, Jaguars, Rams, Steelers and Raiders will like what they see this weekend.


Offensive guard

It's not a year for first-round guard talent, but it rarely ever is.

Duke Robinson has received some mention as a top candidate, but many coaches are interested in watching Herman Johnson work in Indianapolis. If the combine goes as expected, the top five or six guards will be set up as second- and third-round draft picks.


Defensive end

Because of the number of teams looking for 3-4 outside linebackers and 4-3 right defensive ends, combine position work is a critical component to separating the players in this group.

Everette Brown, Brian Orakpo, Robert Ayers and Michael Johnson could all turn the group's draft prospects one way or the other.

Finding a 4-3 left defensive end big enough to play the off-tackle run and skilled enough to rush the passer is becoming tougher every year. Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert might be the leading candidates after the combine workouts. When it comes to 3-4 defensive ends, teams might look at defensive tackles instead.

The Panthers, Texans, Titans, Broncos and Redskins will watch this defensive end group work.


Defensive tackle

Two defensive tackles, B.J. Raji and Peria Jerry, are on most draft boards as potential first-round picks. Both players helped themselves at the Senior Bowl and need to continue their positive momentum at the combine.

Defensive tackle is such a position of need around the NFL that it will be critical to watch which players emerge at the combine. At least one other player will sneak into the bottom of the first round, and anyone who comes out of Indianapolis with a good height-weight-speed ratio and some solid agility in the drills will improve their stock.

The Panthers, Broncos, Colts, Bengals and Falcons are just a few of the teams hoping to uncover someone at this position at the combine.


Inside linebacker

Rey Maualuga will fit in any defensive scheme, and his Senior Bowl performance and size (260 pounds) make him a solid first-round pick in the draft.

James Laurinaitis skipped the Senior Bowl, so he has an important date with NFL teams in Indianapolis. Unless a few players test and measure well this weekend, inside linebackers mostly could be second-day picks.


Outside linebacker

This position is intermingled with the defensive ends because of schemes. There should be a buzz in Indianapolis when Aaron Curry works out. He skipped the Senior Bowl, but he told me he will compete in every event at the combine. He also told me his agent talked him out of playing in the Senior Bowl, so let's hope he doesn't do the same thing in Indianapolis.

There's four years of game tape and a solid Senior Bowl performance on Brian Cushing, so his combine workout will be a bit anticlimactic. However, there is plenty of interest in underclassman Aaron Maybin. He might have needed another year at Penn State, but he'll be in Indianapolis, where many teams will evaluate him.

The 4-3 teams looking for an outside linebacker include the Bills, Giants, Panthers, ***** and Rams, but they will be joined by 3-4 teams, including the Browns, Patriots and Packers. There's probably more demand than supply at this position.


Cornerback

Cornerbacks usually come into Indianapolis and light up the 40-yard dash and short shuttle. There should be a number of 4.3-second 40 times and a few guys dipping under the 4.0-second mark in the shuttle.

Malcolm Jenkins, Vontae Davis and D.J. Moore are the marquee names at cornerback, but keep a close eye on the workouts of Alphonso Smith, Darius Butler and Sean Smith. Fast times in the running events could lock up first-round grades for those players.

Every team needs cornerbacks, so expect officials from all 32 teams to have multiple stop watches clocking players' running times. The Ravens, Saints, Rams and Lions are just a few of the teams hoping for lots of depth at this position.


Safety

The 2009 safety pool will not go down as one of the richest in draft history. It's quite possible that no safety will come out of the combine with a first-round grade. However, there should be a solid run on strong and free safeties in the second round of the draft.

The Cowboys, Falcons and Chargers are three teams hoping someone really shines in Indianapolis this weekend.

[HUbison]

I haven't heard anything official on his arm length either, but it should be noted that Mayock today said that Andre Smith has "the arms of a 6’7 guy even though he’s only 6’4."

If Mayock's right, that will play well for his stock. The reach of a 6'7" man will go far to negate the idea of him having to move inside at the next level.

[Nick]

OT Smith will not work out at combine
Posted: Combine | Scott Hanson

OT Andre Smith, projected as a top-5 pick, announced before the bench press on Friday that he will not be working out at the combine. Smith said he will only work out at Alabama’s pro day on March 11.

NFL.com’s Steve Wyche has Smith going second overall to St. Louis in his first mock draft. And the NFL.com edit staff debated if Smith should go first overall to the Lions.

[HUbison]

OT Smith will not work out at combine
Posted: Combine | Scott Hanson

OT Andre Smith, projected as a top-5 pick, announced before the bench press on Friday that he will not be working out at the combine. Smith said he will only work out at Alabama’s pro day on March 11.

NFL.com’s Steve Wyche has Smith going second overall to St. Louis in his first mock draft. And the NFL.com edit staff debated if Smith should go first overall to the Lions.

That's a shame. I was really looking forward to seeing the three side-by-side.

[Nick]

That's a shame. I was really looking forward to seeing the three side-by-side.

I wonder if he was. Unlike Crabtree, he doesn't have an injury (to my knowledge) that he can point to as a reason not to work out.

[jbell15]

Only 6'1!!!!!!!
two inches shorter than Texas Tech had him listed as at 6'3
thoughts?

[Nick]

Only 6'1!!!!!!!
two inches shorter than Texas Tech had him listed as at 6'3
thoughts?

It's a bit of a disappointment, but the determining factor will be his forty time. If he runs a sub-4.5 then it might not hurt him that much. If he runs higher than a 4.50 at that height, he might be in for a bit of a slip. Still, I have a hard time seeing him get by Oakland if he does slide.

[HUbison]

I wonder if he was. Unlike Crabtree, he doesn't have an injury (to my knowledge) that he can point to as a reason not to work out.

Hmm, the plot thickens.

[39thebeast]

via rotoworld

Baylor LT Jason Smith repped 225 lbs 33 times during Friday's bench press drill, tied for fourth among offensive linemen.
Texas Tech's Louis Vasquez blew everyone away with 39 reps. Smith's 33 isn't quite up to Jake Long's 37 from last season, but it's still the most among this year's elite tackle prospects. He's emerging as a legit option at No. 1 overall.

Had him in my last mock, lets hope Detroit goes QB because I think this kid could be special.

[djdeeznutz]

If by BIGGER, you mean heavier.....then yea, Andre Smith is bigger. But lacks in height and more importantly reach (I assume, I haven't heard the numbers yet). In that regard, Andre Smith is the smallest of the 4, and that is why some are saying he is a Guard at the next level (ala Leonard Davis). And IMO, Jason Smith may be the most physical of them all. Don't let the "converted TE" tag fool you, Jason Smith has the killer instinct that a top-tier LT has to have.

Honestly i dont really want Andre Smith cuz he cannot take the speedy edge rushers on and he is going to do horrible at that in the combine. One of the drills for an OL in the combine a drill where a speedy guy comes off the edge and the OL has to back up and block him. So his stock drop (IMO under Oher)

I dont know about J. Smith cuz he is not use to the pro style OL type. He stood up most of the witch probably made him alot better. Im just doubting that he can convert form a TE to a College OT (all ready did it) to a NFL OT (dont think he will do that)

Both of these guys have a chance at being the best OTs or being the biggest bust ever. I dont want to take that chance so if we do take an OT i want the sure thing in Eugene Monroe.

According to Nick Wagoner's blog, Michael Crabtree is only a hair over 6'1, as opposed to 6'3, as previously reported.

Interesting.

I DEMAND A RE-TEST lol! It doesnt matter the guy could still get the ball i would post youtube links of him but then u (AvengerRam) will just edit it with the reason "NO links!" so why bother. Just open up another web browser and type in Crabtree and be wowed.

PS in not hatin on u or doggin u so chill.

That's going to make his pro day even more interesting. Is Crabtree still a top pick if he only measures in at 6'1" and runs a forty in the 4.5 range?

For the record, Wagoner is reporting that Maclin measured in an inch shorter (6'0") but over 15 pounds lighter.

I still love Crabtree's physical RAC presence on the field, but dropping him an inch or two in height is a small disappointment. At this point, I still see the Rams leaning OT with that first pick.

Yea i have to sadly admit that the Rams will draft an OT in the 1st. But il never quit campaining the best prospect in the draft. Micheal Crabtree.

Well... if Wagoner's report is correct, I think we can end the Crabtree = Fitzgerald stuff.

Yea Crabtree=Fitzgerald is totaly wrong i agree with u AvengerRam (for once)



It should really be Crabree>Fitzgerald

Yea Fitz maybe able to catch the ball really high but can he break like 15 tackles after catching the ball. In the WCO the YAC is extremly important.

Michael Crabtree=Spiderman is truly accurate.

And yea Avenger Crabtree is my brother (twice removed) so quit doggin me lol.

Only 6'1!!!!!!!
two inches shorter than Texas Tech had him listed as at 6'3
thoughts?

Im the king of excuses

Maybe Crabtree's right anckle sprain did not allow him to stand up straight. lol.

Or maybe Crabtree had an Afro wig while getting measured u never know. lol



Dont worry thou in his pro day he will wow everyone with 4.40 in the 40 and measure in a hair over 6-3.

Im just playin:

the 40 wont effect his draft status cuz he is not a burner. I dont think the hieght will either.

Let me give u an NBA draft example:

Micheal Beasly was 6-11 (listed) when he declared for the draft. 2 months before he got measured at 6-9. Then like 3 weeks before the draft he became 6-6. The NBA analysts were joking saying if he entered the draft next year he would be 5-5. lol. However eventhough he was thought to be 6-11 he was 6-6 when it was draft time he still got selected at #2 cuz people knew he could rebound and shoot.

Same with Crabtree. Doesnt matter if he 6-1 or 6-3 come April 25th everyone knows he catches the ball with his hands (not chest) and can break tackles and get u those tough yards like a S-jax on the Rams can. He will still run the WR catch drills at the combine. where scouts can see that he has good hands.

[Weddle]

It seems silly to say we'd discount him for this height issue even though we've all seen his game tapes, but I have to agree

[Nick]

Top Bench Press Results for Offensive Lineman

Name                Reps	 
--------------------------
Vasquez, Louis        39
Bright, Travis        34
Garcia, Juan          34
Boone, Alex           33
Shipley, A.Q.         33
Smith, Jason          33
Felix, Robby          33
Cooper, Jon           31
Meredith, Jamon       31
Feinga, Ray           30
Bruggeman, Rob        30
Wood, Eric            30
Fletcher, Alex        30

Jason Smith could come out of this thing with a legitimate case to be the top OT in this class. I'm assuming Monroe's absence from this list means he didn't crack the 30 mark; that's not necessarily a concern, though.

[39thebeast]

Monroe got 23, not great just decent