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  1. #1
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    Here's how it works.

    1) Post an argument for one of the two players.
    2) The argument should be no more than 5 sentences long.
    3) If you are arguing for Dorsey, post in yellow. If you are arguing for Long, post in Blue.(When you post, click on the toolbar icon "A," and a color choice box will open).
    4) TRY TO POST ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN MADE IN A PREVIOUS POST. IF YOU ARE RESPONDING TO A SPECIFIC ARGUMENT, QUOTE THE ARGUMENT YOU ARE COUNTERING.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -04-24-2008 at 02:08 PM.


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    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    I'll get this party started.

    Glenn Dorsey
    I fear that passing on him could result in a Sam Bowie/Michael Jordan scenario. While Chris Long fills a greater need, and is a great prospect, I can't shake the nagging feeling that Dorsey might be a real, special, talent.

  3. #3
    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    In the '95 draft we passed on Warren Sapp for Kevin Carter. Granted there were several reasons for this choice, but one of them was that we NEEDED a DE more so. You see, we already had a quick, penetrating DT named Demarco Farr and the Rams "braintrust" (be still my heart) decided to go with Carter even though Sapp was the highest rated defensive player in the draft that year. If history repeats itself (and it does) we are once again in the same situation. I say we show that we learned something from prior mistakes and select Glen Dorsey our first pick in this draft.

    WHAT SAY YE?
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -04-24-2008 at 03:21 PM.

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    laram0's Avatar
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    In the '95 draft we passed on Warren Sapp for Kevin Carter. Granted there were several reasons for this choice, but one of them was that we NEEDED a DE more so. You see, we already had a quick, penetrating DT named Demarco Farr and the Rams "braintrust" (be still my heart) decided to go with Carter even though Sapp was the highest rated defensive player in the draft that year. If history repeats itself (and it does) we are once again in the same situation. I say we show that we learned something from prior mistakes and select Glen Dorsey our first pick in this draft.

    WHAT SAY YE?


    We won the Superbowl with Kevin Carter.

    I say we go with C. Long because of our team needs. We were very poor at rushing the opposing QB last season. Will Witherspoon led the team in sacks which is nice but really the sack leader should be a DE. I'm not saying it will be C. Long but with his presence on the field along with Carriker and Ryan things should loosen up for Little and hopefully he returns to his sackmaster form.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -04-24-2008 at 03:23 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    The giants proved last year that a good pass rush can go a long way and can cover up for a pretty mediocre secondary. He doesn't have an injury concerns, which will make a nice change from most of the people on the rams roster. Lastly i'd rather see a young guy like Ryan starting in the middle than an older guy like James Hall starting on the outside.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -04-24-2008 at 04:11 PM.

  6. #6
    Nick_Weasel's Avatar
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    Long and Dorsey are similar in terms of talent, ability, etc. But...

    #1 Long fills a much greater need.

    #2 Long has no injury concerns.

    #3 Long allows Carriker to continue to develop where he's showed great promise.

    #4 DE is a more important position than DT, generally speaking.

  7. #7
    Mooselini's Avatar
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Weasel View Post
    Long and Dorsey are similar in terms of talent, ability, etc. But...

    #1 Long fills a much greater need.

    #2 Long has no injury concerns.

    #3 Long allows Carriker to continue to develop where he's showed great promise.

    #4 DE is a more important position than DT, generally speaking.

    Great post Weasel, I couldn't have said it better myself.

    Chris Long has hall of fame genes. Not only has he been around professional football growing up, but his dad was a hall of fame player. I dont think anyone couldve taught this kid better than his own dad.

    Long doesn't have a major injury concern. Dorsey's injury isnt a concern, but trust me when I say this, something that doesn't heal correctly can ruin you. TRUST ME.

    Carriker has shown us what he can do. Ryan has shown some promise as well. If we get Chris Long, like you mentioned, he can get the two in the middle to learn and improve. Especially with Glover who can teach the two young ones.

    We need a DE, bad. Even with a good interior, if your ends can't do much, then you can forget about it. Witherspoon is an option, but his primary mission isn't to sack the QB every play. If we have a great pass rush from Chris Long, Witherspoon can make an impact elsewhere on the field too.

    DE's typically cost more to get also. As we've seen this offseason, several DT's were traded for third rounders, etc. A DE (like Allen) was for a first round and third round. As you can tell, there are two great pass rushers in the first round, why pass up on either of them.

  8. #8
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    Dorsey makes everyone around him better like Michael Jordan. Yes Michael Jordan. He wasn't asked to get sacks he was asked to take up blockers and make the guys around him better and still got 7 sacks. He'll give us a dynamic duo on the inside and use Carriker's versatility to the fullest. Tyson Jackson, Kirsten Pittman, Al Woods all average guys who are taken to an above average lvl becuase of Dorsey. Jackson 295 not extremely fast and still getting sacks kinda like a guy we have.

  9. #9
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    .
    I hope the Rams are smokescreein', they probably are, but they have made so many blunders and had so much craziness, sometimes I wonder.

    Now the Rams office is talking up McFadden? Which is scary - but we've exhibited that, 'we don't need anyone to block for us,' attitude before.

    I hope they know what they are doing, because I have my doubts.

    Sign me up for LONG.
    Last edited by HUbison; -04-24-2008 at 07:12 PM.

  10. #10
    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Weasel View Post
    Long and Dorsey are similar in terms of talent, ability, etc. But...

    #1 Long fills a much greater need.

    #2 Long has no injury concerns.

    #3 Long allows Carriker to continue to develop where he's showed great promise.

    #4 DE is a more important position than DT, generally speaking.


    Let's review your post bit by bit, shall we? You stated that "Long and Dorsey are similar in terms of talent." How do you know this? From what I've been able to gather the majority of teams (and most especially the Rams) rate Dorsey the better prospect. Just how much better is, of course, anybody's guess; however, imho, I think that Dorsey is at least rated significantly superior to Long.

    1.) Needs are subject to change at a moments notice. Did you read Jim Thomas' article yesterday? He did a wonderful analysis about the allegedly "deep" Rams DT position. An injury or a suspension can change things muy pronto in the NFL.

    2.) And according to the Rams neither does Glen Dorsey. Seriously now, what can you say about a guy that never missed in a game in college? That he's injury prone?

    3.) But Carriker's main value may just be that he is a versatile player capable of playing anywhere along the D-line. And, at this point, nobody really knows just which position (if any) he may be best suited for. Also, not to disparage Adam, but he in all likelihood will never be the UT that Dorsey is projected to be.

    4.) Actually it is usually the other way around. It is very difficult to find 300+ Lbs. men that can move and play with quickness and speed in the trenches. Yes I know that the NFL places a premium on pass rushers, but B. Devaney himself said that Long was not a natural pass rusher. He's just another high motor guy and you can find those elsewhere in the draft.

    I hope that I've answered your concerns to your satisfaction.

    WHAT SAY YE?
    Last edited by HUbison; -04-24-2008 at 07:11 PM.

  11. #11
    Bar-bq's Avatar
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    You see, we already had a quick, penetrating DT named Demarco Farr and the Rams "braintrust" (be still my heart) decided to go with Carter even though Sapp was the highest rated defensive player in the draft that year.

    WHAT SAY YE?
    If Sapp really was the highest rated player in the draft that year, why in the world would he have been taken Twelfth? It seems to me like a projected #1 prospect would sit somewhere in the vicinity of that pick, if he was passed for Numero Uno.


    Chris Long is my guy. I believe all of the Dorsey talk is hype.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post



    Let's review your post bit by bit, shall we? You stated that "Long and Dorsey are similar in terms of talent." How do you know this? From what I've been able to gather the majority of teams (and most especially the Rams) rate Dorsey the better prospect. Just how much better is, of course, anybody's guess; however, imho, I think that Dorsey is at least rated significantly superior to Long.

    1.) Needs are subject to change at a moments notice. Did you read Jim Thomas' article yesterday? He did a wonderful analysis about the allegedly "deep" Rams DT position. An injury or a suspension can change things muy pronto in the NFL.

    2.) And according to the Rams neither does Glen Dorsey. Seriously now, what can you say about a guy that never missed in a game in college? That he's injury prone?

    3.) But Carriker's main value may just be that he is a versatile player capable of playing anywhere along the D-line. And, at this point, nobody really knows just which position (if any) he may be best suited for. Also, not to disparage Adam, but he in all likelihood will never be the UT that Dorsey is projected to be.

    4.) Actually it is usually the other way around. It is very difficult to find 300+ Lbs. men that can move and play with quickness and speed in the trenches. Yes I know that the NFL places a premium on pass rushers, but B. Devaney himself said that Long was not a natural pass rusher. He's just another high motor guy and you can find those elsewhere in the draft.

    I hope that I've answered your concerns to your satisfaction.

    WHAT SAY YE?
    I do not know whether Long or Dorsey is the "better" player, but I do know there is a split over which is the better prospect, though I readily admit there are probably more in the Dorsey camp than in the Long camp.

    re #1 - Yes I read that article, but you do not draft somebody #2 overall to solve "depth" issues.

    re #2 - I didn't say he's injury prone, but I did suggest he has some injury concerns, which should be obvious.

    re #3 - Just because Carriker could play DE does not mean he will be as dominant there as he could be at DT or that there is no cost to moving him around.

    re #4 - Just because C. Long plays the run well doesn't mean he is bad against the pass, and just because he is "high motor" doesn't mean he's unathletic.

  13. #13
    shower beers's Avatar
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Weasel View Post


    re #4 - Just because C. Long plays the run well doesn't mean he is bad against the pass, and just because he is "high motor" doesn't mean he's unathletic.
    I don't think he meant or said that Long is not athletic, I think he meant that Dorsey is the more athletically gifted player, which is something that you can't coach.



    Still in the Dorsey camp.

  14. #14
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    Re: The Official 48 Hour Dorsey/Long Debate Thread

    1. Chris Long is a rare kind of defensive lineman who wears the offensive lineman down over the course of the game rather than vice versa and therefore is more likely to make plays late in the game when they matter most.

    2. The draft is notoriously difficult to predict, and the defensive tackle position has an unusually high percentage of busts in the first round (it seems like I saw somewhere that only first round receivers have a higher bust percentage).

    3. If one player already consistently draws double teams, another player is not going to draw them "better"; either the other team double teams you or they don't (and last year they did because our interior linemen were getting more pressure on the quarterback than the defensive ends were).

    4. Both Dorsey and Long faced constant double teams throughout their entire college careers, but compare their stats:

    Dorsey (entire 4-year career): 13 sacks, 27 TFL, 7 QB pressures, 4 passes deflected, 1 FF
    Long (senior year only): 14 sacks, 19 TFL, 23 QB pressures, 9 passes deflected, 2 FF, 1 interception, 1 blocked kick

    5. Long was among the top defensive linemen in most of the Combine drills, whereas none of Dorsey's numbers particularly stand out.

  15. #15
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    You cant coach a guy to never stop. Chris doesnt stop, he will always be there giving 100% with great athletism and the greater skill and technique. If you want a guy whos athleticly gifted, there are a few you can take, if you want one who works hard everyday to be a great athelte and works everyday learning and wanting to learn and tries to better himself for the team, then C. Long is the man.

    He is smart, strong, high powered and doesnt take anything for granted, he does what he does because he believes it is a gift to play and will never stop trying to better himself.

    He is our man hands down!!!
    Last edited by Tampa_Ram; -04-25-2008 at 02:33 AM.

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