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  1. #76
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Maybe Kyle Rudolph is the BPA in some people's eyes, but for a team with as many holes as we have, you have to make a pick that matches both value and need. This is a luxury pick at best. We have so many more pressing needs where decent players were still available that if this is our pick I would be absolutely disgusted. Much respect to VegasRam who is a great poster on this site, but I'd have a hard time thinking of a pick that I would hate more than Kyle Rudolph. Absolutely horrible.


  2. #77
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cfh128 View Post
    Maybe Kyle Rudolph is the BPA in some people's eyes, but for a team with as many holes as we have, you have to make a pick that matches both value and need. This is a luxury pick at best. We have so many more pressing needs where decent players were still available that if this is our pick I would be absolutely disgusted. Much respect to VegasRam who is a great poster on this site, but I'd have a hard time thinking of a pick that I would hate more than Kyle Rudolph. Absolutely horrible.
    Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!

    Seriously, though... I like Michael Hoomanwanui as much as the next guy, but do you really feel we can conclusively state that he will be the long term answer at TE?

  3. #78
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    I would have prefered Torrey Smith, but rudolph is a solid selection. Smith reminds me of Greg Jennings with more speed and bad hands. He's a project, but I think his development will pay off

    Rudolph is a better prospect than Illinois Mike, but McDaniels doesn't use TE's alot in his system. However the same could be said about the Pats before 2010. I like Rudolph he reminds me alot of Rob Gronkowski if he is there when we are picking I wouldn't mind selecting him at all.

  4. #79
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!

    Seriously, though... I like Michael Hoomanwanui as much as the next guy, but do you really feel we can conclusively state that he will be the long term answer at TE?
    Its not so much that Michael Hoomanwanui is definitely the long term answer at TE, as the fact that our new offensive coordinator has a history of under utilizing TE's and we have much more pressing needs. I could make an argument that every single player picked after Rudolph in this mock draft would have been a better selection. Our OLB's are a joke, our safeties are nothing to write home about, we could arguably use an upgrade at both guard spots, we dont have a game changing WR, we dont have a backup RB, we could use an infusion of youth and talent all along the DL.... and we spend a 2nd round pick on a TE? A position that McDaniels hardly uses where we actually already have some potential? If this is the way we intend to draft then we may as well spend our 3rd round pick on the best long snapper available.

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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cfh128 View Post
    Its not so much that Michael Hoomanwanui is definitely the long term answer at TE, as the fact that our new offensive coordinator has a history of under utilizing TE's and we have much more pressing needs. I could make an argument that every single player picked after Rudolph in this mock draft would have been a better selection. Our OLB's are a joke, our safeties are nothing to write home about, we could arguably use an upgrade at both guard spots, we dont have a game changing WR, we dont have a backup RB, we could use an infusion of youth and talent all along the DL.... and we spend a 2nd round pick on a TE? A position that McDaniels hardly uses where we actually already have some potential? If this is the way we intend to draft then we may as well spend our 3rd round pick on the best long snapper available.
    I absolutely concur.

  6. #81
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cfh128 View Post
    Its not so much that Michael Hoomanwanui is definitely the long term answer at TE, as the fact that our new offensive coordinator has a history of under utilizing TE's and we have much more pressing needs. I could make an argument that every single player picked after Rudolph in this mock draft would have been a better selection. Our OLB's are a joke, our safeties are nothing to write home about, we could arguably use an upgrade at both guard spots, we dont have a game changing WR, we dont have a backup RB, we could use an infusion of youth and talent all along the DL.... and we spend a 2nd round pick on a TE? A position that McDaniels hardly uses where we actually already have some potential? If this is the way we intend to draft then we may as well spend our 3rd round pick on the best long snapper available.
    Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily argue the best player available logic on a pure talent basis, but this does seem like the kind of move you see more from teams that can afford to do it. Landing this year's John Carlson just isn't a real exciting pick.

    Torrey Smith would be probably the more conventional pick. DL and WR, WR and DL...it's in practically every mock on the Internet, and what we've really lacked is a legitimate big play threat.

    Cannon would also have been an interesting option, although some might also say that it would be a luxury pick to go offensive line in round 2. But just imagine a nearly 360-lb. workout warrior who is athletic enough to play tackle lining up next to an aggressive drive-blocker like Jason Smith on the right side of our line.

    You could also argue need at most positions on the defense over TE as well.

  7. #82
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Wow.....

    all of the other ClanRammers, used to laugh and call him names,
    they wouldn't let Kyle Rudolph, join in any St. Louis Ram games...


    Guys, I get the notion that TE is not a sexy pick. Except for Vernon Davis a few years ago, TE is NEVER a sexy pick. But as AV said, this isn't about selecting a TE, but rather selecting the best "receiver" on the board; which Rudolph probably is.

    I'm not knocking Torrey Smith. He's a "pillar" guy, who (if he gets a little stick'em on his hands...."coach, you know this don't look natural") will be a solid pick up. However, to be a nitpicker, Smith is a flanker. And just like slot, flanker is a position that this team already has covered. What they truly need is a split end.

    But with that said, Rudolph has lined up in several positions, so he's not tied to the true TE position either. And has vertical ability up the seam. They keeps safeties from cheating over, and thereby making our current corp of receivers better.

    I'm not saying that Rudolph is or is not my pick in this situation, but I don't think it's the apocalyptic pick that some have made it out to be either. If we take Rudolph in this situation, he will make the offense better.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #83
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cfh128 View Post
    Maybe Kyle Rudolph is the BPA in some people's eyes, but for a team with as many holes as we have, you have to make a pick that matches both value and need. This is a luxury pick at best. We have so many more pressing needs where decent players were still available that if this is our pick I would be absolutely disgusted. Much respect to VegasRam who is a great poster on this site, but I'd have a hard time thinking of a pick that I would hate more than Kyle Rudolph. Absolutely horrible.
    I can't completely disagree with you, (although absolutely horrible may be a tad strong); that said however, in your response you cited VALUE and need, yet failed to name anyone specific. The VALUE at RB and WR, (not pressing needs in a lot of people's opinions), was not there, and the VALUE OLB's were 3-4 types, the VALUE CB , who I still like, seems injury prone, there were NO Safeties, the VALUE DT had some anti-pillar issues, and Guards will be available in the third. That was my thought process anyway.

    Rudolph was the surest thing from a VALUE standpoint, and the offense last year would have benefitted greatly from having the SAME TE in the game two weeks in a row. As far as McDaniels and TE's, it's still a little early to make that call.

    ...and I'd still like to see a few names.

    Edit: I do admire your passion and devotion CFR, in going this ballistic over an internal Mock Draft.
    Last edited by VegasRam; -04-13-2011 at 11:44 AM.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  9. #84
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    This is the worst TE class ever...and we reach for a TE in Round 2 when we have other wholes to fill.

    This pick wouldn't help us win games next season. It is not realistic since McD stays away from TE's to begin with.

    Insert any OLB< DE< DT< OG< available and it would be a better pick than Rudolph for the Rams....

    Honestly, LeShoure falling to 46 is crazy too.....

  10. #85
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    This is the worst TE class ever...and we reach for a TE in Round 2 when we have other wholes to fill.

    The pick's debatable, but one thing Rudolph is NOT at #47, is a reach.

    This pick wouldn't help us win games next season. It is not realistic since McD stays away from TE's to begin with.

    Actually it will help, and we still don't know since McD has never had one.

    Insert any OLB< DE< DT< OG< available and it would be a better pick than Rudolph for the Rams....

    Please do.

    Honestly, LeShoure falling to 46 is crazy too.....
    We finally agree, as I REALLY wanted him.
    Last edited by VegasRam; -04-13-2011 at 11:42 AM.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  11. #86
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    The thing about the TE pick is.................LINEHAN FLASHBACK!

  12. #87
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Wow.....

    all of the other ClanRammers, used to laugh and call him names,
    they wouldn't let Kyle Rudolph, join in any St. Louis Ram games...


    Guys, I get the notion that TE is not a sexy pick. Except for Vernon Davis a few years ago, TE is NEVER a sexy pick. But as AV said, this isn't about selecting a TE, but rather selecting the best "receiver" on the board; which Rudolph probably is.

    I'm not knocking Torrey Smith. He's a "pillar" guy, who (if he gets a little stick'em on his hands...."coach, you know this don't look natural") will be a solid pick up. However, to be a nitpicker, Smith is a flanker. And just like slot, flanker is a position that this team already has covered. What they truly need is a split end.
    I think that's debatable. Mark Clayton lines up in the X "split end" spot. We resign him, and he's possibly our #2 receiver on the current roster behind Amendola, whose most natural spot would be at the Y "slot" position. That leaves Donnie Avery (who hasn't gone deep much since 2009) and Laurent Robinson (who apparently can't run deep routes like he used to) as our best Z "flankers". If you add Julio Jones to that list, you find room for him at split end, but otherwise what we really need is that Z guy to stretch the defense. At least in my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by VegasRam View Post
    I can't completely disagree with you, (although absolutely horrible may be a tad strong); that said however, in your response you cited VALUE and need, yet failed to name anyone specific. The VALUE at RB and WR, (not pressing needs in a lot of people's opinions), was not there, and the VALUE OLB's were 3-4 types, the VALUE CB , who I still like, seems injury prone, there were NO Safeties, the VALUE DT had some anti-pillar issues, and Guards will be available in the third. That was my thought process anyway.
    I can certainly see that rationale, and I particularly agree on the point about OLBs (as you might guess from my statements in other threads). If Rudolph has the ability to stretch the seam, then it's a decent pick. Part of my concern about this pick, though, is that Rudolph is coming back from surgery and reviews are mixed on his speed.

    Scott Wright says he is "Not explosive, lacking top acceleration and quickness" and "Doesn't get a lot of separation and catches contested", although in the end, he says the guy is still a first round talent as a balanced tight end. The fact that he tried to play with three tendons ripped off the bone certainly speaks to his grit.

    Now I've seen other sources that say he's fast and a vertical threat, but there's also the fact that he ran a 4.78 and a 4.80 at his pro day to account for. Just for the sake of reference, Mayock said he'd be looking to come in in the mid-4.6s if he wanted to cement a first round selection and the amazing Joe Klopfenstein ran a 4.56. Most scouting reports I've seen say Rudolph also gives good effort in the blocking game but needs to be stronger to really be effective. So the overall impression I get is a good receiver but not that fast, a good effort blocker but not that strong. He's been a semi-finalist for the Mackey Award two years running but has had to have surgery and missed games for medical reasons both years. For a great receiving tight end, 33 receptions, 364 yards and 3 TDs doesn't leap off the paper as a career year. So the question to me is whether this guy really is a Gronkowski or a Klopfenstein waiting to happen. Is he really a first round talent or is his stock inflated a little bit because he's the best available in what appears to be a weak year for tight ends?

  13. #88
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    I think that's debatable. Mark Clayton lines up in the X "split end" spot. We resign him, and he's possibly our #2 receiver on the current roster behind Amendola, whose most natural spot would be at the Y "slot" position. That leaves Donnie Avery (who hasn't gone deep much since 2009) and Laurent Robinson (who apparently can't run deep routes like he used to) as our best Z "flankers". If you add Julio Jones to that list, you find room for him at split end, but otherwise what we really need is that Z guy to stretch the defense. At least in my opinion.



    I can certainly see that rationale, and I particularly agree on the point about OLBs (as you might guess from my statements in other threads). If Rudolph has the ability to stretch the seam, then it's a decent pick. Part of my concern about this pick, though, is that Rudolph is coming back from surgery and reviews are mixed on his speed.

    Scott Wright says he is "Not explosive, lacking top acceleration and quickness" and "Doesn't get a lot of separation and catches contested", although in the end, he says the guy is still a first round talent as a balanced tight end. The fact that he tried to play with three tendons ripped off the bone certainly speaks to his grit.

    Now I've seen other sources that say he's fast and a vertical threat, but there's also the fact that he ran a 4.78 and a 4.80 at his pro day to account for. Just for the sake of reference, Mayock said he'd be looking to come in in the mid-4.6s if he wanted to cement a first round selection and the amazing Joe Klopfenstein ran a 4.56. Most scouting reports I've seen say Rudolph also gives good effort in the blocking game but needs to be stronger to really be effective. So the overall impression I get is a good receiver but not that fast, a good effort blocker but not that strong. He's been a semi-finalist for the Mackey Award two years running but has had to have surgery and missed games for medical reasons both years. For a great receiving tight end, 33 receptions, 364 yards and 3 TDs doesn't leap off the paper as a career year. So the question to me is whether this guy really is a Gronkowski or a Klopfenstein waiting to happen. Is he really a first round talent or is his stock inflated a little bit because he's the best available in what appears to be a weak year for tight ends?
    Brilliantly put. He is boosted because he is the best of the worst. I would prefer a plethora of draftee's over him in the 2nd round.

  14. #89
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    Good posts all. And this is not personal. Question for all the hindsight analysts.

    Your Pick, and why.

    (I guarantee you - I could take everyone of the 46 prior picks, and pick a side, so tell me who you want(ed), and why. Otherwise...).
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  15. #90
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    Re: Official ClanRam Scouts Mock Draft Discussion Thread

    I think Spags could be tempted by Marvin Austin but the inconsistent effort reminds me too much of Jimmy Kennedy

    Dowling is interesting because he could play corner and safety, but I don't think he would be a safety that fits Spags system. I think with Bartell and Fletcher the need may be elsewhere with this pick, especially having grabbed guys like Justin King and Jerome Murphy in recent drafts

    In the end though the value seems to be either Rudolph or Torrey Smith

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