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Thread: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

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    A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Peter Bukowski>INSIDE THE NFL DRAFT
    SI.com
    Feb. 3, 2014

    A once-in-a-lifetime prospect? Scouts break down Jadeveon Clowney

    By now, you've seen the play. Late in the fourth quarter of the 2013 Outback Bowl, Michigan's Devin Gardner goes to hand off to the diminutive Vincent Smith. Then it happens.

    A flash of crimson enters the screen and the 6-foot-6, 274-pound semi-truck known as Jadeveon Clowney hits Smith like the play was designed to be a handoff to the Gamecocks' outstanding defensive end. The legend wasn't born there -- Clowney was the No. 1 overall player as a preps star at South Pointe (S.C.) High -- but it was solidified.

    The best defensive player since Ndamukong Suh? Heisman Trophy winner Charles Woodson? Some have said Lawrence Taylor. Suffice to say, if Clowney hits his ceiling, he could be one of the best prospects to come out of college in a decade -- perhaps a generation.

    He converts speed to power like few edge rushers can, runs down plays from the backside like a linebacker, and plans to burn down the combine with unheard of numbers for a player of his size.

    One former NFL talent evaluator described Clowney like this: "He has the speed and first step to get by blockers before they can even get their hands on him. When [linemen] overcompensated for his speed, he'd bury his body in their chest and bull-rush his blocker into the QB's lap."

    If you thought the Smith hit was the highlight of Clowney's career, wait until he runs a 4.45 40-yard dash -- it's been rumored for at least a year that Clowney would run sub-4.6, maybe even sub-4.5 -- at the NFL combine later this month.

    Critics have pointed to Clowney's lack of production this season for South Carolina, insisting he was out of shape or didn't give maximum effort. And to be sure, the statistical dropoff is stark. As a sophomore in 2012, Clowney posted a nation-leading 23.5 tackles for loss and 13.5 sacks in America's best college football conference, the SEC.

    As a junior, he had just 11.5 TFLs and only three sacks.

    But if you ask personnel evaluators about Clowney's statistical decline, they basically just shrug.

    "The interesting aspect of Clowney is the dynamic change from 2012 to '13," explained former Tampa Bay Buccaneers team operations coordinator Joe Bussell. "When watching Clowney on film last season, teams weren't prepared for the raw brutality that he brought to the game. He destroyed left tackles and left guards when matched up one-on-one. He couldn't be blocked in the run game or the pass game."

    But then, Bussell said, Clowney became a victim of his own success. Teams accounted for him with two, and sometimes three blockers. Missouri intentionally ran the ball to the opposite side of the formation from Clowney.

    But for an NFL defense, this attention is an asset. When teams have to devote multiple blockers to one defender, it frees up other players to make plays.

    Rotoworld's NFL Draft guru Josh Norris made the case for disruption over statistical production early this year.

    "I consider Clowney a 'rare' prospect," Norris told SI.com. "I almost never use that word in terms of a full evaluation. Prospects can have rare traits, but very, very seldom is the total package 'rare'. He will be the fourth I have evaluated. The others are Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh and Andrew Luck."

    But one NFC scout found flaws he considered more than just nits to pick: Clowney isn't as refined a prospect as other, similarly elite pass rushers of the past few years.

    "Just as a player, you really like what he brings to the table and what he could become: a perennial Pro Bowler and those type of things," the scout said. "But is he going to become a Day 1 starter? I really don't know that.

    "Aldon Smith, watching him in college, he was pretty raw, but he was further along, in my opinion, than Clowney is. But obviously, Clowney is more athletic than him, so I don't know."

    As far as the hyperbole surrounding Clowney as a once-in-a-generation talent? The scout who said Suh was the highest-graded player he'd ever scouted was somewhat dubious.

    "He could be [Julius] Peppers in time. But to say he's going to walk in the league Day 1 and rip it up, tear it up, like Ndamukong Suh or Aldon Smith or Von Miller? It's hard for me to say that ... He's not a better rusher than Von Miller.

    "If you're talking about a guy who's going to get home and get to the passer, maybe he's a top-five prospect in the past decade. You could say that, but just the best? I don't know if you can say that about Clowney."

    It speaks to Clowney's ceiling as a player that even those who question his ability to be a Day 1 impact player also believe his talent is among the best of the last decade.

    Former Philadelphia Eagles scout John Middlekauff told SI.com he was more concerned about Clowney's mental makeup in terms of potential red flags (he also believes Clowney is a superior prospect to the aforementioned Aldon Smith).

    "I have no reservations about his physical attributes and upside. To me, it's more the off-the-field stuff. I want to know what makes this guy tick," Middlekauf said.

    The questions are less about off-the-field issues, and more about motivation. Does Clowney love football? It was a question that came up this past season when some wondered if Clowney had been milking an injury to protect his draft stock. Does he have the right mindset to be an elite defensive player? Middlekauf even mentioned Lawrence Taylor as a player who was a major problem off the field, but his instability made him the perfect, relentless rusher. All of this is a way of wondering if Clowney is perhaps just a physically gifted athlete who happened to play football because he was really good at it, not because it was a passion.

    Even without being able to go through the process and interview Clowney, Middlekauf said, "He'll be a terror."

    Bussell was more effusive in his praise of Clowney.

    "Clowney is one of those rare prospects that has an astronomically high ceiling while showing both polish and room to get better," Bussell noted.

    "When comparing Clowney to past draft prospects, the way teams have to adjust to him reminds me of the way teams adjusted to Lawrence Taylor. I would put Clowney in that same class, and ahead of, top-notch edge rushing prospects Mario Williams and Von Miller."

    That narrative about Clowney being a once-in-a-generation player? Bussell was fully on board.

    "Along the defensive line, he grades out better than any prospect I've seen based on the combination of size, athleticism and instincts. Ndamukong Suh was one of the best defensive line prospects I ever graded, and Clowney looks to be a better prospect than Suh. Clowney is a special talent that only comes around once or twice in a generation."

    NFL Films' Greg Cosell summed up the story on South Carolina's outstanding prospect like this: "Whether Clowney is a once-in-a-generation player, or just a damn good pass rusher that every team would love to have, it doesn't matter. He's a really good pass rusher."

    Clowney's place in history as a prospect makes for good fodder for barroom debates, but it has little bearing on whether or not he's the No. 1 overall pick.

    Texans owner Bob McNair has already heaped public praise on Clowney and apparently even went to star J.J. Watt to make sure Clowney would have him in his corner should Houston spend its top pick on the college star.

    "He is a remarkable player. He's one of these players that's really a once-in-every-10-years kind of physical specimen that comes along," McNair said in an interview on the team's website.

    That being said, Clowney is hardly a lock, or even the favorite to be the No. 1 overall pick. That honor belongs to Teddy Bridgewater, who certainly isn't on the same level as Clowney in terms of his stature as an ultra-elite talent.

    Coincidently, the last defensive player in Clowney's stratosphere was Suh, who went No. 2, behind Sam Bradford -- a player Bussell feels is the closest recent comparison for Bridgewater. So far, Bradford has underwhelmed while Suh, despite occasional lapses in judgment, has proved to be one of the most disruptive interior players in the league. In other words, Detroit seems to have gotten the better end of that pair of selections.

    Clowney possesses the type of talent to make any team who passes on him look inept. Just ask Vincent Smith what happens when you underestimate the impact Clowney can have on a game.


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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Ultimately, barring something very drastic, I don't think anyone's mind is going to change in the next couple of months on Clowney.

    Like most Clowney articles, there's enough in here for his supporters to salivate over and enough in here for those with questions to feel further justified. One thing I hope is finally put to bed through this is the previous notion that Clowney's motivational or work ethic concerns were mere inventions of message board critics. It sounds very much like that's something scouts are wrestling with as well.

    In the end, the only opinion that matters is that of Jeff Fisher and the Rams organization. I don't think they should take Clowney, but if they've done their homework and feel he really does live up to the hype, then I can understand why they'd take him and I hope they are able to get that kind of play out of him consistently.
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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    I keep laughing when I read how he's going to put up amazing numbers at the combine. Yet he was so banged up and injured during the season he couldn't put up amazing numbers then. Guess a few weeks off and he's all healed up.
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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    One thing I hope is finally put to bed through this is the previous notion that Clowney's motivational or work ethic concerns were mere inventions of message board critics. It sounds very much like that's something scouts are wrestling with as well.
    Bingo.

    What Clowney does on the field in Indy is really nothing more than a sideshow. Clowney will make/lose his money at the Combine 15 minutes at a time in the interview suites.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Bingo.

    What Clowney does on the field in Indy is really nothing more than a sideshow. Clowney will make/lose his money at the Combine 15 minutes at a time in the interview suites.
    Agree, I'm much more interested in how his interview goes then on what time he runs the 40 in

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    The one thing that caught my eyes was the scout who say he's not ready to start. If that's the case, I can see the Rams more likely to draft him. I know it is odd to say that he "fits better" if he can't start, but it means that he can develop as a prospect for 1-2 years and then take over for Long when dump him to pay Quinn.

    I still don't think its right play, but at least it makes to me.

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by chiguy View Post
    The one thing that caught my eyes was the scout who say he's not ready to start. If that's the case, I can see the Rams more likely to draft him. I know it is odd to say that he "fits better" if he can't start, but it means that he can develop as a prospect for 1-2 years and then take over for Long when dump him to pay Quinn.

    I still don't think its right play, but at least it makes to me.
    Assuming he doesn't just coast through his rookie contract, so as to not be injured when his big payday comes.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Ultimately, barring something very drastic, I don't think anyone's mind is going to change in the next couple of months on Clowney.
    I think that's an interesting statement.

    Certainly, there are things that could emerge than nobody could ignore (i.e. health issue, failed drug test, arrest).

    But, from a performance standpoint, I agree that most people won't alter their position all that much.

    For me, if Clowney were to put up unprecedented numbers at the Combine, it might make me more comfortable with the possibility that the Rams might be too tempted to pass on him, it won't change my general belief that we'd be better off bolstering another position.

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I think that's an interesting statement.

    Certainly, there are things that could emerge than nobody could ignore (i.e. health issue, failed drug test, arrest).

    But, from a performance standpoint, I agree that most people won't alter their position all that much.

    For me, if Clowney were to put up unprecedented numbers at the Combine, it might make me more comfortable with the possibility that the Rams might be too tempted to pass on him, it won't change my general belief that we'd be better off bolstering another position.
    Here is what makes me feel comfortable taking him if he is what they say he is... Fisher and Les have proven they can find talent throughout the draft. Zac for example if he played 16 games he would could have been rookie of the year. Bailey is another guy that some are saying was a steal. Long gone are the days when our draft picks can't make a bad team. Fisher said he would protect Sam and they have done a much better job of that. Fisher wants to run the ball and for the most part... we have done that. The spread offense was a mistake and Fisher squashed that.

    Our offensive line coach is one of the best in the league and he has done a great job so far.
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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    For me, if Clowney were to put up unprecedented numbers at the Combine, it might make me more comfortable with the possibility that the Rams might be too tempted to pass on him, it won't change my general belief that we'd be better off bolstering another position.
    I am still in agreement with this. I'm just a fan, but that is my preference. Added to that is the possibility we can parlay the #2 into several more high value picks in rounds one and two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Here is what makes me feel comfortable taking him if he is what they say he is... Fisher and Les have proven they can find talent throughout the draft. Zac for example if he played 16 games he would could have been rookie of the year. Bailey is another guy that some are saying was a steal. Long gone are the days when our draft picks can't make a bad team. Fisher said he would protect Sam and they have done a much better job of that. Fisher wants to run the ball and for the most part... we have done that. The spread offense was a mistake and Fisher squashed that.

    Our offensive line coach is one of the best in the league and he has done a great job so far.
    Very good point about Fish/Snead finding value in the later rounds. You are correct about Boudreau as well. He seems to get the most out of the talent he has to work with. However, I think it is fair to say that some of that "talent" has been mediocre at best.

    That said, I guess if I've got to bet on securing a good OT, given our need, I would rather bet on a horse with a pedigree than just a dark horse. If Boudreau can coach up a dark horse, I'd love to see what he could do with a Greg Robinson or Jake Matthews. If there is any way we can find an eager trading partner for ou #2, I'm hoping we make the trade.

    As others have alluded to, if Jeff/Les view Clowney as too good a player to pass up, I will not be whining and sniveling about it. However, if we do take Clowney, I hope we can find at least two beastly linemen that can start. If Saffold leaves, (which is likely), we will have IMO two guard positions up for grabs. It has been a very long time since the Rams have had an offensive line that could push D-lines around consistently - let alone provide consistent protection for the qb. With a significant upgrades to our O-line, we have a good chance at being competitive next year. Without addressing this glaring need early, my hopes for success in 2014 are not optimistic.
    Last edited by MauiRam; -02-07-2014 at 02:18 PM.

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    this is why i'm annoyed with the hype

    it's building him up to be so great, that someone like robert quinn won't be nearly as good

    so it's expected for clowney to average 25-30 sacks a year?

    lol

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    I am still in agreement with this. I'm just a fan, but that is my preference. Added to that is the possibility we can parlay the #2 into several more high value picks in rounds one and two.



    Very good point about Fish/Snead finding value in the later rounds. You are correct about Boudreau as well. He seems to get the most out of the talent he has to work with. However, I think it is fair to say that some of that "talent" has been mediocre at best.

    That said, I guess if I've got to bet on securing a good OT, given our need, I would rather bet on a horse with a pedigree than just a dark horse. If Boudreau can coach up a dark horse, I'd love to see what he could do with a Greg Robinson or Jake Matthews. If there is any way we can find an eager trading partner for ou #2, I'm hoping we make the trade.

    As others have alluded to, if Jeff/Les view Clowney as too good a player to pass up, I will not be whining and sniveling about it. However, if we do take Clowney, I hope we can find at least two beastly linemen that can start. If Saffold leaves, (which is likely), we will have IMO two guard positions up for grabs. It has been a very long time since the Rams have had an offensive line that could push D-lines around consistently - let alone provide consistent protection for the qb. With a significant upgrades to our O-line, we have a good chance at being competitive next year. Without addressing this glaring need early, my hopes for success in 2014 are not optimistic.
    I agree with a lot of this but I'm not sure that any OT outside of the first round is a dark horse. We did get Saffold in round two and if he had better coaching and stayed healthy he would be fine at LT. I'm kind of banking on the fact that Boudreau can take players like Joe Barksdale who was a third round pick and turn him a into starters when another team could not. Same can be said about Chris Williams he was a first round bust on the bears they tried him everywhere and they cut him. That said we did go after Jake Long so it can go either way I suppose.... don't get me started on Jason Smith, maybe I'm still gun shy but that was a nightmare.

    Maui did you think the O line was not good enough this year? And if it was why do you think the Rams staff can't do it again without high draft pick to anchor it?
    Last edited by Rambos; -02-07-2014 at 03:23 PM.

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by citr92 View Post
    this is why i'm annoyed with the hype

    it's building him up to be so great, that someone like robert quinn won't be nearly as good

    so it's expected for clowney to average 25-30 sacks a year?

    lol
    If you are getting that from these articles I'm not sure how. They always seem to say good and the bad. What matters is what Les and Fisher think and I don't think we will know that until after the draft.

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    If you are getting that from these articles I'm not sure how. They always seem to say good and the bad. What matters is what Les and Fisher think and I don't think we will know that until after the draft.
    oh no no not from the article...well, kind of the title

    but when people talk about clowney and the positives, some can get a little ridiculous about how good he really is

    it's just that they keep bringing up, even in question form, about how good he is/can be

    shoulda made it clear, duh

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    Re: A Once-in-a-lifetime Prospect? Scouts Break Down Jadeveon Clowney

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Don't get me started on Jason Smith, maybe I'm still gun shy but that was a nightmare.
    First a confession: I thought Jason Smith was going to be an absolute stud, and was glad when we drafted him. Shows how much I know ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Maui did you think the O line was not good enough this year? And if it was why do you think the Rams staff can't do it again without high draft pick to anchor it?
    No it was not good enough - when you finish 7-9, and last in your division, IMO you are not good. Clearly the team’s poor record isn’t all the O-lines’ fault, but surely there is plenty of room for improvement within that group, not to mention better depth. With regard to how high and what round we select an OT or two, I would rather take we a shot on at least one guy with a *pedigree (I’d be okay with 2 guys in rounds 1 thru 3), than late round prospects. Will it happen? Who knows - I know the Rams wouldn’t and shouldn’t listen to the likes of me though.

    Although our line played well at times last year, I wouldn’t use the word dominant to describe the O-line. I think the O-line play can and will improve given an infusion of young talent. I personally would rather see the Rams select at least one blue chip guy like Bruce Matthews/Greg Robinson early, rather than waiting until late in the draft to address the position.

    The trouble with trying to predict who and when the Rams will select is obvious. We simply don’t know how the Rams board is stacked, and won’t until after the draft. We clearly need help in the secondary, and certainly could use another fast aggressive linebacker. I think we are all pretty much agreed on our areas of need, even though we don’t always concur on the order of those needs. I do have faith in Les/Fish when it comes to the draft. Whomever we end up with, I’ve way more confidence with our current group than I had with Shaw/Zygmunts’.

    *Pedigree …

    01/04/2014 - Texas A&M left tackle Jake Matthews won the Bobby Bowden Award on Friday, presented for high performance on the field, in class and in the community. Matthews, the son of former NFL lineman Bruce Matthews, is a two-time all-Southeastern Conference player who moved from right to left tackle for his senior season. Matthews is considered by many experts to be a top-five pick in this year's NFL draft.

    OVERVIEW
    While he does not possess former teammate and 2013 first rounder Luke Joeckel's light feet, Matthews is the stronger and more physical run blocker of the two and is perfectly suited to remain at this position in the NFL.

    Matthews signed with the Aggies with great fanfare as his father is Hall of Famer Bruce Matthews, who starred all along the offensive line for 19 seasons with the Houston Oilers and Tennessee Titans.

    Jake proved early on that he was worthy of the hype, solidifying the Aggies' offensive line once he entered the starting lineup in week six of the 2010 season (Missouri) as the team battled injuries up front. Despite starting just seven games as a true freshman he was recognized by the media as an honorable mention all-conference performer in 2011 and 2012, and most recently received First-Team AP All-American honors. Matthews could have joined Joeckel as a high first-round choice a year ago but elected to come back to College Station for his senior campaign. In making the switch to left tackle in 2013, his stock could end up even higher.

    ANALYSIS
    STRENGTHS: Matthews is quick off the snap and uses his long, strong arms and good mobility to control his opponents when pass blocking. While perhaps not an elite athlete, he plays with the technique and tenacity to make his father proud, controlling opponents with good initial quickness, excellent knee bend and balance and terrific upper-body strength. Matthews is a terrific run blocker. Though athletic enough to surprise defenders with an occasional chop block or slipping out to the second level to nail a linebacker, he's at his best simply driving defensive ends off the ball and creating lanes for A&M's running backs to slice through. Once he gets his hands on his opponent, he exhibits an ability to dictate the matchup. Strong lower-half drive and displays a good understanding of leverage when he can establish low position against thicker defenders.
    WEAKNESSES: Matthews can get himself in trouble when he stops moving his feet and his lack of elite foot speed and balance may limit just how high he can go on draft day. At times, he'll bend his arms and lock his knees when opposing a strong bull-rush and appears "light" occasionally in power-on-power situations.

    COMPARES TO: Joe Staley, OT, San Francisco ***** - Though Matthews won't blow anyone away with his athleticism, like Staley he's a sound technician with impressive toughness who exhibits no major weaknesses, and is tough to beat in both facets of the offense.

    --Rob Rang and Derek Stephens (2/5/14)
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