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  1. #31
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    From the looks of it, we're going to be a run-heavy team from now on. Pass-protection, while still a big deal, isn't AS big of a deal like before. You got to keep in mind that Barron was serviceable when filling in for Pace. I'm not saying he played at a hall-of-fame level, but the guy wasn't horrible.
    Pass protection is very very important. We are going to use Action Jackson a whole lot more. That does not mean that we are going to run a whole lot more. Look at Pat Shurmur's old offence the eagles. Look at his RB Westbrook who caught a lot of football. expect Jackson to be used the way Westbrook was. And expect Bulger to become a D-nabb where he will have plenty of RB dump-offs and WR/RB screens. So yea we need athletic OT not a Alex Barron. I dare you to go up to Alex Barron and ask him to count to the number 5. I'm sure he cannot do it. If he can then ask why he cannot remember while he is in his OL stance.

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    Once again, we're going to run the ball a lot and Barron's a better run than pass-blocker. You also have to figure that MOST of the rookie tackles will take awhile to adjust to pass-protecting in the NFL, so we might not have much of an upgrade over Barron anyway..at least to start off. This especially goes for Jason Smith.
    NO the reason we drafted him was because of his pass blocking. He is a way better Pass blocker than run blocker. Your right MOST rookies struggle to adjust in the NFL. But look at the 1st OT taken in the last 2 drafts. Jake Long and Joe Thomas both made the pro bowl there rookie season. Well any OT that can get less than 5 False starts per season we ill be a huge upgrade over Barron.

    Somtimes i just wonder do the refs love to call #70 out or does Barron just lack THAT much focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    I think most of you are forgetting the complete overhaul of the offensive line we could be looking at if we do in fact move Barron and Bell (The one player returning to the same position would be Incognito). We'd also be a hell of a lot more bigger and even skilled IMO. Barron with better blockers makes it a lot easier on him and less likely to screw up.
    Incognito just needs to learn to keep his mouthpiece in his mouth and stay away from reporters and he will be fine. Since i did not here you saying this as soon as we got Jason Brown what you said means getting rid of a 6-6 Hall-of-Fame tackle makes us bigger and more skilled.


    Listen moving Barron a few feet to the left on the OL does not mean he will quit having his mental mistakes. And he was average when replace Pace in 2007 at LT. So im not expecting much out of Barron.


  2. #32
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Are the Rams really considering drafting a converted TE?

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  3. #33
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnight View Post
    You will be surprised how well alex will do as a Full Time Left Tackle. you can't expect someone to just kick to the other side of an O-line with basically no notice. once he gets a full Off season and training camp in as a LT he will be fine. I believe so anyway.

    How many seasons has he been at RT? And none of those off-seasons have improved him. I think that if he doesn't start showing something at the start of next season, he should immediately be benched and forgotten. We've been waiting for this guy for way too long.




    And badmoforamfan, that just means that Jason Smith has great athleticism and speed.

  4. #34
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Pass protection is very very important. We are going to use Action Jackson a whole lot more. That does not mean that we are going to run a whole lot more. Look at Pat Shurmur's old offence the eagles. Look at his RB Westbrook who caught a lot of football. expect Jackson to be used the way Westbrook was. And expect Bulger to become a D-nabb where he will have plenty of RB dump-offs and WR/RB screens.

    That's what Reid and Mornhinweg did. Shurmur was the QB coach. Most QB coaches don't have much to say when it came to the offensive playbook last time I checked. Their job is to get the quarterbacks to execute the desgnated playbook correctly. That's about it. Now I'm sure he held some of the same philosophies as Reid...so some things THEY did will end up being implemented.

    However, Spags has stated what HE wants to do and from what I could gather...that involves plenty of down-hill running with the occasional dump-off and screen. I don't think he'd hire someone with a completely different philosophy to control the offense. Also, I'm pretty sure we don't have a Brian Westbrook starting for us at RB. Our guy is a lot more physical and can run between the tackles. Westbrook can't and we see what happens when they try to excessively...

    So yea we need athletic OT not a Alex Barron. I dare you to go up to Alex Barron and ask him to count to the number 5. I'm sure he cannot do it. If he can then ask why he cannot remember while he is in his OL stance.


    Alex Barron was tabbed as a freakishly-athletic tackle coming out, but a little raw if I remember correctly. Scouts figured the athleticsm would get him through 'til the skill-set came...and despite what you think, mental screw-ups can be fixed. I know he's been doing it for awhile, but eventually it'll come. That COULD happen once the revolving door of an OL coach stays stationary for awhile.

    NO the reason we drafted him was because of his pass blocking. He is a way better Pass blocker than run blocker. Your right MOST rookies struggle to adjust in the NFL. But look at the 1st OT taken in the last 2 drafts. Jake Long and Joe Thomas both made the pro bowl there rookie season. Well any OT that can get less than 5 False starts per season we ill be a huge upgrade over Barron.
    What we drafted him for and what he's actually done are two different things. He often overthinks(..not funny) on the line, which causes him to get beat. The one thing the scouts thought he needed to work on is the one thing he's been consistently decent with (that would be run-blocking).

    Since i did not here you saying this as soon as we got Jason Brown what you said means getting rid of a 6-6 Hall-of-Fame tackle makes us bigger and more skilled.
    The 'here' threw me off for a second. Anyway, Last season..Pace was nowhere near being the "6'6 Hall-of-Fame tackle" he used to be. You said Barron was average in '07...Well, Pace was average in '08..and injured in '07. Oh wait...I almost forgot about '06 too. It's not like there's going to be a huge drop-off...

    Listen moving Barron a few feet to the left on the OL does not mean he will quit having his mental mistakes.
    Mental mistakes are mental mistakes. You can fix mental mistakes if you really want to, but you can't fix natural skill. Barron has the latter, but he just needs to put it together mentally. This season...he kind of has to if he ever wants to get PAID starting caliber money in the NFL again. Money seems to inspire the uninspired.
    Last edited by IzzyHigh1212; -03-10-2009 at 11:41 PM.

  5. #35
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    Re: OT PACE Released ! Now who do we Draft?

    I don't want Rams to resign him that's why I say draft the OT in round one. Next year the Rams might have to draft another OT.
    I wouldn't waste the m$ney on Barron after next season.

  6. #36
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    I apologize for the size of this post, but there were simply too many things I felt inclined to respond to in this thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    Now that Pace has been released do we stop talking about taking anyone else other than Eugene Monroe or Jason Smith?
    Absolutely not. We've known that Pace's release has been a possibility for weeks. We've discussed the other options the Rams could pursue in addressing the position. Even as someone who has been leaning OT with our first pick, I would strongly state that there shouldn't be an end to consideration of other prospects. I certainly hope the Rams' war room gets tunnel vision like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bar-bq View Post
    In a word, no.

    I don't think it does at all. It all depends on how comfortable we'd be with a player like Beatty at the back of the first tier of OT's, or Kropog toward the beginning of the second tier.
    IMO, the first tier of tackles consist of Monroe, the Smiths, and Oher. I think Beatty is at the top of the second tier. Kropog is probably middle-end of the second. But I agree with you, the Rams may be inclined to go another direction if they feel they can get a talented tackle in the second or third round. I have my doubts, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    So down the road what if we find out Curry's "best position" is SLB we will have to move him back to SLB so a #2 pick is a SLB not an MLB.
    I guess then we'd have a very talented SLB...? I don't really see why this is a huge concern, unless he busts out, but I don't envision that happening. If he ends up excelling as a SAM linebacker instead of in the middle, then we have a great SAM linebacker. It's not as if we don't have a need there as well. The Rams could play Witherspoon on the weak side, Curry on the strong side, and then try to find a two-down middle linebacker who comes off the field in passing situations (maybe Chris Draft in the short term).

    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    Bell versatile backup at all positions
    Really disagree here. Not because Bell can't be a versatile back-up, but simply because we didn't sign him to a $36 million contract to bench him after a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Not True still some very good talent at the position....
    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    Huge dip? Not really. Sure, there's a potential difference..but it's not huge.
    I dunno. I don't think I'd classify it as a huge dip either, but I don't think this tackle class is as deep as lot of others do. If anything I think it's pretty strong at the top, which is ironic since many Rams fans claim there isn't a tackle worth taking with the second overall pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnight View Post
    So you are assuming that The Patriots would be on Board because they supposedly, "Don't like to Pay First Round money" When In fact the Patriots just Last year made a trade with the ***** to get there 9th OVERALL pick and selected Jero'd Mayo.
    Technically I believe they made that trade the year before when the ***** wanted to trade up for Joe Staley. Point being, they didn't know for certain that they were trading for a top ten pick, since the ***** finished 7-9 the season prior to that draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    Im not saying Curry will be bad at the pro level im just saying that Jason SMith is a bigger need and a lower risk.
    I really disagree. I think Jason Smith is definitely more of a risk than Curry. I'm not sure how you'd arrive at that one, to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    Once again, we're going to run the ball a lot and Barron's a better run than pass-blocker. You also have to figure that MOST of the rookie tackles will take awhile to adjust to pass-protecting in the NFL, so we might not have much of an upgrade over Barron anyway..at least to start off.
    Two things. One, I would disagree that Barron is a better run blocker than a pass blocker. I've been critical of the number of sacks he's allowed, but IMO his strength lies more in pass protection than run blocking. Two, while there will be a learning curve for rookie offensive tackles translating to the NFL, the pure physical talent, skill, and experience from a top tackle prospect is going to help minimize that as much as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    Oh..and one more thing...There's no Jake Long or Joe Thomas in this draft.
    When did Jake Long become the be-all-and-end-all for other tackles to compare to? He was never viewed as an elite LT prospect last year; I really don't understand why his name is always brought up.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnight View Post
    I believe that andre smith regardless of skipping the combine is the best O-lineman in this draft and he compares to joe thomas and jake long very well.
    I'd really be interested in hearing how Andre Smith compares very well to Joe Thomas.

  7. #37
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    I dunno. I don't think I'd classify it as a huge dip either, but I don't think this tackle class is as deep as lot of others do. If anything I think it's pretty strong at the top, which is ironic since many Rams fans claim there isn't a tackle worth taking with the second overall pick.
    That's basically what I said...

    Two things. One, I would disagree that Barron is a better run blocker than a pass blocker. I've been critical of the number of sacks he's allowed, but IMO his strength lies more in pass protection than run blocking. Two, while there will be a learning curve for rookie offensive tackles translating to the NFL, the pure physical talent, skill, and experience from a top tackle prospect is going to help minimize that as much as possible.
    I don't really know. To me, it seems as if he gets too flustered trying to protect the passer and often gets beat VERY badly as a result. That could be what influences me to think that. To me, he looks decent blocking for the run..doesn't do anything bad enough to REALLY stand out in that department. Could be because 50% of the plays were already over before the ball was even hiked, so..he didn't get the chance to really screw-it up.



    When did Jake Long become the be-all-and-end-all for other tackles to compare to? He was never viewed as an elite LT prospect last year; I really don't understand why his name is always brought up.
    Obviously Miami/Parcells thought he was to take him first overall, right?

  8. #38
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    That's basically what I said...
    Fair enough. It just seemed to me as if there was this impression, intentional or unintentional, that there isn't that much difference between the guys at the top of the first round and the guys who will probably be there at the top of the second and third round. I thought it was something worth elaborating on.

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    Obviously Miami/Parcells thought he was to take him first overall, right?
    Not necessarily. Personally I think Miami's pick was as much about selecting a guy who they were confident would be a good player, a guy who wouldn't bust out, and who had great character and attitude. I don't think Long being selected first overall necessarily means he ranks right up there in terms of being an elite left tackle prospect.

  9. #39
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    I think something to consider also is the lifespan of players at each position. If Monroe/Smith end up being elite blockers history dictates we could hopefully see 10 or 11 good years. I base this assumption off of the last elite guys being Ogden or Pace.
    If Curry comes in and is an elite LB/MLB we could hope to see...who knows?! Junior Seau was still doing it 17 and 18 years in the NFL, Lewis is working on his extension after 14 seasons.
    Nothing, of course, is guaranteed. Just some food for thought.

  10. #40
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyHigh1212 View Post
    Oh..and one more thing...There's no Jake Long or Joe Thomas in this draft.
    But to be fair, when Long and Thomas were drafted, they weren't pro bowlers either. They were, just like Smith and Monroe this year, considered to be top-tier prospects that bore a solid risk-reward ratio. They made the most of their rookie year and were rewarded for it. If one of this year's top prospects becomes Ram, hopefully they do the same.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  11. #41
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Don't we have a defensive head coach?

    Since he is a defensive head coach i think we should see if he can groom Vabora and Culberson to play the 2 LB spots. Also history says rookie defensive head coaches go offence early. Just look at last year: Mike Smith-Matt Ryan, Tony saprano- Jake Long, John Harbaugh-Joe Flacco. I said it before we have way tooo much invested in Action Jackson and Marc Bulger to let the get injured so we should build an OL.

    We could just trade up to get Lauriniatis. Then Lauriniatis and Vabora can battle for the starting job.

    With the way we are going to start Jacob Bell at RT just makes it obvious we are going to go OT with the 2nd pick.

    IMO Beatty will be gone in the 1st (Steelers) so the 3 possibilities (all reaches) are Phil Loadholt, Jamon Merideth, Troy Korpog.

    Last time i checked Loadholt has a problem with false starts and we dont need both OTs to commit 5+ False starts per season.

    Jamon Merideth is okay but he is not aggresive, physical, big, or explosive which will hurt him because that is what Billy Devaney is looking for. Also i doubt his ability to open holes for Action Jackson and that can be a problem because Jackson is not a small back that can sqeeze though.

    Troy Korpog is more of a 3rd rounder. And he is not agressive at all and needs to get stronger.

    So i just feel like we should get the best OT in the Draft.

  12. #42
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    I think that the Rams go OT with their first pick. Though Curry is still in the mix, OT seems to be the BIGGER priority at the moment.
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  13. #43
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    I got a few of questions for you guys that still think Aaron Curry is still in the mix. IMO the Rams wont sound him off cuz then other teams can plan better knowing Curry is not going to be the #2 pick.

    Are you comfortable with Jacob Bell playing RT?

    If Beatty is gone who are you willing to REACH for?

    If we get a big NT (Brace) then do we need a really good MLB?

  14. #44
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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    If we get a big NT (Brace) then do we need a really good MLB?
    completely agree...in the draft we should take either a good MLB (curry in 1st or lauranitis in 2nd) or a good DT (raji in 1st or hood/brace in 2nd) and fill other holes in the draft

    also would ziggy hood play more of a under tackle or nose tackle in the NFL?

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    Re: Pace gone. Aaron Curry talks gone too?

    Quote Originally Posted by iStillBelieve View Post
    completely agree...in the draft we should take either a good MLB (curry in 1st or lauranitis in 2nd) or a good DT (raji in 1st or hood/brace in 2nd) and fill other holes in the draft

    also would ziggy hood play more of a under tackle or nose tackle in the NFL?
    Ziggy would be a Justin Tuck for the Rams in spags system where he would sub in as DT and DE. In the NFL he will play UT.

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