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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I've not read any "experts" matching Star and the Rams up. Maybe you could link to some of those comments.

    As for the Giants, they are irrelevant to the discussion. Big difference between spending multiple first round picks on pass rushers and multiple first round picks on defensive tackles. A better example would be the Lions, but as they're still waiting on Nick Fairley to show up, they don't really help the argument IMO.

    Furthermore, I think you're underselling Brockers and Langford quite a bit. We're five games into the season; we've barely seen Brockers and we didn't give Langford $12 million in guarantees to make him a situational guy after one season, even if you think our return hasn't been as great as we've expected.

    Look, the guy is an absolute stud. But unless you're in a position where Star is overwhelmingly the best player on the board (certainly possible) and you're receiving no trade offers (unlikely, given this regime's first draft), then I don't think projecting him to the Rams makes much sense at this point in the process due to the existing personnel.

    Maybe that changes by season's end if the defense falters, Langford becomes an actual liability, or Brockers underwhelms. But without a glaring hole there and considering the play of the defensive unit as a whole, it's a tough projection to make, IMO.
    That depends, do I get rep points for posting all of the articles(lol)? I seem to have almost 20 over the years thanks to your peer(lol).

    Now to your point, the Giants drafted additional Defensive linemen, which at the time was a strength of the team and it brought them success, the Lions on the other hand have yet to see the same results, but that is why you pay a team of scouts to do their job (and let's keep in mind that Fairley was thought by many to have character issues which would plague him as he entered the league); so his current NFL status should not surprise us at all.

    Now contrary to your position, if Star grades as high as he currently does, then you have to take a look at a guy that looks to be the next Ngata, who is a complete game changer (even if you have two DT's in place currently). Everyone called Detroit crazy when they drafted yet another WR in the first round, but now that Megatron has become arguably the best WR in the game, everyone has amnesia. Nevertheless, adding both Star & Reid, potentially you have a stellar defense. Again, players like Ngata & Reed do not come around often, so if you have a chance to grab them, you do so if they fit your system & grade high on our talent scale.
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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Say it to the two teams in the SB last year... Giants were dead last in rushing yards, and Patriots in 2nd last. So whatever point your trying to make here, doesn't really make sense.
    To elaborate on your point more, having a good running game is a nice yet it doesn't predict success. Let's look at arguably the 10 best teams football has seen in the modern era.

    1962 Packers Passing Ranking 1st, Running Ranking 1st
    1966 Packers Passing 1st, Running 1st
    1972 Dolphins Passing 1st, Rushing 2nd
    1976 Raiders Passing 1st, Rushing 9th
    1977 Cowboys Passing 1st, Rushing 2nd
    1978 Steelers Passing 1st, Rushing Dead last
    1984 ***** Passing 1st, Rushing 2nd
    1985 Bears Passing 1st, Rushing 4th
    1989 ***** Passing 1st, Rushing 5th
    1991 Redskins Passing 1st, Rushing 9th

    These rankings are based on yards per pass and yards per rush. These averages show the effectiveness of each team's offense. These rankings show that you need a good passing game while having a good rushing attack is not essential.

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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by RamBamThankYouMam View Post
    To elaborate on your point more, having a good running game is a nice yet it doesn't predict success. Let's look at arguably the 10 best teams football has seen in the modern era.

    1962 Packers Passing Ranking 1st, Running Ranking 1st
    1966 Packers Passing 1st, Running 1st
    1972 Dolphins Passing 1st, Rushing 2nd
    1976 Raiders Passing 1st, Rushing 9th
    1977 Cowboys Passing 1st, Rushing 2nd
    1978 Steelers Passing 1st, Rushing Dead last
    1984 ***** Passing 1st, Rushing 2nd
    1985 Bears Passing 1st, Rushing 4th
    1989 ***** Passing 1st, Rushing 5th
    1991 Redskins Passing 1st, Rushing 9th

    These rankings are based on yards per pass and yards per rush. These averages show the effectiveness of each team's offense. These rankings show that you need a good passing game while having a good rushing attack is not essential.
    100% agreed. I would feel very comfortable with Daryl Richardson starting and being backed up by Isaiah Pead and Terrance Ganaway. I'd prefer to have Richardson start next year with SJ as the 3rd down and short yardage back. We keep our soul, heart, leader, and he can still be extremely effective at the right cost.


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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofGod View Post
    That depends, do I get rep points for posting all of the articles(lol)? I seem to have almost 20 over the years thanks to your peer(lol).

    Now to your point, the Giants drafted additional Defensive linemen, which at the time was a strength of the team and it brought them success, the Lions on the other hand have yet to see the same results, but that is why you pay a team of scouts to do their job (and let's keep in mind that Fairley was thought by many to have character issues which would plague him as he entered the league); so his current NFL status should not surprise us at all.

    Now contrary to your position, if Star grades as high as he currently does, then you have to take a look at a guy that looks to be the next Ngata, who is a complete game changer (even if you have two DT's in place currently). Everyone called Detroit crazy when they drafted yet another WR in the first round, but now that Megatron has become arguably the best WR in the game, everyone has amnesia. Nevertheless, adding both Star & Reid, potentially you have a stellar defense. Again, players like Ngata & Reed do not come around often, so if you have a chance to grab them, you do so if they fit your system & grade high on our talent scale.
    Since you keep comparing him to the next Ngata, I think it's important to keep in mind that Haloti wasn't a Top Ten pick in his 2006 class. Just something to consider, because I think it's easy to get caught up in the "This guys is the next ___________" and then throw value out the window.

    Yes, I agree that Lotulelei is a great prospect. But is he so good that he's worth bypassing similarly graded prospects who are at bigger positions of need? Again, at this point, I don't think so. It took me all of five minutes to find two rankings (Scouts Inc, CBS Sports) that (1) don't have Lotulelei as a Top Five prospect on their Big Board, and (2) have offensive lineman that would fill a position of need for this team ranked very closely to him. If the Rams have similar grades on Lotulelei and an offensive lineman when their pick rolls around, given the status of the defense and the larger needs on offense, I think a stronger case exists for the offensive lineman.

    Maybe as the college football season grinds on and we get into draft season, that changes. Maybe by the end of the year, Lotulelei has separated himself ala Suh and just looks like a guy you can't pass on under nearly any circumstances. Maybe the DT position doesn't look as set as I think it is. But having just spent a first round pick on Brockers, and having just signed Langford to a four-year deal averaging $6 million per, I just don't see much immediate need there. And neither do you, based on your rankings.

    As for what the Giants did, again, it's apples to oranges because they weren't drafting defensive tackles. So again, their example in this discussion is rather irrelevant.

    Finally, I'm not sure what articles you're referring to, it sounds like we're talking about two different things here. What I was asking about were recent articles by people considered to be "draft experts" who are projecting Lotulelei to the Rams. If you have those, by all means, send them my way.
    Last edited by Nick; -10-06-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Maybe by the end of the year, Lotulelei has separated himself ala Suh and just looks like a guy you can't pass on under nearly any circumstances. Maybe the DT position doesn't look as set as I think it is. But having just spent a first round pick on Brockers, and having just signed Langford to a four-year deal averaging $6 million per, I just don't see much immediate need there.
    We are not done building the front just yet. look at the Hawks depth and talent.



    "They're really fast up front," Rams head coach Jeff Fisher said about Seattle's defensive front. "They use combinations of defensive linemen in there and they do different things. They've got guys collapsing the pocket and guys chasing down. They do a good job. They've done a nice job with them."

    Seattle can so many different combination because they have so many defensive linemen, most of whom are capable of being starters. Take a look at the snap counts from last week's game against Green Bay.

    Red Bryant, LDE: 54
    Alan Branch, LDT: 42
    Brandon Mebane, RDT: 45
    Chris Clemons, DRE: 60

    Bruce Irvin, DE: 35
    Greg Suggs, DT: 12
    Jason Jones, DT: 26
    Clinton McDonald, DT: 26

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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Since you keep comparing him to the next Ngata, I think it's important to keep in mind that Haloti wasn't a Top Ten pick in his 2006 class. Just something to consider, because I think it's easy to get caught up in the "This guys is the next ___________" and then throw value out the window.

    Yes, I agree that Lotulelei is a great prospect. But is he so good that he's worth bypassing similarly graded prospects who are at bigger positions of need? Again, at this point, I don't think so. It took me all of five minutes to find two rankings (Scouts Inc, CBS Sports) that (1) don't have Lotulelei as a Top Five prospect on their Big Board, and (2) have offensive lineman that would fill a position of need for this team ranked very closely to him. If the Rams have similar grades on Lotulelei and an offensive lineman when their pick rolls around, given the status of the defense and the larger needs on offense, I think a stronger case exists for the offensive lineman.

    Maybe as the college football season grinds on and we get into draft season, that changes. Maybe by the end of the year, Lotulelei has separated himself ala Suh and just looks like a guy you can't pass on under nearly any circumstances. Maybe the DT position doesn't look as set as I think it is. But having just spent a first round pick on Brockers, and having just signed Langford to a four-year deal averaging $6 million per, I just don't see much immediate need there. And neither do you, based on your rankings.

    As for what the Giants did, again, it's apples to oranges because they weren't drafting defensive tackles. So again, their example in this discussion is rather irrelevant.

    Finally, I'm not sure what articles you're referring to, it sounds like we're talking about two different things here. What I was asking about were recent articles by people considered to be "draft experts" who are projecting Lotulelei to the Rams. If you have those, by all means, send them my way.
    My friend I fully understand where Mr. Ngata was drafted, but that is not the issue at hand here, and lets keep in mind that I did not select him as my "picks" for the draft (although I would not be adverse to having him on the team if his status holds). As I've stated before, it all comes down to value.

    *Keep in mind that the Giants drafted DE's that are versatile enough to play DT (which we see from them on a weekly basis). Versatility is a key asset in today's NFL.

    If you'd like I can re-post my picks if you'd like
    Nevertheless, I enjoy this conversation & since the "rankings" will change several times between now & April its needless to even focus on what anyone says, but this is amusing dialog.

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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Say it to the two teams in the SB last year... Giants were dead last in rushing yards, and Patriots in 2nd last. So whatever point your trying to make here, doesn't really make sense.
    It actually does make sense...To make it to the superbowl u gotta make the playoffs; and since we play 6 division games a year its important to win them and take a look at the secondaries in our division they are pretty good we are going to have pound the ball...Also look at the way our defense is coming together we have to work on running the ball more effectively and taking control of the game clock every game

    I see where your coming from in bringing the super bowl participants up but right now we need to build on what we have and that is a defense that plays hard so we need to win the time of possession every game... and 1 off-season is not going to give the ariel assault those two teams can produce

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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Since you keep comparing him to the next Ngata, I think it's important to keep in mind that Haloti wasn't a Top Ten pick in his 2006 class. Just something to consider, because I think it's easy to get caught up in the "This guys is the next ___________" and then throw value out the window.

    Yes, I agree that Lotulelei is a great prospect. But is he so good that he's worth bypassing similarly graded prospects who are at bigger positions of need? Again, at this point, I don't think so. It took me all of five minutes to find two rankings (Scouts Inc, CBS Sports) that (1) don't have Lotulelei as a Top Five prospect on their Big Board, and (2) have offensive lineman that would fill a position of need for this team ranked very closely to him. If the Rams have similar grades on Lotulelei and an offensive lineman when their pick rolls around, given the status of the defense and the larger needs on offense, I think a stronger case exists for the offensive lineman.

    Maybe as the college football season grinds on and we get into draft season, that changes. Maybe by the end of the year, Lotulelei has separated himself ala Suh and just looks like a guy you can't pass on under nearly any circumstances. Maybe the DT position doesn't look as set as I think it is. But having just spent a first round pick on Brockers, and having just signed Langford to a four-year deal averaging $6 million per, I just don't see much immediate need there. And neither do you, based on your rankings.

    As for what the Giants did, again, it's apples to oranges because they weren't drafting defensive tackles. So again, their example in this discussion is rather irrelevant.

    Finally, I'm not sure what articles you're referring to, it sounds like we're talking about two different things here. What I was asking about were recent articles by people considered to be "draft experts" who are projecting Lotulelei to the Rams. If you have those, by all means, send them my way.
    Nick, man. How do you feel about Geno Smith? I know you like WVU and their goin HAM! Would you take him this next draft if we had the ability to (say we had the #1 pick or he slid to whatever pick we have)?

    The kid is frickin special. Im lovin it.


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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    We are not done building the front just yet. look at the Hawks depth and talent.
    How many consecutive first round picks did they spend on the same DL positions to achieve that?


    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Nick, man. How do you feel about Geno Smith? I know you like WVU and their goin HAM! Would you take him this next draft if we had the ability to (say we had the #1 pick or he slid to whatever pick we have)?

    The kid is frickin special. Im lovin it.
    The Rams don't have a need at the position, so it's not entirely relevant for them to consider. But if I were a team picking high in this year's class with a need at the position, I'd take him over Barkley as the top QB.

    My only real concern with him is consistency feeling pressure and the back side rush. That got him in trouble a bit tonight. But his accuracy is deadly, he has the ability to run but always prefers to find a target downfield before taking off, and he has the requisite size and arm strength. Certainly poised beyond belief. I understand the level of competition isn't the best in this example, but refer back to the comeback he led against Marshall two seasons ago.

    Barkley makes me nervous. I don't think he's looked as impressive this season, and the recent history of USC quarterbacks underwhelming at the next level would concern me as well. USC hasn't produced a legitimate NFL quarterback since Carson Palmer came out in 2003. Leinart, Booty, and Sanchez are all disappointments IMO. Cassel, I barely even count, but he's certainly not good enough to keep KC fans from talking about upgrading every offseason. To me, I think Barkley's pro career is closer to Sanchez than to Palmer, and I thought the world of Palmer as a prospect.
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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    How many consecutive first round picks did they spend on the same DL positions to achieve that?
    Not really a factor for me. We have two additional first round picks that they did not have. The way I see it, the defense is closer to being an elite unit then our offense. By adding two more young elite players at Safety and DT our defense will be well on it's way to becoming a force.

    I added Greg Jennings. Greg Jennings and Amendola is more then enough for Sam. More then he has every had in the past. Add Givens and Quick in their second year, this give time to see what they will become and if we need to add another rookie receiver to wait on.

    With the second, third and fourth round picks OT,OT and Guard should be enough to fix this line. That gives us two young guards and three young tackles to develop.

    Jo-Lonn Dunbar is a big surprise this year... he is playing very well, would lock him up. Behind a great front four JL and JLD can hold it down until we get another LB to join the party.
    Last edited by Rambos; -10-07-2012 at 07:08 PM.
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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    The GM job is never done. So what would you do with our first two picks in the draft. What ONE free agent would you bring in next year. Lets also assume we have locked up Amendola.

    Not knowing where we are going to pick the board is open just pick two players you would like to add.

    Free agent
    Greg Jennings WR from Packers

    Draft
    Star Lotulelei DT Utah
    Eric Reid FS LSU
    I love this minus signing Greg. He continues to struggle with health issues & is 29 years old. Not what I'm looking for in a #1 WR at this stage of the game. Also we should use at least one pick on OLB.
    Last edited by ManofGod; -10-07-2012 at 06:14 PM.

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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    I feel like the "RB by committe" will just come back to haunt us...This team is building well defensively but fishers teams in the past have shined when he has good contributions in the run game...even shotty last year the Jets running attack was awful which drove him out of town...

    THe division we play in is a huge factor as well...good defenses that can cover and get to the QB we cannot have a weak RB unit whatsoever
    how do you know we'll be weak? Richardson has looked very good.

    Also Lattimore is not a Trent Richardson type prospect. He's not a grade A running back talent imo. I just don't see the need to pick a guy 10-15 picks higher than where people project him when he's many don't think he's an elite talent.

    I think we should take a back but like has been proven time and time again you can get great running backs in rounds 2-5. We have more pressing needs than running back even if Stephen leaves.

    Even if by some chance we fill our left tackle or wide receiver hole in free agency I'd prefer to go after a top safety(Reid) or outside linebacker. I also wouldn't have a problem with us going after a run stuffing DE or a TE.
    Last edited by mcpeepants232003; -10-07-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by mcpeepants232003 View Post
    how do you know we'll be weak? Richardson has looked very good.

    Also Lattimore is not a Trent Richardson type prospect. He's not a grade A running back talent imo. I just don't see the need to pick a guy 10-15 picks higher than where people project him when he's many don't think he's an elite talent.

    I think we should take a back but like has been proven time and time again you can get great running backs in rounds 2-5. We have more pressing needs than running back even if Stephen leaves.

    Even if by some chance we fill our left tackle or wide receiver hole in free agency I'd prefer to go after a top safety(Reid) or outside linebacker. I also wouldn't have a problem with us going after a run stuffing DE or a TE.
    I'd be against us going after a run stuffing DE...Quinn and Long are our starters and we are not going to make a Quinn a 3rd down rusher only he has too much talent.

    I completely agree with u about reid I'd love to take a safety...If you go back to my first post i was choosing 3 people no else chose im just trying to get names out there because I hate seeing the same exact people time and time again

    Listen Daryl Richardson has been a pleasant surprise he hits the hole and burst threw it I feel like we need to use him and Jax together better...and thats where lattimore comes in he is a similar back to jax as he is a power back with extremely great character and is pretty good in the pass game

    Since we have not seen much from pead he really has not had in impact on what i feel like we should draft but if lattimore can keep pounding the rock holes will open up and we can change the pace with richardson...I just dont want to be in a position where teams gamepan vs. richardson and plug up every hole and rich cannot barrel though and make his own holes like jax and lattimore can

    It has been proven time and time again that 2nd round backs succeed in the nfl so i just dont want to be in a position in the 2nd where there is a run at RBs and lattimore is off the board a couple picks before us.

    And unless its manti te'o i say no to a LB too

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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    I don't see much point in going with a DL in Round 1. We have a very good and young group there. If we need depth, that can come in the later rounds.

    Right now, I see the following areas of need (in no particular order):

    WR - The Rams still could use a "difference maker" at the position. With two first round picks, I think there is a very substantial likelihood that the Rams will take a WR in Round 1.

    OT - If the Rams are in the position to take a franchise LT, it would be hard to pass up. That said, if Saffold can come back and play well, and Hunter and/or Richardson continue to surprise, I don't know that this will be a first round priority.

    TE - I keep hoping that Kendricks will get to the next level, but he's definitely not there yet. Not a first round need, but an upgrade could be necessary.

    OG - I think the Rams need an upgrade, but unless its a "Blue Chip" player, interior lineman generally are available on Day 2 of the draft.

    RB - If SJax leaves, I have little doubt that the Rams will take a RB. The question is... how early?

    OLB - While I like what I see from Dunbar, I don't think there is any question that an upgrade is needed. I've also made it no secret that Manti Te'o is pretty much my favorite draft prospect for 2013. That kid has "it."

    S - Eric Reid in a Rams uniform would be a huge upgrade over Stewart/Dahl, and would make our already top notch DB corps even more productive.

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    Re: Pick three players in 2013

    Provided that we can land a starting WR (Wallace or Bowe) and OT in free agency which is a serious possibility, I would love to draft both Te'o & Reid in the first round before addressing G in round 2. That my friends would be a wonderful off-season.
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