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Thread: Potential Trade down Mock

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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    No matter what you do, though, you're putting someone on the bench.

    If Donald stays in, then Langford sits.

    If Barr stays in, then either a DE (Long?) sits, or a LB (JL?, Ogletree?) sits.

    Don't get me wrong... having a strong rotation of front 7 players is a great thing. My point is simply that, before you build up a rotation that is already pretty strong, you need to fill the key holes (OL, S).

    As a wise men once said, "If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT!!!"
    I may be stating the obvious, but I think this situation ultimately boils down to a combination of two things...

    1. Do they value a "luxury" prospect that much more than a "need" prospect that they decide they can't pass him up.

    2. Do they see viable need prospects further down their draft board that they feel will compensate if they go with a luxury pick.

    Hypothetical example: The Rams fall in love with Barr's potential but see Matthews as a solid fit at a position of need. Do they see an OT down the line, maybe Lewan, who they'd be happy to end up with after selecting Barr, rather than Matthews and any other player?

    A lot of variables in play, but I personally believe this could make the decision between a luxury and a need pick.


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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    No matter what you do, though, you're putting someone on the bench.

    If Donald stays in, then Langford sits.

    If Barr stays in, then either a DE (Long?) sits, or a LB (JL?, Ogletree?) sits.

    Don't get me wrong... having a strong rotation of front 7 players is a great thing. My point is simply that, before you build up a rotation that is already pretty strong, you need to fill the key holes (OL, S).

    As a wise men once said, "If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT!!!"
    I'm confused, you've consistently stated on here how you'd be in favor of drafting a CB with one of our 1st round picks (either Dennard or Gilbert), but if that were to happen wouldn't we end up benching one of our two young promising CB's in Janoris Jenkins or Trumaine Johnson? Chances are the only time all three would see the field at the same time would be on 3rd downs.

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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    If the Browns were stupid enough to make this trade I'd definitely do it. I doubt they'd throw in the 36th pick too, but maybe if we gave them a 5th or 6th round pick instead of the 7th it might work. I do love your draft though (especially the late round picks of McGill, Redd, and Miller), but chances are pretty slim that Gabe Jackson would last till the 3rd. Also, after watching video of Anthony Barr I'm not completely sold on him and think that he can easily become a bust. If I were drafting in those same exact spots I'd go with something like this:

    1a - Jake Matthews (or Greg Robinson if he burns up the Combine)

    1b - Justin Gilbert or Dennard

    1c - Calvin Pryor

    2a - Aaron Donald (I absolutely love this guy)

    2b - Gabe Jackson or Cyril Richardson

    3 - Jimmy Garoppolo

    4 - Keith McGill (you can never have enough good corners)

    5 - L'Damian Washington (tall WR with good speed)

    7 - Devon Kennard (loved him at USC and he would go much higher if it weren't for injuries)

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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    I think like you said Robinson would have to really impress the Rams. Fisher loves what he knows, and he knows the Matthews family. I will be shocked if we don't somehow get him, even if we trade down.

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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    If the Browns were stupid enough to make this trade I'd definitely do it. I doubt they'd throw in the 36th pick too, but maybe if we gave them a 5th or 6th round pick instead of the 7th it might work. I do love your draft though (especially the late round picks of McGill, Redd, and Miller), but chances are pretty slim that Gabe Jackson would last till the 3rd. Also, after watching video of Anthony Barr I'm not completely sold on him and think that he can easily become a bust. If I were drafting in those same exact spots I'd go with something like this:

    1a - Jake Matthews (or Greg Robinson if he burns up the Combine)

    1b - Justin Gilbert or Dennard

    1c - Calvin Pryor

    2a - Aaron Donald (I absolutely love this guy)

    2b - Gabe Jackson or Cyril Richardson

    3 - Jimmy Garoppolo

    4 - Keith McGill (you can never have enough good corners)

    5 - L'Damian Washington (tall WR with good speed)

    7 - Devon Kennard (loved him at USC and he would go much higher if it weren't for injuries)
    i'd love devon kennard, that'd be a steal in the 7th

    and there's a chance morgan breslin will go undrafted cause of his injuries imo

    i'd love either one since more than likely they'd only get one
    Last edited by citr92; -01-30-2014 at 03:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post

    I'm confused, you've consistently stated on here how you'd be in favor of drafting a CB with one of our 1st round picks (either Dennard or Gilbert), but if that were to happen wouldn't we end up benching one of our two young promising CB's in Janoris Jenkins or Trumaine Johnson? Chances are the only time all three would see the field at the same time would be on 3rd downs.
    Guess you don't watch much football.

    Teams have 3 CBs on the field more often than that. Plus, our depth at the CB spot (particularly if Finnegan does not return) is a major issue.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -01-30-2014 at 05:37 PM.
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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Aaron Donald = 6', 285 lb pass rushing DT.
    Pass rushing DTs are one of the most difficult type of player evaluate. Undersized DTs aren't something you draft in the first round.

  8. #23
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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Nice mock, although I don't see us passing on OT's like Robinson, Matthews or even Lewan in the 1st round to take a less than top ranked OT. Further, I don't see the Browns making a trade up from 4 to 2. I know they claim to want Manziel, but I don't think he fits as well in Cleveland as I think he might in Minnesota, where Norv Turner is the new OC. That is why I'm thinking Minny is more likely to make a deal with us.

    With Williams as the new DC I agree OLB is more important than it was a few days ago. But Barr is not the best for our scheme. He's more suited for a 3-4. I see us going for a Michael Sam in round 2. He is from the SEC which puts him in Fisher's and Snead's favored conference and he plays the side of Chris Long so he won't compete with Quinn for sacks and may actually help Chris get more sacks due to blocking assignments.


    Go Rams!

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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    No matter what you do, though, you're putting someone on the bench.

    If Donald stays in, then Langford sits.

    If Barr stays in, then either a DE (Long?) sits, or a LB (JL?, Ogletree?) sits.

    Don't get me wrong... having a strong rotation of front 7 players is a great thing. My point is simply that, before you build up a rotation that is already pretty strong, you need to fill the key holes (OL, S).

    As a wise men once said, "If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT!!!"
    Robert Quinn started one game his rookie year. He was subbing in and out with James Hall throughout the season. I'm glad the Rams weren't worried about putting him on the bench when they decided to draft him.

    Three years later he's an All-Pro and potential DPOY. When you get narrow sighted and only focus on what positions can help you next season, that's when you get into trouble.
    Last edited by Bald_81; -01-30-2014 at 06:19 PM.
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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post
    Three years later he's an All-Pro and potential DPOY. When you get narrow sighted and only focus on what positions can help you next season, that's when you get into trouble.
    The draft isn't how you fill holes, it's how you build a franchise. When you take lesser players to fill holes, what you end up with in 3-5 years is a team of lesser talent that needs to be replaced again.

    You fill holes with stop gap free agents until your draft picks have time to develop.

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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Love your idea but hate your draft... No way Barr at #4...

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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Guess you don't watch much football.

    Teams have 3 CBs on the field more often than that. Plus, our depth at the CB spot (particularly if Finnegan does not return) is a major issue.
    Teams in the same division as the Broncos or Saints might play the majority of their defensive snaps in the nickel, but not teams in the NFC West. The Rams best shot at competing in the most physical division in football isn't to stop the pass, its to stop the run, and you don't accomplish that by having 3 or 4 CB's on every down. I'm not saying that the Rams shouldn't draft another CB, because I agree that we can always use some more depth there, but I think a stud LB (Barr) or Safety (Haha, Pryor) could be just as effective in both the run and passing games than adding a 3rd corner. Unless it's a QB, RB or DE, I say the Rams take the BPA approach in the first couple rounds… Clowney being the only exception in my book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bald_81 View Post

    Robert Quinn started one game his rookie year. He was subbing in and out with James Hall throughout the season. I'm glad the Rams weren't worried about putting him on the bench when they decided to draft him.

    Three years later he's an All-Pro and potential DPOY. When you get narrow sighted and only focus on what positions can help you next season, that's when you get into trouble.
    Hall was on his way out when Quinn was selected. Long isn't, plus we have Hayes.

    You need to accept that some (most) people here don't agree that we should take Clowney and stop these lame efforts to portray our position as illogical or inconsistent.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -01-31-2014 at 08:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post

    Teams in the same division as the Broncos or Saints might play the majority of their defensive snaps in the nickel, but not teams in the NFC West. The Rams best shot at competing in the most physical division in football isn't to stop the pass, its to stop the run, and you don't accomplish that by having 3 or 4 CB's on every down. I'm not saying that the Rams shouldn't draft another CB, because I agree that we can always use some more depth there, but I think a stud LB (Barr) or Safety (Haha, Pryor) could be just as effective in both the run and passing games than adding a 3rd corner. Unless it's a QB, RB or DE, I say the Rams take the BPA approach in the first couple rounds… Clowney being the only exception in my book.
    Have you bothered looking at my latest mock? I have us taking a S in Round 1 and a CB in Round 2.

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    Re: Potential Trade down Mock

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    Teams in the same division as the Broncos or Saints might play the majority of their defensive snaps in the nickel, but not teams in the NFC West.
    I think it's times like these when it's important to remember that the Rams will only play NFC West teams six times out of a 16-game schedule. Build to counter your division rivals is important, but you can't get tunnel vision in that regard. A third cornerback improves this team's ability to defend multiple receiver sets, but also gives the Rams depth should they suffer an injury to either of their starters. And let's not write off the possibility that this third corner, whomever he is, outplays one of our current starters and wins one of those jobs to help improve our base secondary.

    I'm far from ready to give up on Trumaine or Janoris, but I certainly don't think either have done enough to completely rule out the idea of competition at the position. The Rams didn't have a cornerback who graded out positively by Pro Football Focus this season. According to PFF, Jenkins and Johnson had 18 penalties between them, allowed a combined 9 touchdowns, picked off a combined 4 passes, and both allowed over 60% of passes thrown into their coverage to be completed.

    I agree that safety is a bigger area of weakness, but I really wouldn't sleep on a cornerback if the value is there.

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