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View Poll Results: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

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  • Yes

    9 34.62%
  • No

    17 65.38%
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  1. #46
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Nick, i agree that the ability to get separation for manu needs to be considered. I for one am not qualified to evaluate that. One of the things cited over and over from the pro davis people is target in the red zone and safety valve for bulger. I see no evidence that manu was ever a target in the red zone on a single called play, thus, i for one and not qualified to say that its because he didnt get adequate separation. I will leave that to the coaching staff, rather than amateurs, albeit knowledgeable amateurs, like us.

    I agree that it would be nice to upgrade the tight end. I just dont want to use the 11th pick to do it. As i have said, i am not a huge manu fan, i just think its insufficient evidence. If linehan really believes manu needs to go, i will support that judgement, he is the expert and i defer to him.

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  2. #47
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16
    Your serious? If you say they dropped than I'd hate to see what Huffs did. Greenway was said to be the most impressive LB at the Senior Bowl during practice and didn't get to see playing time. And if you have a LB as smart as Ryans his stock isn't going to drop like a brick.
    Why wouldn't I be? It's not like I'm saying something ridiculous here. RamJackson39, Ryans' biggest fan, even admits that his stock has slipped so much that he may even be available in the second round.

    Greenway was decent but unspectacular at the Senior Bowl, including practices. Once again he seemed to disappear at times, and his most memorable play from that game was when he got completely schooled by DeAngelo Williams on a run. Chad certainly didn't elevate his stock during that week.

    I'm just telling you the impression I'm getting from many different draft sources. There's a reason that, in this article, the author references the fact that the ***** like Greenway, but 7th overall is likely too high to select him, and that the ***** could trade down and still have a good shot at drafting him later in the round.

    Besides, go back and read exactly what I said. My statement was that Greenway went from being a great option at 11th overall to only a good one. Furthermore, I don't think he's the best option the Rams have at that pick, but I didn't say he was horrible value there. I didn't say he was a late first rounder. But his stock as slipped some based on what I've seen and the buzz from other sources. The best thing Greenway can do for his stock is to have a great combine this week. He has the athleticism to perform well.
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  3. #48
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Greenway was said to be the most impressive LB at the Senior Bowl during practice and didn't get to see playing time.
    He was pretty impressive at the practice, but dont kid yourself. No LB saw as much playing time as he did. I dont know how Greenway got the staff to let him play that much, but I think he was only off of the field for a grand total of 1 quarter. DeMeco Ryans saw 2 quarters of action. Abdul Hodge saw 2 quarters of action. Greenway saw three quarters and I'm almost certain that I saw him a few times during the 3rd quarter.

    And I'm of the mind that if Archuleta is brought back, then safety is not as big a need then. But right now he's not under contract, nor do I think he should be brought back, personally. I'm not convinced Archuleta is going to get better than what he was last year simply because of the back injury and how he elected to treat it. But that said, if we bring him back, I hope he surprises me.
    I have based my thoughts on what the coaching staff has said. I just dont see Haslett letting Arch walk away. I also am not convinced that last season had as much to do with Arch still recovering as it had to do with the horrible scheme. It's difficult to make a play when you're never put in a position to do so. Marmie went from being agressive with Arch early on to holding him back in coverage towards the end. Then at the end of the season Vitt started blitzing Arch like crazy and I saw him make some nice plays, I think that he could be a playmaker again.

    I agree with this. He'd be a nice UDFA or late round pick.
    Earlier on I questioned what happened to Peprah during the season. He had been a playmaker for the previous three seasons. I then watched the East-West Shrine game. He impressed me greatly. It was his first game at corner in two seasons, but he played fairly well. I think he'd be a great UDFA who could develop into a great NCB or a very solid #2 guy.

  4. #49
    RamsFan16 Guest

    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    Why wouldn't I be? It's not like I'm saying something ridiculous here. RamJackson39, Ryans' biggest fan, even admits that his stock has slipped so much that he may even be available in the second round.

    Greenway was decent but unspectacular at the Senior Bowl, including practices. Once again he seemed to disappear at times, and his most memorable play from that game was when he got completely schooled by DeAngelo Williams on a run. Chad certainly didn't elevate his stock during that week.

    I'm just telling you the impression I'm getting from many different draft sources. There's a reason that, in this article, the author references the fact that the ***** like Greenway, but 7th overall is likely too high to select him, and that the ***** could trade down and still have a good shot at drafting him later in the round.

    Besides, go back and read exactly what I said. My statement was that Greenway went from being a great option at 11th overall to only a good one. Furthermore, I don't think he's the best option the Rams have at that pick, but I didn't say he was horrible value there. I didn't say he was a late first rounder. But his stock as slipped some based on what I've seen and the buzz from other sources. The best thing Greenway can do for his stock is to have a great combine this week. He has the athleticism to perform well.
    Atleast Greenway and Ryans made an effort to go to the Senior bowl unlike your boy Huff. Shows you how scared he is about his draft falling.

  5. #50
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16
    Atleast Greenway and Ryans made an effort to go to the Senior bowl unlike your boy Huff. Shows you how scared he is about his draft falling.
    LOL The ultimate sign of a weak argument right there. Instead of debating the points being made about Greenway, you change gears and try to trash Huff for not being there.

    There are a number of reasons why top prospects don't participate in events like the Senior Bowl. Were Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Mario Williams, Jimmy Williams, LenDale White, A.J. Hawk, and the exalted Vernon Davis all scared, too?
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  6. #51
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    There are a number of reasons why top prospects don't participate in events like the Senior Bowl. Were Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Mario Williams, Jimmy Williams, LenDale White, A.J. Hawk, and the exalted Vernon Davis all scared, too?
    Thats a weak argument Nick. Bush, Young, White, Davis, and I believe Mario are all Juniors.

    The seniors that you did mention. I believe Leinart didnt go because his stock would have fallen. His arm would have paled in comparison to guys like Croyle and Cutler.

    Hawk is the #1 rated LB. He's not going to fall and I believe he was sore after the bowl game. He decided to take the time to rest instead of attending the game.

    Williams is a nutcase. This guy has seen his stock fall all season. Why he declined, I will never know. It's just another reason why it would be a mistake to draft this guy.

  7. #52
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJackson39
    Thats a weak argument Nick. Bush, Young, White, Davis, and I believe Mario are all Juniors.
    How is it a weak argument? True, those players are juniors, and wouldn't have been elligible for that specific event. That's my mistake for listing them, but it doesn't change my point, which you really didn't address in your response.

    A player choosing not to participate in an event is not an open-and-shut case that he's scared of anything. Nor does it mean anything regarding his stock. Alex Smith chose not to perform at the combine last year, and still went first overall to San Fransisco.

    Let's put it this way. You have two choices:

    (1) Travel a couple of hours by plane to be one of dozens brought in for a job interview in a place you've never been, where your potential boss is going to be looking at dozens of other people?

    or

    (2) Have your potential boss come wherever you're most comfortable to meet with you so that he can look at you specifically and maybe a small handful of other prospects?

    I don't think it's a stretch to believe that most people would rather step up to the plate under the best conditions, and NFL prospects are likely no different. Some will choose to participate in these events. Good for them. But I'm not convinced that a player is trying to hide anything by choosing not to. If anything, I think they're trying to make their best impression.
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  8. #53
    RamJackson39 Guest

    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    How is it a weak argument? True, those players are juniors, and wouldn't have been elligible for that specific event. That's my mistake for listing them, but it doesn't change my point, which you really didn't address in your response.
    Because you only listed about 3 players who could have been there. One guy is a nutcase and the other is solidified as the #1 LB.

    my assumption why Leinart wasnt there because of his weak arm seems to fit perfectly. Had he been compared to a guy like Cutler or Croyle, his arm would have fallen under more scrutiny. Ina way, it's like choosing to build a house out of straw or brick. Do you take the easy way with the straw which may or may not hold up (Leinarts arm) or do you take the brick which will take more time, but ultimately will stand the test of time (Croyle and Cutler)

    This probably doesnt make sense because I have a 103 fever. I'll try to clear it up later.

  9. #54
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    I wouldn't make that big a deal out of whether a guy shows up for the Senior Bowl. After all, anytime you step on the field there's a chance of injury, and that could be disasterous for a guy who is set to go in the top of the first round. What tends to raise the red flag for me is when people don't show up for the combine or worse show up and refuse to participate in key exercises for their position. This is the big event. It's like not bothering to show up for the first round of interviews for a job and telling the employer if they're really interested, they can make an appointment with your secretary and come to your office.

  10. #55
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Guys, I don't any of these fellas are making their own decisions, especially the potential first rounders. They've got their agents in place, and the agents have all sorts of advisors in place to maximize the players worth and therefore the agents worth. These kids are on auto-pilot as far as the NFL is concerned, IMHO. The last decision they made was to choose an agent to make all the rest of the decisions.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  11. #56
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJackson39
    Because you only listed about 3 players who could have been there.
    You're right, and I admitted that some of the names on my list were mistakes.

    But again, how does that make my argument weak? How does that negate my point? It doesn't, because my point is that some players elect not to participate at various events for more reasons than simply being scared.

    A poor example does not negate the entire point being made.
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  12. #57
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    But again, how does that make my argument weak? How does that negate my point? It doesn't, because my point is that some players elect not to participate at various events for more reasons than simply being scared.
    You bring up good points in that it doesnt desplay weakness or fear. Yet, I tend to respect the guys that are there more than the guys that are not. No agent really wants his player to be there, the guy that wants to go out and prove himself at any opportunity shows me that he has a lot of confidence in himself. It gives the players a chance to interact with coaches from the NFL and display their on the field skill. There are a lot of guys that dont play, but they make the trip down here to meet the coaches and learn what the coaches expect of them as players.

    The Senior Bowl isnt extremely important. It is a chance to prove your worth to the coaches there. It is a chance to improve yourself as a player. It's a chance to prove yourself on the field with the eyes of the NFL coaches on you. D'Brickshaw Ferguson didnt have to go. He did though and he improved himself as a player. DeAngelo Williams didnt have to go. He did though and really impressed everyone.

    Guys I dont respect are guys that when given the chance to prove themselves, decide to pass up the opportunity (I.E. Vince Young not throwing at the combine) So watch at the combine. Watch for those guys that turned down the opportunity to be at the Senior Bowl, that also turn down opportunities at the Combine. Those are the guys that I dont want on my team. I want a guy who will prove his worth at a moments notice.

  13. #58
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJackson39
    Yet, I tend to respect the guys that are there more than the guys that are not.
    As do I, 100%. But I can also understand why a player might not be there, and I don't think it's an automatic negative reflection of that player.
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  14. #59
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    Re: Pre-Combine Poll: Should the Rams draft TE Vernon Davis with the 11th overall pick?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    Guys, I don't any of these fellas are making their own decisions, especially the potential first rounders. They've got their agents in place, and the agents have all sorts of advisors in place to maximize the players worth and therefore the agents worth. These kids are on auto-pilot as far as the NFL is concerned, IMHO. The last decision they made was to choose an agent to make all the rest of the decisions.
    True enough, but then you have to worry about why the agent is willing to risk people raising these questions about the player. The implication is that the guy is more likely to hurt his value than he is to help it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the guy wouldn't perform well, but it does make you ask yourself why the agent is making that call. And it is refreshing when you get a guy who is willing to show how good he is anytime anywhere.

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