View Poll Results: Best potential read-option stopper?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • Matt Elam, S, Florida

    4 25.00%
  • Alec Ogletree, LB, Georgia

    6 37.50%
  • Arthur Brown, LB, Kansas State

    1 6.25%
  • Eric Reid, S, LSU

    2 12.50%
  • Jonathan Cyprien, S, FIU

    0 0%
  • Shamarko Thomas, S, Syracuse

    1 6.25%
  • Zavier Gooden, LB, Missouri

    1 6.25%
  • Someone else (who?)

    1 6.25%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
Like Tree4Likes

Thread: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

  1. #1
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    19,050
    Rep Power
    172

    Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    While I would not wish to build an entire defense around the goal of addressing the read option QB trend (which is, of course, prevalent in the NFC West), I do think it would be helpful to have a player or two who could have the role of shadowing running QBs and ensuring that they don't make big plays.

    In all likelihood, such a player would be either a LB or a S, two positions which the Rams are in the market for.

    My choice is Matt Elam. He is exceptional at tracking ballcarriers outside of the tackle box and making big open field hits. Watch his highlight film and you'll see several examples:


    Who's your read-option stopper?


  2. #2
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    2,442
    Rep Power
    73

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    The Rams certainly need better play at safety and OLB in general but I think the shadow/spy method for controlling a read option QB is over-rated. If one has read one's Kipling, one knows that a cobra relies largely on the hesitation of its intended victim to get its chance to strike with superior speed and elusiveness. A disciplined DE pincer and an aggressive combo of speed and strength on the interior DL reduces that advantage. If you wait and watch the cobra, you're screwed.

    So a gap-shooting Sapp-like DT to play off Brockers' anchor would be my preference.

  3. #3
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    19,050
    Rep Power
    172

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    The Rams certainly need better play at safety and OLB in general but I think the shadow/spy method for controlling a read option QB is over-rated. If one has read one's Kipling, one knows that a cobra relies largely on the hesitation of its intended victim to get its chance to strike with superior speed and elusiveness. A disciplined DE pincer and an aggressive combo of speed and strength on the interior DL reduces that advantage. If you wait and watch the cobra, you're screwed.

    So a gap-shooting Sapp-like DT to play off Brockers' anchor would be my preference.
    I have to disagree with you strongly here.

    Read-option QBs are dangerous because they leave the tackle box and create plays.

    The first line of defense is containment. The DEs need to keep the QB from getting to the outside (I happen to think that our 4-3 is better at that task than many 3-4 defenses). DTs shooting the gap are fine, but only if they make the play. If they merely flush the QB outside, they not taking the QB out of his comfort zone (as would be the case with a pocket passer).

    If the QB gets outside, though, you need someone (whether he's a designated shadow or not), who can force the issue by reading, reacting, closing on the ball, and making open field tackles.

    The players on my list are safeties and fast LBs, who I think fit this job description.

  4. #4
    Rambos's Avatar
    Rambos is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Cali
    Age
    50
    Posts
    9,574
    Rep Power
    75

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    After reading this post I went back and watched Kenny Vaccaro vs KSU. He did a nice job when they ran the option. But I think Elam does a better job of penetrating and shutting the play down near the line of scrimmage. Elam is a better box safety IMO. I voted Elam.

  5. #5
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    2,442
    Rep Power
    73

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I have to disagree with you strongly here.

    Read-option QBs are dangerous because they leave the tackle box and create plays.

    The first line of defense is containment. The DEs need to keep the QB from getting to the outside (I happen to think that our 4-3 is better at that task than many 3-4 defenses). DTs shooting the gap are fine, but only if they make the play. If they merely flush the QB outside, they not taking the QB out of his comfort zone (as would be the case with a pocket passer).

    If the QB gets outside, though, you need someone (whether he's a designated shadow or not), who can force the issue by reading, reacting, closing on the ball, and making open field tackles.

    The players on my list are safeties and fast LBs, who I think fit this job description.
    As I said, of course The Rams need better safety & OLB play to make tackles if a runner gets outside....duh.... but I'll take the first line of defense, ie an entire unit, working together to prevent that from happening as a better overall strategy.No LB or safety will have time to react to the option chosen by the QB if the DL doesn't make that QB hesitate. What you're suggesting,imo, is a method for stopping a running QB, not the read option. Over-spy the read option & he throws it over you to the guy you're neglecting in coverage; see the first WASH TD last year.

  6. #6
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    19,050
    Rep Power
    172

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    Again, I think you're reading too much into my use of the word "shadow." I'm not suggesting a designated "spy" as you describe. Rather, I'm talking about players who can read and react quickly when a QB breaks the pocket.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -04-10-2013 at 05:26 PM.

  7. #7
    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Age
    59
    Posts
    2,116
    Rep Power
    41

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    I would like to suggest an extremely athletic and productive player from Mongoose Tech named Riki T. Tavi. I hear that he is faster than quicksilver and fearless to boot.

    He will give the QBs from the twin Evil Empires all they can handle.


    WHAT SAY YE?
    AvengerRam and Tampa_Ram like this.

  8. #8
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    19,050
    Rep Power
    172

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?



    A fine looking prospect.

  9. #9
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    2,442
    Rep Power
    73

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Again, I think you're reading too much into my use of the word "shadow." I'm not suggesting a designated "spy" as you describe. Rather, I'm talking about players who can read and react quickly when a QB breaks the pocket.
    I think once the QB breaks the pocket by design or improv, he has made his read and chosen his option;stopping him once he's a ballcarrier is just football, not stopping that specific strategy. Improved bolting-horse catching skills are greatly to be desired but it's not the same as improving door security,imo.

  10. #10
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is offline Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    19,050
    Rep Power
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post

    I think once the QB breaks the pocket by design or improv, he has made his read and chosen his option;stopping him once he's a ballcarrier is just football, not stopping that specific strategy. Improved bolting-horse catching skills are greatly to be desired but it's not the same as improving door security,imo.
    Not true. Guys like Kaepernick and Wilson are at their most dangerous in the time between the breaking of the pocket and their exercise of an option (run or throw). The players Iisted are the type who can shorten that time and force the issue.

    DTs won't do that.

  11. #11
    TekeRam's Avatar
    TekeRam is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky, United States
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,879
    Rep Power
    71

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    AV's right, and he didn't even go far enough. When the quarterback starts the option attack, he's reading what the defensive end will do to attack the ball. The quarterback's job is to hold onto the ball long enough to make him commit to either the running back or the quarterback, and then to get the bal to the other guy. Because these guys can also throw, you also have to then trust your secondary to defend against him passing the ball on a crossing or other intermediate route.

    Imagine that Wilson has the ball and is running down the line, Long crashes and at that split second, Wilso pulls up and can either pitch it back to Lynch, or toss it up and over Long to a slanting Percy Harvin. That's where we need someone who can quickly react(I'd say a safety), and can go after the pass or the pitch, or meet the QB if he keeps it.
    I believe!

  12. #12
    VegasRam's Avatar
    VegasRam is offline Ram MVP
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Age
    66
    Posts
    1,409
    Rep Power
    53
    It wouldn't kill me if the Rams took Ogletree. - who I think could work here.

    At 22 though, not at 16. Maybe we'll get another Jenkins.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  13. #13
    Randart's Avatar
    Randart is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    646
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    I voted Ogletree, cause I still hope to get a saftey later... If Alec is available he would fit a need. Will be fun to see what this draft shakes out for us, and the direction our brain-trust will go. Definately if Fluker & Cooper are gone Ogletree should be there.

  14. #14
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    2,442
    Rep Power
    73

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Not true. Guys like Kaepernick and Wilson are at their most dangerous in the time between the breaking of the pocket and their exercise of an option (run or throw). The players Iisted are the type who can shorten that time and force the issue.

    DTs won't do that.
    Then don't let them break the pocket. How many times do I have to say it ?

  15. #15
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    2,442
    Rep Power
    73

    Re: Which prospect is a potential mongoose to the read option cobras of the league?

    Quote Originally Posted by TekeRam View Post
    AV's right, and he didn't even go far enough. When the quarterback starts the option attack, he's reading what the defensive end will do to attack the ball. The quarterback's job is to hold onto the ball long enough to make him commit to either the running back or the quarterback, and then to get the bal to the other guy. Because these guys can also throw, you also have to then trust your secondary to defend against him passing the ball on a crossing or other intermediate route.

    Imagine that Wilson has the ball and is running down the line, Long crashes and at that split second, Wilso pulls up and can either pitch it back to Lynch, or toss it up and over Long to a slanting Percy Harvin. That's where we need someone who can quickly react(I'd say a safety), and can go after the pass or the pitch, or meet the QB if he keeps it.
    Don't let him run down the line.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 20
    Last Post: -01-20-2013, 02:34 AM
  2. Replies: 30
    Last Post: -10-04-2009, 02:07 AM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: -12-30-2007, 03:21 PM
  4. Another Option
    By Bar-bq in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: -04-12-2007, 02:10 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: -10-13-2006, 01:26 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •