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Thread: The QB argument

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    peramoure is offline Registered User
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    The QB argument

    Erik Kasilias on ESPN radio made a great point filling in for the Herd this morning. Love this program, just for the record.

    Name a great quarterback that plays for a bad team.

    He followed with:

    Chris Johnson - BEAST - he ran for 2000 yards.

    Stephen Jackson - BEAST - he ran all over teams.

    GREAT teams have GREAT Quarterbacks, and besides LT, DE, CB, QB, there are no other ELITE positions!


    One person brought up MATT SCHAUB. He said - 9-7? Is that bad?
    Another brought up CARSON PALMER. He said "They made the pro bowl!"

    My point is, look at the Saints. The Colts. The Bengals.

    All the teams in the playoffs have elite QBs (or at least good quarterbacks, or up and comer first rounders, etc)

    The Saints have Brees. Their Dline isn't anything to brag about (or their defense for that matter). The Colts have Manning, a clear cut first ballot hall of famer. Their defense is good, but not great by any stretch. Their main DT is ED JOHNSON an undrafted kid!

    Anyhow, that is my point. Trade back a few spots for whoever wants Suh, and draft Bradford or Clausen.

    Peace! Much love Rams fans! I have this MP3 if you would like to listen to it, I have an insider subscription.

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    01d 0rd3r's Avatar
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    Re: The QB argument

    Mark Sanchez?

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    Re: The QB argument

    I tend to agree with that thought process, but there is one problem its extremely difficult to find a great QB.

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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by peramoure View Post
    Erik Kasilias on ESPN radio made a great point filling in for the Herd this morning. Love this program, just for the record.

    Name a great quarterback that plays for a bad team.

    He followed with:

    Chris Johnson - BEAST - he ran for 2000 yards.

    Stephen Jackson - BEAST - he ran all over teams.

    GREAT teams have GREAT Quarterbacks, and besides LT, DE, CB, QB, there are no other ELITE positions!


    One person brought up MATT SCHAUB. He said - 9-7? Is that bad?
    Another brought up CARSON PALMER. He said "They made the pro bowl!"

    My point is, look at the Saints. The Colts. The Bengals.

    All the teams in the playoffs have elite QBs (or at least good quarterbacks, or up and comer first rounders, etc)

    The Saints have Brees. Their Dline isn't anything to brag about (or their defense for that matter). The Colts have Manning, a clear cut first ballot hall of famer. Their defense is good, but not great by any stretch. Their main DT is ED JOHNSON an undrafted kid!

    Anyhow, that is my point. Trade back a few spots for whoever wants Suh, and draft Bradford or Clausen.

    Peace! Much love Rams fans! I have this MP3 if you would like to listen to it, I have an insider subscription.

    David
    Ok I'm back lets poke some holes shall we?

    Ed Johnson is not on the colts.


    The bengals got knocked out in the first round of the playoff's by a team that doesnt even use their QB as their main weapon. What do the jets use again? Yeah I forgot, a great D and a powerful running game.

    The saints D has the most turnovers in the league.

    The Colts D has two of the best defensive lineman in the game, Dwight Freeny and Robert Mathis.

    If the LT wasnt an elite position I dont think they should be getting the Second highest payroll on most teams.

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    Re: The QB argument

    For me it's still this simple: Stay at one and you take Suh. If TB wants to move up to #1 overall and take Suh, fine. I wouldn't ask to much either, because there are so many needs on the RAMs and the guaranteed money for the #1 overall is huge. Realistically, swapping 1s and getting they're 2 would do it for me. And then I'd take Bradford.
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    Re: The QB argument

    Game's are won in the trenches people, build your line's on both sides of the ball and work your way back. On offense id rather take a patient approach and get weapons for my qb before i draft my quarterback so he can have every chacne to come in and succeed and not be traumatized by losing and sacks. I tend to want to build a team from the ground up then starting out with a quarterback personally...

    With the importance of the qb position, the importance of hitting when drafting one increases. You fail at the pick, your going to be set back few years because you were waiting and trying to see if you made the right pick or not and more liely then not..you didn't. BPA unless you don't have a need in that area or your picking in the late rounds..

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    Re: The QB argument

    What round was Brees drafted in again?


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

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    molar_pistol is offline Registered User
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    Re: The QB argument

    it's much more difficult than you seem to suggest to "just down trade a few spots" and take the qb we want. as far as taking a qb over suh, yes you need at least a pretty good quarterback to be able to compete but we're not there yet and neither of those guys are exactly can't-miss prospects, not worth the risk.

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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Varg6 View Post
    What round was Brees drafted in again?
    Second round!

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    Re: The QB argument

    Yes you can say that the teams with the best QBs made the playoffs.

    However the examples you used of the Colts, Saints and Bengals arent great. Brees has been at the Saints since 2006, and yet have now only become a serious contender this season because they have improved on D. Manning has been at the Colts since 98, but again, the Colts only became serious contenders when their D improved. It was the same with the Cardinals last year. The Bengals have had Carson Palmer for years as an elite QB, but this season they made the playoffs despite him because he was poor all season. Aaron Rodgers and the Packers probably would have stayed in the playoffs longer if they had a better OL, which was shocking all year for them.

    So yes, this year the teams in the playoffs had good QBs. But it was more of a coincidence rather than being because of them.

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    Re: The QB argument

    So Trent Dilfer must have been an elite QB? It is all well and fine to espouse acquiring a "franchise" QB, but actually finding one is another matter .. The only guy I can think of that had "can't miss" written all over him entering the draft, was Peyton Manning, but he still had to prove it. That said, put Peyton Manning behind our 2009 O-line, and even he might not have looked so "super." I'm all for building the lines on both O and D at this point, so that when we do make a move for a QB, he'll at least have a shot at finishing a complete season, rather than going on IR after half a season.

    It isn't all about one player: John Elway was pretty good, but he couldn't win a Super Bowl until he was supported with enough talent to fully utilize his skills. This year it seems Suh is head and shoulders the best available player in the upcoming draft, and ours for the taking. According to Devaney, the Rams are looking for impact players, and the Kong fits that bill (on paper as yet) more so than anyone else so far ..

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    Re: The QB argument

    Halarious, sure it isnt what's around the qb that matters because the qb just throws his team on his back and marches to the Superbowl. wake up to reality, this is a team sport. I don't care how good a qb is if he has terrible talent around him they are not making the playoffs. Wasnt Cutler looked at as great and a lot of Rams fans begging for him to come to St. Louis? Not hearing much of that chatter now. Isnt Tom Brady great? His team got waxed by Joe Flacco who threw for what 30 yds and had like 10 pass attempts or something. Why didnt the Steelers make the playoffs? I'll tell you why because their defense was getting gashed without some of their starters playing.

    It doesnt even take a good qb to win the Superbowl or even make it there for that matter. Trent Dilfer ring a bell, terrible qb but has a Superbowl ring. Were Doug Williams or Mark Rypien great? Kerry Collins,Rex Grossman,Jake Delhomme,Rich Gannon,Brad Johnson,Steve Mcnair,Chris Chandler,Drew Bledsoe,Neil Odonnell,Stan Humphries,Jeff Hostetler,Tony Eason,Phil Simms,David Woodley,Ken Anderson,Joe Theisman,Jim Plunkett, and Craig Morton all took their teams to the Superbowl. I wouldnt consider any of those qb's great. Not to mention Elway didnt win untill Terrell Davis came around. This is the ultimate team sport you dont just get to the Superbowl because you have a great qb. You get there by having a great team or at least a really good one.

    So give me a great defense and a good running game and a qb that can manage a game and i'll be just as happy with the ring as I would if we had a great qb with a incredible offense and a servicable defense. Team sports do not rely on one guy, which is why the great qb thing is a load of crap.
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    Re: The QB argument

    I totally agree that it is a team sport, any quarterback wouldn't do good behind the rams O-line. But wouldn't taking bradford be like drafting another bulger? your thoughts? cause i have heard people claming that bradford is the closest thing to peyton manning recently. Which in my standard would rank very high on my list? But i don't know if we can compare him to manning.
    Last edited by hawaiianpunch; -02-01-2010 at 02:57 PM.

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    Re: The QB argument

    That makes sense but it doesn't. Every good team has a good QB. Don't you think Peyton Manning made the talent around him? Who is Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, and even Dallas Clark where all bad before they started playing with Manning.

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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by peramoure View Post
    All the teams in the playoffs have elite QBs
    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    I tend to agree with that thought process, but there is one problem its extremely difficult to find a great QB.
    Exactly. I don't think anyone is saying they'd turn down a great quarterback. The question is whether or not either of the two guys the Rams could take in the first round is going to be great enough to make that selection worth it over better prospects. Bradford is a spread system guy who has durability red flags. Clausen put up great numbers with great talent but has arm strength and attitude concerns. Will either of these guys be great at the next level?

    Furthermore, consider that great NFL QBs are very typically surrounded by some pretty good talent. Peyton Manning is great, but he has a pretty good offense around him as well. Drew Brees is great, but he has a number of weapons at his disposal. Kurt Warner revitalized his career in Arizona and was probably thankful he had Fitz and Boldin to throw to. The list can go on, but until the Rams have some more pieces on offense, I'm not convinced either of these guys could be successful for this team, even if they have the potential to be great.

    You can't just draft a high first round QB and be done with it. Having someone with that kind of talent can be a plus, but it's not an instant solution. Drafting Matt Stafford didn't stop Detroit from picking second in the draft this year, even though he's throwing to Calvin Johnson and also has a first round tight end to target. Meanwhile, the Jets weren't a playoff team because of the insanely rookie season that Mark Sanchez had. They were a playoff team because they combined the league's best running game with the league's best defense (aka the Joe Flacco formula from Baltimore). It also helped that they were 9-7 the year before they added Sanchez.

    It's easy to sit here and say, "Great teams have great QBs, so let's draft a QB." Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is much more complicated than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    That makes sense but it doesn't. Every good team has a good QB. Don't you think Peyton Manning made the talent around him? Who is Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, and even Dallas Clark where all bad before they started playing with Manning.
    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...?
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