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Thread: The QB argument

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    Re: The QB argument

    Yes and it was Oline u failed to mention the past 11 years we went 8 defense and 3 offense the 3 were Jackson which was a rb which made us better and two oline and r o line is still trash


  2. #32
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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsfantyler111 View Post
    Yes and it was Oline u failed to mention the past 11 years we went 8 defense and 3 offense the 3 were Jackson which was a rb which made us better and two oline and r o line is still trash
    are you trying to insinuate that the offensive line is not apart of the offense?
    Last edited by Nick; -02-05-2010 at 02:03 AM. Reason: No need for grammar police

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    Re: The QB argument

    Personally, I think Suh is a valuable commodity. I think there are teams, like the Bucs, who would consider moving down. If the Rams want a QB, they might be able to move down to 3 and pick up a second and a fourth or something along those lines. There is no telling.

    And I did fail to mention Kevin Williams, Ngata, etc. Look at when they were drafted. I was showing RECENT drafts and the impact these highly touted Dlineman have made. Just about every one of the 11-12 Dlineman drafted in the first round of the 07 and 08 drafts are borderline busts or clear cut busts.

    So, again, a QB could be a bust as well, just like I am making the case that Suh could not live up to the hype. I would prefer to take a chance on a QB over a DT. My opinion.

    I like Suh, in fact I LOVE Suh and wanted him initially. After thinking it over I'd prefer a QB.
    Last edited by Nick; -02-05-2010 at 02:03 AM. Reason: No need for policing grammar police

  4. #34
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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by peramoure View Post
    And I did fail to mention Kevin Williams, Ngata, etc. Look at when they were drafted. I was showing RECENT drafts and the impact these highly touted Dlineman have made. Just about every one of the 11-12 Dlineman drafted in the first round of the 07 and 08 drafts are borderline busts or clear cut busts.
    Meaning you were shaping your argument by only including certain pieces of information in order to make it more convincing. That's understandable for a persuasive argument, but you seemed to hold it against Suh advocates that they'd try to do the same ("Everyone who wants Suh doesn't mention Gholston, Dorsey, Long.").

    Truth be told, I don't see many Clausen or Bradford advocates going out of their way to talk about JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn either, so I just don't see what you're trying to accomplish with that avenue.

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    peramoure is offline Registered User
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    Re: The QB argument

    No buddy. Recent drafts are important because they are RECENT. We're looking at the top 12 or 13 guys drafted in the first and you want me to go back until I've found someone who made a giant impact so it fits your model. Just acknowledge that most Dlineman in recent years have been busts! I'm not saying Suh will, but Suh backers here seem to see him as the second coming of christ or something.

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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by peramoure View Post
    No buddy. Recent drafts are important because they are RECENT.
    No, "recent" drafts are important because they strengthen your argument. As in, you only want to look back two years because those examples work for your point. But you don't want to look back, say, one more year to 2006 because then Mario Williams, Haloti Ngata, and Brodrick Bunkley would be included in the conversation and that works against your argument.

    The problem I have isn't that you're trying to emphasize the information that supports your position. We all do that. Instead, my concern is that you seem to hold it against Suh fans that they're not emphasizing recent busts at the position as part of their argument for Suh. As if anyone really does that.

    Again, it's not like you or other QB advocates are running around talking about QB busts like JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn every time you make an argument for drafting a QB, so to hold that against Suh advocates in particular is pretty wrong in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by peramoure View Post
    I'm not saying Suh will, but Suh backers here seem to see him as the second coming of christ or something.
    Except they don't, and I'm struggling to figure out why you'd even say something like that except to try and make the Suh advocates sound unreasonable. There's no room for this kind of stuff in meaningful discussion.

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    Re: The QB argument

    Honestly I think arguing on whether a player is going to be a bust based on previous drafts is kind of ridiculous...these are different players, are you saying you shouldn't draft a player because some other guy at the same position didnt work out??? If that was the rams strategy they should forfeit all of their picks... busts happen at every position. The draft is an in-exact science. The only thing the Rams can do is draft the guy they like the most.

    As for the Qb debate,
    Although I love Suh, after watching the rams offence last year I think they need to shake things up. I like bradford (if his shoulder checks out obviously)...he probably would of been the lions pick last year...if he had come out...

  8. #38
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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Damned Ramz View Post
    Honestly I think arguing on whether a player is going to be a bust based on previous drafts is kind of ridiculous...these are different players, are you saying you shouldn't draft a player because some other guy at the same position didnt work out??? If that was the rams strategy they should forfeit all of their picks... busts happen at every position. The draft is an in-exact science. The only thing the Rams can do is draft the guy they like the most.

    As for the Qb debate,
    Although I love Suh, after watching the rams offence last year I think they need to shake things up. I like bradford (if his shoulder checks out obviously)...he probably would of been the lions pick last year...if he had come out...
    This is a good post except for the fact you are asking the Rams to draft a qb who couldnt hold up in college. He's going to take plenty of hits just like the one he got hurt with in the NFL. The Rams offensive line is well very offensive. I don't see how drafting a qb 1st overall improves this team in the slightest. I'd rather pick some positions that will help this team and address the o-line and pick a qb later in the draft. We don't need to draft a rookie first overall to get shell shocked and beat up behind a terrible o-line. Yet some people want Vick,Campbell, or Pennington to come in here and make things better? That is freaking laughable, i'm not sure Manning or Brady could make this team much better with our current o-line. Sure maybe we would have won four games instead of 1 big deal.

    I'm not saying we should keep Bulger but for the life of me can't figure out why people think a new qb is going to magically fix the o-line baffles me. When you only have about 1.5 seconds to get rid of the ball your in trouble not to mention the young wr's not being where they are supposed to be and dropping passes. How does a qb fix all of these things? Bulger did hit a lot of wr's right in the hands and they dropped the passes. Is the new qb going to somehow hit them in a better part of their hands? It's obvious we will need to get a qb but 1st overall on a team with a million glaring needs is a wasted pick in my opinion. Do people really see franchise qb in any of the guys coming out or are they just the best qb's in what is a bad qb class in my opinion? The best qb stayed in school and it was Jake Locker. If he had declared I would have been saying he's worth the 1st pick. None of the remaining guys are franchise material.
    Just Fix It

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    Re: The QB argument

    Brees has the best O-line in the league. JETS drafted O-line in the first rounds before drafting Sanchez. Take a rookie QB - however good he was in college and stick him behind a horrible o-line, and you may end up with someone like David Carr.

    having the right weapons to throw to is essential - having the time to actually complete the throw is vital !

  10. #40
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    Re: The QB argument

    This Bradford=Fragile business is getting pretty lame to me. First off, does the guy have a history of injuries besides the shoulder? If not, we have to focus on this ONE injury he received on a very unfortunate fall. He fell awkwardly and landed in a perfect position for his shoulder to go awry. He rehabbed, came back way too early from that injury, and understandably, re injured the very same shoulder. Injuries can happen to the best athlete on the planet and they are more luck than actual physical conditioning.

    Guy slips on a ketchup spill at McDonalds, tries to stop himself from falling, sticks that foot out ends up rolling his ankle to the point where it breaks. Is he fragile? No, he simply was on the wrong end of bad luck that day.

    The situation with Bradford is getting blown out of proportion to the point where guys call him a toothpick as if he goes down once a year. Guys come back from shoulder injuries these days stronger than ever. Bradford has also reportedly bulked up to a solid 230. Yes he got injured but calling him fragile or injury prone seems to be a stretch in my opinion.

    @Rammiser another thing that is bothering me is the whole argument that this o-line is just terrible. This o-line is average when its starters are healthy and that's more than adequate for a Quarterback to be successful, the line im sure your referring to is the one towards the latter part of the season that couldn't block a lego which was due to lack of cohersion as a unit, lack of experience as there were some late round rookies, and playing out of position for some. Let's stop the "terrible o-line" crap because its just an excuse. When healthy our line is just fine.

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    Re: The QB argument

    How about this criticism?

    Bob Stoops' Oklahoma offense has produced multiple Heisman-Trophy winning QBs who put up prolific numbers on offense and won a lot at the college level.

    It has not, however, produced a single successful starting QB in the NFL.

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    Re: The QB argument

    no it is but has it done a nything to help us yet? no so we deff need a franchise qb....n u lose the agrument like i said we draft more defense n they havent been to good either

  13. #43
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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsfantyler111 View Post
    no it is but has it done a nything to help us yet? no so we deff need a franchise qb....n u lose the agrument like i said we draft more defense n they havent been to good either
    Mind translating that 1337 into English honey?

    I will suggest that the defense has not been given enough time to develop, especially since they haven't had a development-minded coach prior to Spags coming in.

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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    This Bradford=Fragile business is getting pretty lame to me. First off, does the guy have a history of injuries besides the shoulder? If not, we have to focus on this ONE injury he received on a very unfortunate fall. He fell awkwardly and landed in a perfect position for his shoulder to go awry. He rehabbed, came back way too early from that injury, and understandably, re injured the very same shoulder. Injuries can happen to the best athlete on the planet and they are more luck than actual physical conditioning.

    Guy slips on a ketchup spill at McDonalds, tries to stop himself from falling, sticks that foot out ends up rolling his ankle to the point where it breaks. Is he fragile? No, he simply was on the wrong end of bad luck that day.

    The situation with Bradford is getting blown out of proportion to the point where guys call him a toothpick as if he goes down once a year. Guys come back from shoulder injuries these days stronger than ever. Bradford has also reportedly bulked up to a solid 230. Yes he got injured but calling him fragile or injury prone seems to be a stretch in my opinion.

    @Rammiser another thing that is bothering me is the whole argument that this o-line is just terrible. This o-line is average when its starters are healthy and that's more than adequate for a Quarterback to be successful, the line im sure your referring to is the one towards the latter part of the season that couldn't block a lego which was due to lack of cohersion as a unit, lack of experience as there were some late round rookies, and playing out of position for some. Let's stop the "terrible o-line" crap because its just an excuse. When healthy our line is just fine.
    bradford had a couple of concussions and an elbow injury on top of the 2 shoulder injuries this year, fact is he was protected VERY well throughout his college career and rarely took hits, and tended to get hurt when he did get hit. does that mean 100% that he's going to be injury-prone in the nfl and never get his career going? no, but it means he's a risk we don't need at #1.

    this whole argument of who we should draft based on who has or hasn't been busts in the past is stupid, you grade guys on an individual basis.

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    Re: The QB argument

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    How about this criticism?

    Bob Stoops' Oklahoma offense has produced multiple Heisman-Trophy winning QBs who put up prolific numbers on offense and won a lot at the college level.

    It has not, however, produced a single successful starting QB in the NFL.

    Peoria, this is just silly, and you know it. This is like saying, well, Andre Ware and David Klingler came out of Houston, and all quarterbacks coming from Uni of Houston are system quarterbacks and have been busts.

    Therefor, Kevin Kolb must be a bust.

    It isn't sound logic, and just like Kevin Kolb had intangibles that the other system quartbacks did not have, Sam Bradford has the accuracy and arm that other Oklahoma quarterbacks did not have.

    To whoever knocked the Tyler guy.. he can't type very well, and doesn't punctuate, and isn't very well spoken, but cut the guy some slack instead of just knocking on him and ignoring his point.

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