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  1. #1
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    Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    Let me preface this by saying that I was thinking about the Rams’ options with their first round pick, and as I continued to think about the possibilities, a thought occurred to me. I don’t know if it’s a good thought, I don’t know if it’s an accurate thought. I’m not even sure I completely agree with it myself. But it’s something that crossed my mind that I wanted to get some input on.

    Here’s the question: Is there a scenario in which the Rams take a quarterback with the first overall pick in this draft?

    To some, the answer is no way – Suh is the pick the whole way. To others, the answer is absolutely – if the Rams think Clausen or Bradford are franchise-caliber quarterbacks, they should take them without question. So obviously there’s a scenario where it could happen, right?

    Anything’s possible in the draft, so the Rams certainly could take a quarterback with the first overall pick. But consider this - Ndamukong Suh is highly regarded around the league. More than anyone else, he’s viewed as the best overall prospect in this class. In talks with NFL front office personnel, Peter King reported that many felt Suh was the best defensive prospect to come out in quite some time. Some have gone so far as to compare him to Reggie White.

    That’s lofty praise, and it’s the kind of praise that makes you believe teams will be willing to trade up to the first overall pick when normally such talk would be pretty ridiculous. The team that some Rams fans have their eyes on is Tampa Bay. As trading partners, the Bucs make sense for a couple of reasons.

    One, the main reason trading down is so hard is because it takes two teams to pull it off. But Tampa looks like an ideal partner. Picking third in the draft, Tampa is desperate for help at the DT position. And it’s very likely that they could miss out on both of the top tackles, if the Rams select Suh and the Detroit Lions select Oklahoma lineman Gerald McCoy. Now, this appears to be a rather deep class at the defensive tackle position. The Buccaneers are also a team trying to rebuild themselves into a contender, so they’re not going to mortgage the stadium in order to move up and take Suh. But I have little doubt that they’d be interested in trading something in order to move up and take such a highly regarded player.

    Two, and more importantly to the Rams, neither the Buccaneers nor the Lions will have any interest in drafting a quarterback with their first pick. Both took quarterbacks in the first round of last year’s draft, so they’re set at the position. If the Rams are determined to select either Notre Dame’s Jimmy Clausen or Oklahoma’s Sam Bradford as their first round pick, they can afford to swap picks with Tampa Bay and will in all likelihood still have their choice of quarterbacks at that spot. Moving down further than third jeopardizes their chances though, as Washington picks fourth and could look for Jason Campbell’s replacement.

    So again I ask, is there a scenario in which the Rams take a quarterback with the first overall pick?

    I guess my answer would be, why would they? Why take a quarterback first overall when in all likelihood you can trade down two spots, take that same quarterback, and acquire some other goodies in the process?

    After all, I’d argue that it’s not just possible but it’s rather likely that the Rams receive some kind of trade offer from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I don’t think it’s going to be a blockbuster offer, but will a third rounder in 2010 and 2011 get it done? Probably. Would a second rounder in 2010 and a conditional mid round pick in 2011 get it done? Why not?

    If the Rams are determined to take a quarterback, if they’ve made their mind up on one of these young signal callers being their pick, then they need to negotiate with Tampa Bay, come up with an agreement that both parties find acceptable, and move down. The offer from Tampa may not be great, but it will at least be something the Rams can get in addition to the player they want. And that’s the whole point.

    Now, the people who only want Suh probably aren’t keen to this idea. Neither are the mock-makers who don’t like projecting trades. But again, consider the situation.

    If when the draft rolls around the Rams have made up their mind to take a quarterback, if they’ve ruled out Suh because they think the opportunity to take a QB of the future is too good to pass up, then how can they take him first overall when they could trade down, get additional picks or players, and take the same quarterback with Tampa’s #3 pick?

    Comments, criticisms, or questions are welcome. As I said, I'm still not sure I completely buy into this train of thought, but it's something I couldn't get out of my head this evening.


  2. #2
    AtlantaRamFan's Avatar
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    Very interesting thought Nick. I didn't think about those 2 teams already having young QB's. Its definitely a possibility, though it all hangs on how highly the organization views the QB's. Should be interesting to see how the next couple of months play out. I'd imagine that if a QB was picked at #3 and the QB turned out to be a bust, or even started slowly, there would be a large outcry from writers and fans about the Rams passing on Suh.

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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    I think we can and should trade down but fans have to be realistic about what we can get.

    I think and extra third round pick and maybe something in 2011 is going to be it but that is enough if we really want a quarterback.

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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    I don't see why we should rush into grabbing a QB unless we're head over heels for the guy. At #1, I just don't see it.

    I wish we were like other teams where we could just grab a QB and all of our problems disappeared but that's not going to happen. We're not at that point yet unfortunately.


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    As much as I'd love to grab Suh, if we could pull off a trade like this I would be all for it. Especially if we could manage to grab another 2nd rounder like one of your proposed ideas. We have so many holes to fill, the more draft picks the better. Having the #3, #33 and #35 pick all in one draft would do us wonders. Keep in mind this is a deep draft for DTs, so if we go for a QB instead of Suh in round one there could still be some nice options for us at the top of round 2, and we would still have that other second rounder for an OLB, RB, WR or whoever would present the best value for us.

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    RAMarkable is online now Registered User
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Let me preface this by saying that I was thinking about the Ramsí options with their first round pick, and as I continued to think about the possibilities, a thought occurred to me. I donít know if itís a good thought, I donít know if itís an accurate thought. Iím not even sure I completely agree with it myself. But itís something that crossed my mind that I wanted to get some input on.

    Hereís the question: Is there a scenario in which the Rams take a quarterback with the first overall pick in this draft?

    To some, the answer is no way Ė Suh is the pick the whole way. To others, the answer is absolutely Ė if the Rams think Clausen or Bradford are franchise-caliber quarterbacks, they should take them without question. So obviously thereís a scenario where it could happen, right?

    Anythingís possible in the draft, so the Rams certainly could take a quarterback with the first overall pick. But consider this - Ndamukong Suh is highly regarded around the league. More than anyone else, heís viewed as the best overall prospect in this class. In talks with NFL front office personnel, Peter King reported that many felt Suh was the best defensive prospect to come out in quite some time. Some have gone so far as to compare him to Reggie White.

    Thatís lofty praise, and itís the kind of praise that makes you believe teams will be willing to trade up to the first overall pick when normally such talk would be pretty ridiculous. The team that some Rams fans have their eyes on is Tampa Bay. As trading partners, the Bucs make sense for a couple of reasons.

    One, the main reason trading down is so hard is because it takes two teams to pull it off. But Tampa looks like an ideal partner. Picking third in the draft, Tampa is desperate for help at the DT position. And itís very likely that they could miss out on both of the top tackles, if the Rams select Suh and the Detroit Lions select Oklahoma lineman Gerald McCoy. Now, this appears to be a rather deep class at the defensive tackle position. The Buccaneers are also a team trying to rebuild themselves into a contender, so theyíre not going to mortgage the stadium in order to move up and take Suh. But I have little doubt that theyíd be interested in trading something in order to move up and take such a highly regarded player.

    Two, and more importantly to the Rams, neither the Buccaneers nor the Lions will have any interest in drafting a quarterback with their first pick. Both took quarterbacks in the first round of last yearís draft, so theyíre set at the position. If the Rams are determined to select either Notre Dameís Jimmy Clausen or Oklahomaís Sam Bradford as their first round pick, they can afford to swap picks with Tampa Bay and will in all likelihood still have their choice of quarterbacks at that spot. Moving down further than third jeopardizes their chances though, as Washington picks fourth and could look for Jason Campbellís replacement.

    So again I ask, is there a scenario in which the Rams take a quarterback with the first overall pick?

    I guess my answer would be, why would they? Why take a quarterback first overall when in all likelihood you can trade down two spots, take that same quarterback, and acquire some other goodies in the process?

    After all, Iíd argue that itís not just possible but itís rather likely that the Rams receive some kind of trade offer from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I donít think itís going to be a blockbuster offer, but will a third rounder in 2010 and 2011 get it done? Probably. Would a second rounder in 2010 and a conditional mid round pick in 2011 get it done? Why not?

    If the Rams are determined to take a quarterback, if theyíve made their mind up on one of these young signal callers being their pick, then they need to negotiate with Tampa Bay, come up with an agreement that both parties find acceptable, and move down. The offer from Tampa may not be great, but it will at least be something the Rams can get in addition to the player they want. And thatís the whole point.

    Now, the people who only want Suh probably arenít keen to this idea. Neither are the mock-makers who donít like projecting trades. But again, consider the situation.

    If when the draft rolls around the Rams have made up their mind to take a quarterback, if theyíve ruled out Suh because they think the opportunity to take a QB of the future is too good to pass up, then how can they take him first overall when they could trade down, get additional picks or players, and take the same quarterback with Tampaís #3 pick?

    Comments, criticisms, or questions are welcome. As I said, I'm still not sure I completely buy into this train of thought, but it's something I couldn't get out of my head this evening.
    I am totally on board your train (of thought). The reasons why are obvious:this deal just makes too much sense for both Tampa Bay and the Rams.

    I mean you just gotta know that the Bucs are chomping at the possibility of getting a cornerstone player like Suh (or McCoy, for that matter).

    And I'm sure they will say a lot of nice things about Eric Berry in the coming days, but let's be real here. Remember, not too long ago, the Bucs had a guy named Sapp and they know first hand what a dominant DT can do.

    At this point in the process it is my opinion that at least one or probably both of the QBs will elevate and grade out to the top 3 of this draft.

    Therefore, it absolutely behooves the Rams to get one of them. As fate would have it Tampa Bay has TWO second round picks this year so a they can make a trade without really hurting their own rebuilding plans

    According the the Draft Value chart that I have the following trade could happen.

    The Rams trade their first pick to Tampa
    The Bucs trade their 1st, one of their 2nds, and a 3rd to the Rams.

    One other thing I think should be mentioned. We need to try to put ourselves in Billy's shoes. With all of his experience in the NFL would he really pass on a QB? I don't think so.

    I am going to miss seeing Ndamakong Suh in a Rams uniform, but we must make this move for a franchise QB.

    The opportunity is here, the time is now.

    WHAT SAY YE?

  7. #7
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    I'm always looking for the best and quickest way to bring this team back into contention.

    So trades for extra picks always interest me.

    In this case however, I don't see it for at least 3 reasons.

    1) Suh is far and away better than any QB we could take in this draft. And simply too good to pass on.

    2) We need a dominating DT just as much as we need a QB.

    and 3) There will undoubtedly be a better valued QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. McCoy in the 2nd round is better than Clausen or Bradford in the 1st.

  8. #8
    DistantRam's Avatar
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    The scenario, as has been oulined in the opening post, is that a QB will make more of an impact than a DT.

    Only the coaching staff can make that decision.
    Last edited by DistantRam; -01-19-2010 at 10:27 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    Truthfully, I dont think this would ever happen , and even if it did, i wouldn't do it. Think this way. A dominating DT will stop the run and help in pass. He will make everyone around him better which would make us overall a better defense (that could put points on the board). There is no possibility of us passing on Ndamukong, we just can't, and why? when u can draft Tony Pike, Sean Canfield or Dan LeFevour in the third..

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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    I Dont Know Whats Going To Happen But I Am Really Excited!!!

  11. #11
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaRamFan View Post
    Very interesting thought Nick. I didn't think about those 2 teams already having young QB's. Its definitely a possibility, though it all hangs on how highly the organization views the QB's. Should be interesting to see how the next couple of months play out. I'd imagine that if a QB was picked at #3 and the QB turned out to be a bust, or even started slowly, there would be a large outcry from writers and fans about the Rams passing on Suh.
    Agreed 100%. And I think the bust rate is a lot lower for Suh than it is for either of these quarterbacks. That's why I think if the Rams stay @ 1st overall, Suh is the obvious selection. But if this franchise decides that one of the quarterbacks should be their pick, then they need to move down, acquire more resources, and make that pick at the three-spot.

    I just don't see any reason for the Rams to take a quarterback first overall when they could take the same player two picks later and acquire additional resources in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambunctious View Post
    I think we can and should trade down but fans have to be realistic about what we can get.

    I think and extra third round pick and maybe something in 2011 is going to be it but that is enough if we really want a quarterback.
    I don't think Tampa is going to sell the farm to trade up, either. They have rebuilding of their own to accomplish. That said, they do have an extra second rounder from the Bears. If the Rams could swap firsts with the Bucs in exchange for a second rounder, that might be as good as it's going to get in terms of trade package.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varg6 View Post
    I don't see why we should rush into grabbing a QB unless we're head over heels for the guy. At #1, I just don't see it.

    I wish we were like other teams where we could just grab a QB and all of our problems disappeared but that's not going to happen. We're not at that point yet unfortunately.
    I agree entirely. My point is more about making the case that, if the Rams decide to take a quarterback, then they need to trade down with the Bucs in order to make that pick. Taking a QB first overall when there's at least a solid chance you can trade with Tampa, get additional resources, and take that same QB just doesn't make sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    According the the Draft Value chart that I have the following trade could happen.

    The Rams trade their first pick to Tampa
    The Bucs trade their 1st, one of their 2nds, and a 3rd to the Rams.
    That might work out to be even on the trade value chart, but I don't see Tampa making that deal. Their first and one of their seconds might be the best they offer, MAYBE a conditional pick in 2011 but that might be stretching it. They may covet Suh, but I don't think they're likely to throw a boatload of picks in a package for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    I'm always looking for the best and quickest way to bring this team back into contention.

    So trades for extra picks always interest me.

    In this case however, I don't see it for at least 3 reasons.

    1) Suh is far and away better than any QB we could take in this draft. And simply too good to pass on.

    2) We need a dominating DT just as much as we need a QB.

    and 3) There will undoubtedly be a better valued QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. McCoy in the 2nd round is better than Clausen or Bradford in the 1st.
    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Truthfully, I dont think this would ever happen , and even if it did, i wouldn't do it. Think this way. A dominating DT will stop the run and help in pass. He will make everyone around him better which would make us overall a better defense (that could put points on the board). There is no possibility of us passing on Ndamukong, we just can't, and why? when u can draft Tony Pike, Sean Canfield or Dan LeFevour in the third..
    You're preaching to the choir here; Suh is my preference as well. I'm simply examining the logic behind taking a QB, and to me, there isn't a strong case at all to take one first overall when you could likely trade down with Tampa and take the same guy while acquiring more resources in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by DistantRam View Post
    The scenario, as has been oulined in the opening post, is that a QB will make more of an impact than a DT.

    Only the coaching staff can make that decision.
    I don't think I specified why the Rams would elect to take a QB over a DT in his hypothetical. Just that if they did make that decision, then it only makes sense to move down in order to make that pick.

    Obviously it's all up to the coaching staff, but I think if they take a quarterback first overall, they'll have missed an opportunity to acquire more picks to help this team in a likely trade-down scenario.

  12. #12
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Agreed 100%. And I think the bust rate is a lot lower for Suh than it is for either of these quarterbacks. That's why I think if the Rams stay @ 1st overall, Suh is the obvious selection. But if this franchise decides that one of the quarterbacks should be their pick, then they need to move down, acquire more resources, and make that pick at the three-spot.

    I just don't see any reason for the Rams to take a quarterback first overall when they could take the same player two picks later and acquire additional resources in the process.
    In order for this to happen, the Rams MUST do something worth noting in the free agency period and bring in a viable QB to St. Louis. The problem last year was that everyone and their grandmother knew the Rams were going to go OT with the second pick because they had done nothing to justify going in any other direction (even if Sanchez was a particularly tempting choice).

    You could even look at Detroit. What did Detroit do in free agency prior to the draft to shore up their QB position? Nothing. They let Orlovsky leave plus they traded Kitna to the Cowboys. They had Culpepper and Stanton on the roster heading into the draft. Meanwhile, they acquired Julian Peterson from the Seahawks which essentially eliminated Aaron Curry as a possibility at #1. It was pretty obvious that they were going to take a QB with the #1 pick.

    If the Rams make a substantial change or move at QB to show other teams that they could potentially take Suh, then it would definitely help their cause in trying to make a move with Tampa. We could get a veteran, stop-gap QB and still draft one with our first pick. However, if we don't do anything of that sort, then it won't be easy for such a trade down possibility to occur. I mean, if Tampa knows that we are targeting a QB and that one of Suh or McCoy will fall in their laps, why even bother trading up and giving away picks (especially this year with the potential of an uncapped free agency season, draft picks will be a hot commodity)? Unless they have Suh rated much, much higher than McCoy, they can just stay at #3 and watch us take Clausen/Bradford and then get whoever falls to them. I am all for a trade down scenario if QB is the route we choose to take, we just need to make something happen in order for it not to be a forgone conclusion like it was last year.
    Last edited by Bald_81; -01-20-2010 at 11:59 PM.

  13. #13
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    I have a hard time believing that, even if the Rams fall in love with one of the top QBs, they'd just take one with the first pick without at least trying to trade down with Detroit or Tampa. As you said, those two teams are not a threat to take a QB with the first pick, having both spend first round selections on a QB last year (of course, it is at least possible that the Rams could trade to #3 and some other team could then trade up to get to the second spot to beat the Rams to the punch).

    The tougher issue is... what if neither team bites? Do the Rams still go with the QB or do they then go with Suh? Not sure.

  14. #14
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I have a hard time believing that, even if the Rams fall in love with one of the top QBs, they'd just take one with the first pick without at least trying to trade down with Detroit or Tampa. As you said, those two teams are not a threat to take a QB with the first pick, having both spend first round selections on a QB last year (of course, it is at least possible that the Rams could trade to #3 and some other team could then trade up to get to the second spot to beat the Rams to the punch).

    The tougher issue is... what if neither team bites? Do the Rams still go with the QB or do they then go with Suh? Not sure.
    Yeah, I was thinking that same thing myself. If neither team bites, do we drop down farther and try for whichever QB happens to fall farther? I think we'd just stick with Suh and the 1st overall and maybe fish for a QB in later rounds.

  15. #15
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    Re: Question: Is there a scenario where the Rams take a QB first overall?

    When your rebuilding and really not expected to do much ..then whats the point of going nuts trying to get all the picks and get franchise qbs in THIS draft. There's guys that fit the bill of Franchise every single year and that's most likely not going to change. You need cornerstones and the more you add this year the better you will be set for the future. taking the clear cut dominant player this year just makes all the sense in the world giving the state of our team. Most fans ive talked to arent expecting a 1999 season where we do a 360 and win a superbowl. This is expected to be a long process so do the thing right and not mess it up trying to be a crowd pleaser. Either go for a QB of the future in a later round or wait until next year.

    If you do draft one this year you miss out on Locker or Mallet the following year who both havfe great potential. If your impatient and MUST have your guy this year and the guy you pick doesnt pan out, youve set teh rebuilding back years through trial and error of wasting your pick and time playing a guy who isnt who you want.

    Im for one am not a sloppy seconds kind of guy. I believe if your going to do it then do it right. If the rams are picking first and dont receive a better offer than what Nick suggested was most likely, you pass. Get your Suh, BPA second round, BPA third round, etc, then when you hit the later rounds if there's no absolute steals go for the boom or bust picks, the guys like Graham that have outstanding potential.

    Devaney said himself, there in the business of getting PLAYMAKERS, guys who sack the QB, bust runs for 80 yards, make big time catches.

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