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  1. #1
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Julius Peppers has reportedly stated that, if franchised, he'll ask for a trade. The Rams COULD afford to get into that discusson.

    First... two caveats.

    1. I am not saying the Rams WILL try to trade for Peppers. I have no reason to presume this.

    2. I am aware that Peppers has also stated that he would like to play in a 3-4. That said, I don't know if that would ultimately be a "deal breaker."

    Here's my thought. The Rams COULD offer the Panthers a package that includes some, but not all, of the following commodities:

    Orlando Pace - if the Panthers loss Jordan Gross to free agency, Pace would be a very good stop-gap for them, allowing them to devote their first round draft choice to a different position.

    Leonard Little - while Little's performance has declined in recent years, largely due to injury, he could be a good short-term replacement for Peppers.

    Torry Holt - Holt obviously would love to play in Carolina, and he could be very productive opposite Steve Smith, who is still young enough to draw double teams.

    Pisa Tinoisamoa - With Witherspoon moving to the WLB spot, Pisa could be the odd man out. Carolina could have a use for him, and his contract would not be a huge burden to them.

    First Round Pick*: I would be very reluctant to include the Rams' first round pick in this deal, unless the Rams also received the Panthers' first rounder in return.

    Second Round Pick: I would, however, consider including the Rams second round pick.

    The key here for the Rams is cap room. By including Pace and/or Holt in the deal, a significant amount of cap room is cleared to sign Peppers long term. Little and Pisa's impact would be smaller, but still significant.

    So... if Peppers hits the trade market, should the Rams make a pitch?


  2. #2
    johnnyram's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    I have been wondering the same thing holt and pisa i would trade. As for a pick as well i think that would be offering to much

  3. #3
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    With the state that the Rams have been in defensively the last number of season's IMO they would be foolish not to at least show an intereset in him. Anytime you have a chance to upgrade and improve an area it has to be at least considered.

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    Weddle's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Would be not be better going for Suggs? I'd say he's a better player...

    FootballOutsiders post an offseason article going through each Division called Four Downs. Their analysis of Suggs, Lewis & Scott in the AFC North article makes very interesting reading. I'd highly recommend giving it a read...

    ...and then petitioning for Suggs!

  5. #5
    laram0's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Sure why not? It wouldn't hurt to discuss the possibilities with the Panthers.

  6. #6
    djdeeznutz Guest

    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    1st off the Panthers do not have a 1st rounder this year. THey traded it to the Eagles for Otah.

    I could see this work like this:

    Panthers get:

    WR Torry Holt (after restructre of contract)
    OT Orlando Pace (after restructure of contract)
    DE Leonard Little
    Rams 2009 3rd round pick

    2010 compensation for Peppers play (like the brett farve deal):
    1st rounder if Peppers plays 14 games + 10 sacks
    2nd rounder if Peppers plays 10 + 8 sacks
    3rd rounder if Peppers plays 6 games + 4 sacks
    4th rounder if Peppers plays < 1 games (basically a darft pick is garenteed)

    Rams get:
    Julius Peppers

    2010 compensation for Torry Holt:
    4 rounder if Holt play 16 games
    5 rounder if Holt plays 10 games
    6 rounder if Holt reports to camp (basically garenteed)


    This would allow us to take Jordon Gross, Matt Birk, and possibly bid for Vilma.

  7. #7
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Weddle View Post
    Would be not be better going for Suggs? I'd say he's a better player...

    FootballOutsiders post an offseason article going through each Division called Four Downs. Their analysis of Suggs, Lewis & Scott in the AFC North article makes very interesting reading. I'd highly recommend giving it a read...

    ...and then petitioning for Suggs!
    Suggs is a pure 3-4 guy. Peppers is built like 4-3 DE, regardless of his stated preference to play in a 3--4. Apart from a sub-par 2007 season, Peppers has been far more productive as a pass rusher.

    To me, its not even close. Suggs really does not fit here, unless you think he could play SLB in a 4-3, which I think is questionable. Peppers, playing opposite Long, could be a HUGE upgrade.

  8. #8
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Quote Originally Posted by djdeeznutz View Post
    1st off the Panthers do not have a 1st rounder this year. THey traded it to the Eagles for Otah.
    Good point. One I overlooked.

    I could see this work like this:

    Panthers get:

    WR Torry Holt (after restructre of contract)
    OT Orlando Pace (after restructure of contract)
    DE Leonard Little
    Rams 2009 3rd round pick

    2010 compensation for Peppers play (like the brett farve deal):
    1st rounder if Peppers plays 14 games + 10 sacks
    2nd rounder if Peppers plays 10 + 8 sacks
    3rd rounder if Peppers plays 6 games + 4 sacks
    4th rounder if Peppers plays < 1 games (basically a darft pick is garenteed)

    Rams get:
    Julius Peppers

    2010 compensation for Torry Holt:
    4 rounder if Holt play 16 games
    5 rounder if Holt plays 10 games
    6 rounder if Holt reports to camp (basically garenteed)
    I don't see that working. First, I don't know that the Panthers can absorb all of those salaries. Second, I don't like the notion of a future first rounder being in the possible compensation. I'd rather have the deal completed this year.

    To me, a better trade would be something like Pace, Little or Holt and the Rams' second round pick for Peppers.

  9. #9
    djdeeznutz Guest

    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyram View Post
    I have been wondering the same thing holt and pisa i would trade. As for a pick as well i think that would be offering to much
    offering a pick would not be too much. cuz just look at the players

    Peppers is comming off a 14.5 sack season

    Holt is comming off a horrible season and has knee problems so he does not have much value.

    My advise is to not move pisa cuz he is still only 27 and he had a good year and could easily move ot SLB if Spoon moves to WLB.

  10. #10
    39thebeast's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Yes the Rams COULD do this, but I don't see it. Heres why Jared Allen got a 1st and 3rd. I think they would take picks instead of older players. Unless your putting all those players in a deal along with our second round pick I don't think that is equal to a first and 3rd round pick.

  11. #11
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    "First Round Pick*: I would be very reluctant to include the Rams' first round pick in this deal, unless the Rams also received the Panthers' first rounder in return." avenger ram



    the panthers don't have a first round choice
    just letting you know

  12. #12
    Weddle's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    AvengerRam

    Here is the info I was talking about from FootballOutsiders -

    "At Football Outsiders, we classify tackles in a variety of ways. A "stop" is a tackle for a short gain. A "defeat" is a tackle for no gain or a loss, or a tackle that prevents a conversion on third down. Stops are good plays, defeats are great plays, and the Lewis-Suggs-Scott trio made more than its share of both in 2008.

    Lewis finished 14th in the league in stops, Suggs finished 18th, and Scott finished 30th. Suggs led the NFL with 36 defeats; Lewis was 11th with 27. The average linebacker records between 12 and 18 defeats per year, so those numbers are extraordinary. Scott didn't record many defeats on passing plays, but he and Lewis each earned 12 defeats against the run (tied for 11th in the NFL), while Suggs was second in the league with 17 run defeats. Add them up, and all of those "quiet" big plays were as important to the Ravens defense as Ed Reed's highlight-reel interception returns.

    Replace Suggs, Lewis, and Scott with ordinary linebackers, and the Ravens will lose much more than some sacks and pregame speeches. They would lose about 25 defeats, which would translate into almost as many first downs for opposing offenses. Their stops would also drop to league averages, turning two-yard gains into five-yarders. Opponents' drives would be longer, and because the Ravens would force fewer third-and-long situations, they would also generate fewer sacks, fumbles, and interceptions. Ironically, the tackle totals of the replacement linebackers might actually go up; with teams driving down the field, there would be more opponents to tackle!"


    Obviously they are talking about the impact that the loss of these guys in FA would have on the Ravens, but it highlights how great Suggs played in 2008.

    I bow to your knowledge about 4-3 and 3-4 players though, but I always felt Suggs was fairly versatile (not saying Peppers isn't!)

    To be honest I wouldn't complain about us getting either player in a Rams uniform. My feelings were just that we'd be harder pushed to get Peppers because of his statement about playing in a 3-4 defense, while Suggs has said nothing...

  13. #13
    MauiRam's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    The key here for the Rams is cap room. By including Pace and/or Holt in the deal, a significant amount of cap room is cleared to sign Peppers long term. Little and Pisa's impact would be smaller, but still significant.

    So... if Peppers hits the trade market, should the Rams make a pitch?
    With as many holes as we have on both sides of the ball, we should look at any opportunity to upgrade. Peppers would be sweet if he didn't break the bank. Julius turned 29 last month, and probably has at least 3 or 4 more peak years left. Little I believe turned 35 in October .. don't know how much trade value there is there. At 6'7" and 283 lbs, Julius certainly would fit nicely into our 4-3 scheme. As long as our first round pick is not involved, it would be wonderful to see Peppers wearing horns .. If we could somehow package Holt with this deal, that would even be sweeter, given his cap number. Pace I would prefer to keep, but if Billy and Spags are intent on taking a tackle with the #2 overall pick, then moving Pace would be ok, as the player we select with the #2 overall (presuming we keep it) pick, should get thrown into the fire ASAP given the cap space said player will immediately begin gobbling after collecting his signing bonus.
    Last edited by MauiRam; -02-16-2009 at 07:02 PM.

  14. #14
    Chase the Eagles Fan's Avatar
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    Peppers is a guy that Eagles fans are talking about as well...but I would just hate to see us make another huge signing on a defensive end on the edge of 30 for him bust again (Jevon Kearse)...

    But the defensive line is going to be an area of interest for your new coaching staff...the defense will live and die by it...

    If Peppers is franchised, he can ask for a trade all he want...but it doesn't mean the Panthers have to trade him...and if they do, they're going to expect two first round picks as compensation...

  15. #15
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    Re: The Rams COULD afford Julius Peppers

    I would love it if Peppers was a Ram. He would give our defense a ton of credibility. He would help out every other defensive player on the field. He would command double teams and protection slides his way, and i think Long and Carriker would thrive. He would also occupy blockers for the linebackers, allowing them to roam and make plays. And his biggest impact, he will get to the QB, so he will make our DB's exponentially better.

    In short, I would sell the farm for Julius, but not our 1st overall. I'd give em Holt and Little and a second. Heck I'd through in a third too if they demanded it. If they want Pisa, sure throw him in there. If they can handle Big O's cap, go ahead.

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