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  1. #16
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    i dont know how anyone can question the "motives" of management in the draft. What motive do you think the coaches and management have other than to win and improve the team? The picks may not work out, which doesnt mean that they were bad picks by the way.

    There is nothing wrong with opinion, but the concept of "informed opinion" gets lost a lot around this board. Many of us are forming opinions based on incomplete information. No matter how much you think you know, you dont have access to all the information that the coaches have. Its easy to look back and say "i was right, the rams should have taken the guy i liked because he turned out to be a good player" as long as you are prepared to admit you are wrong, which will be the case most of the time since none of us are professionals at selecting talent.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel



  2. #17
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Thank you general counsel! The draft is over, it is time to focus on what the players we got can do for us instead of griping about why we didn't get player X. What a waste of time ...

  3. #18
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    There is nothing wrong with opinion, but the concept of "informed opinion" gets lost a lot around this board. Many of us are forming opinions based on incomplete information. No matter how much you think you know, you dont have access to all the information that the coaches have. Its easy to look back and say "i was right, the rams should have taken the guy i liked because he turned out to be a good player" as long as you are prepared to admit you are wrong, which will be the case most of the time since none of us are professionals at selecting talent.
    I don't think anyone is sitting around hoping they're right and the Rams are wrong. Quite the contrary, those of us unhappy with aspects of the draft hope that we're wrong (we are fans afterall). That doesn't mean that we don't look at the draft and go, "Huh?"

    I don't see what is so controversial here. If we should just shut up and trust management, let's just roll the forum up and stop talking about it. There is nothing more boring than a bunch of accolytes sitting around waxing and waning on the OK'ness of things.

  4. #19
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Come on. Just admit it we didn't have a good draft. I, as well as many other hoped that we would make some moves (Jenkins/Williams...) but we never. I am not nor have I ever said that I know more then the rams org. but this wasn't a good draft for them, it almost seemes disorganized as if they didn't know what to do from pick to pick.

    BUT PEOPLE LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE, At least we aren't Eagles Fans

  5. #20
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Look guys, it's not about who's right and who's wrong, or who's the expert and who's not. It's about all of us Ram fans offering our "GOD" given right to express our own opinion, (key phrase being, "GOD GIVEN", which means only GOD can take it away), whether others agree with it or not.

    That is what this board is for, right?

  6. #21
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Regarding the draft ... As far as I'm concerned, I thought that the main or, general, response from us fans has been positive, not negative.

    Sure, I realize there isn't a draft in any pro sport that will make every team fan a happy fan (never the negative Nellys), but as I said, what the Rams did the last couple of days I thought struck a nice cord / accord among the fans here in the Clan.

    My scorecard grade: B+ (mainly because I didn't know much about Wade).

  7. #22
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    I pretty much love everything but the second and third round picks.

  8. #23
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by chiguy View Post
    Now, how is this not doing exactly what you're accusing someone else of doing? I think there is a very good argument to be made that the Rams not only didn't really need another RB, they certainly didn't need one in the first round. Yet here you are acting like the expert and suggesting that this argument doesn't hold water?

    Pot. Meet Kettle.
    The difference is quite simple. The RB were talking about has played many years in the NFL and the guys who were drafted have not.


    I have another question if your grading someones work does that not imply you have more knowledge than the individuals who did the work?

  9. #24
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Look guys, it's not about who's right and who's wrong, or who's the expert and who's not. It's about all of us Ram fans offering our "GOD" given right to express our own opinion, (key phrase being, "GOD GIVEN", which means only GOD can take it away), whether others agree with it or not.

    That is what this board is for, right?
    No problem. We have the right to express opinions.

    Let me ask you this if I went to your work place and graded your work would you call that an opinion?

    I probably have little to no experience in what is involved in your work day?

    So do we have the right to grade the draft?

    Am I taking this too serious and need to loosen up the collar and roll with it?

    When some of the fans were grading the draft and some of the reasoning for poor grades just struck a nerve.....

  10. #25
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS View Post
    The difference is quite simple. The RB were talking about has played many years in the NFL and the guys who were drafted have not.
    Oh, so having "more knowledge" only applies when its a rookie as opposed to a veteran? Talk about an abitrary distinction. The real difference is that one is an opinion you have and the other is an opinion with which you disagree.


    I have another question if your grading someones work does that not imply you have more knowledge than the individuals who did the work?
    If the grades were in any shape or form meaningful, then the answer would be yes. This is just a bunch of fans sitting around talking about a team. No NFL executive is going to lose his job based on what we think. So the answer is obviously, no.

  11. #26
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS View Post
    When some of the fans were grading the draft and some of the reasoning for poor grades just struck a nerve.....
    Well, disagreeing with someone's reasoning is different than saying they shouldn't reason at all. You basically said people shouldn't have any reasoning in the initial post here and failed to question anyone's specific logic other than to say, "You don't get an opinion because you're not in the NFL."

  12. #27
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Just for the record, i think that chiguys posts have been fair criticism and well thought out. Its not just that he is entitled to his opinion, but his views on the second round pick are far from extreme our bizarre. There is a strong case to be made that if a comporable pass rusher was available, that would have been a more impactful pick in both the present and the future for the rams, unless you are going to plan your team around depth and be prepared to have gaping holes while banking on a 30 year old guy coming off of surgery.

    Ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  13. #28
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    bottom line is 1, get to play offs 2, win win win! all the rest is fartin' in a hurricane Que no?

  14. #29
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS View Post
    Mistakes?

    So I guess the draft is an exact science so the Rams had all the infromation but must have subtracted when they should have added.

    Darn it can the Rams hire some rocket scientist so we can have a productive draft(Now thats silly). I'm tired of them flopping on drafting a productive DL.....

    What I trying to say is yes you can have an opinion but back it up and do not act like you know more than the experts and I am fine with that....

    If Hilliary wins we just may see that day very soon.......

    Go Rams
    No one said it was a science.

    And yes there are draft mistakes. I would say straightforwardly, for example, that it was a mistake for the Martz/Armey Rams to draft so many players who had physical gifts but had not shown it in actual sustained onfield play. Shepherd, Scott.

    And the fact also remains that no matter how much of a crapshoot the draft is, some are consistently better than others at doing it.

    Softli, for example, was consistently better from 2000-2006 drafting for Carolina than the Martz/Armey combo was at drafting across roughly the same period (2000-2005).

    Has nothing to do with "science" and no one said it did.

    And I don't care if you think I am acting like I know more than the experts. It's just a discussion among fellow fans. No harm in it and yeah, people judge...so what. Others are then free to agree or disagree and so the debate is on. Yay for the debate.

    . . .
    Last edited by z.nrd; -05-01-2007 at 01:52 PM.

  15. #30
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    Re: Negative comments regarding the draft

    You can't judge a draft until three years later. Thats why I always chuckle when a few things are said.

    1. When fans and media start yelling about drafting because of need as a top priority. Why? Rookies that are dominant or change the way a team performs are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. Why fans always think rookies are going to step in and fix problems never ceases to amaze me. SJ was good his rookie year, but did he make an immediate impact until last year? No.

    2. That being said, how the heck can anyone grade a draft the day after? Take Miami for example. They have zero impact players on offense outside of Chambers. Sure they need a QB, but if Quinn was "that good", why didn't Cleveland take him at 3 instead of 22? I'll tell ya, because he has issues that some NFL scouts think that are not fixable. He was actually the fourth QB on the Dolphins big board. Does anyone remember the opening kick off of the NCAA Championship game? Ginn took it to the house and got injured by a teammate during a celebration. When Ginn went out, that took OSU's deep threat out of the game. You watch, Ginn may just dazzle everyone.

    3. The only thing anyone should grade on a yearly basis is the FA signings. Those guys are already established in the league, fans and the FO know about their potential AS PROS, not college athletes.

    How did the Rams do this year? I have no frickin clue and don't claim to have one. I will say this though, I hope Ted Ginn, JR becomes a stud and never signs one autograph in the Miami-Dade area.

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