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Thread: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    I thought it before, and do even more now. They use Watkins just like Tavon Austin as used in college, running end arounds, getting a more than half his receptions behind the line of scrimmage on bubble screens.

    When they looked downfiield against an Ohio State Defense missing their best CB, they went to Bryant, who was as impressive to me as Watkins.

    Watkins long TD wa simply a badly broken defense. he did make a nice catch over a DB one on one for his other score, but overall, compared to what I have seen of Mike Evans and Marquise Lee and others, against a weak OSU pass defense, I am not convinced that Watkins is a top 13 pick.

    The Rams don't need another Austin or Bailey, they need someone who can consistently keep drives alive with 7 yard receptions in a crowd, who can also get deep. They need someone 6-3 or better, with long arms and leaping ability and great ands and toughness.

    I would take DeAndre Hopkins over Watkins, even without his off field criminal record, based on what I see, and how Watkins got most of his catches.

    In the NFL, that bubble screen doesn't work over and over, even with a star receiver.
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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    Thing is that's not the only way Clemson uses him. It just happens to be a major weakness in OSU's defense.

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    I think he can do more than run bubble screens.
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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    He can certainly do more than catch and run on bubble screens, see the nice 30 yard td catch. However, i get barry's point. Sure, it would be nice to have him, but the real need for the Rams is a big strong guy to go with Quick and while i appreciate that we may be forced into taking a wide receiver based on value, i personally hope it doesnt come to that as i think we have other more pressing needs at offensive line, corner and even safety.

    I still like Taje Boyd in the 3rd round if he makes it that far, and the missouri receiver (i tried to watch both games at the same time-green beckham looks pretty good to me, although i appreciate he is not draft eligible this year). Maybe we can use one of our two first round picks next year to get him if quick hasnt emerged (i am assuming we are going to trade the #2 and pick up another #1 next year and something else this year)

    ramming speed to all

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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    I thought it before, and do even more now. They use Watkins just like Tavon Austin as used in college, running end arounds, getting a more than half his receptions behind the line of scrimmage on bubble screens.

    When they looked downfiield against an Ohio State Defense missing their best CB, they went to Bryant, who was as impressive to me as Watkins.

    Watkins long TD wa simply a badly broken defense. he did make a nice catch over a DB one on one for his other score, but overall, compared to what I have seen of Mike Evans and Marquise Lee and others, against a weak OSU pass defense, I am not convinced that Watkins is a top 13 pick.

    The Rams don't need another Austin or Bailey, they need someone who can consistently keep drives alive with 7 yard receptions in a crowd, who can also get deep. They need someone 6-3 or better, with long arms and leaping ability and great ands and toughness.

    I would take DeAndre Hopkins over Watkins, even without his off field criminal record, based on what I see, and how Watkins got most of his catches.

    In the NFL, that bubble screen doesn't work over and over, even with a star receiver.
    First I'd like to say that I don't think Sammy called any of the plays, so if you're disappointed with all the bubble screens, maybe you should take it up with the OC. Sammy's job is to catch passes and get as many yards as he can and he did that better than any receiver in Orange Bowl history.

    Secondly, Sammy Watkins is a supremely talented prospect with excellent speed and hands and is as NFL ready as there is in this draft, at any position. IMO, better than both Mike Evans and Marqise Lee and at this point only rivaled by Kelvin Benjamin, though I give him the edge there as well..

    But I'll take your comments with a grain of salt because you're probably still smartin' from us trading up for Tavon Austin last year.

    Don't think you'll have to worry about Watkins though, because we won't take him at two (although we'll certainly look to trade down), and he'll likely be long gone by 13.

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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    This is beginning to remind me of some of the rants you had last draft season that while insightful make me feel like you want to drum up controversy.

    Did you watch tonights game? That 3rd quarter touchdown catch over the overmatched Ohio St. DB screamed NFL Ready. 16 catches for 220 (80 year history orange bowl RECORDS). I feel like we are in Gladiator.... Barry "Are you not entertained?"

    Not only is Sammy Watkins a FIT for us, but he is a FIT for any NFL team and will give opposing defenses in the NFL a FIT to game plan against.


    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    I am not convinced that Watkins is a top 13 pick.
    You must be the only person in America after watching tonights game, and will be proven wrong in May when he is not only a top 13 pick, but a top 5 pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    In the NFL, that bubble screen doesn't work over and over, even with a star receiver.
    Watch a Bronco game.... seems to work quite well for Demyrius "DT" Thomas. He is the bubble screen king.
    Last edited by THOLTFAN81; -01-04-2014 at 03:16 AM.
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    Funny how he is simultaneously NOT a top 13 pick AND the 10th pick in your mock.
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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    IMO, better than both Mike Evans and Marqise Lee and at this point only rivaled by Kelvin Benjamin, though I give him the edge there as well..
    mmmmmmmmmmm...mmmmmmmmmmmm pushing it i think

    better than evans? Yes

    lee? They both have things they do better than the other, like lee's route running and athleticism, and watkins' size and hands (though hands is close as both can catch very well, though both have drop issues at times)...and both are plenty fast

    kelvin benjamin? I think so too, though he's a bigger receiver, i see watkins go up for the pass, not sure benjamin has the same hops...the catches i see look like he can't jump too high...though idk i might just be seeing lame jumps and missing the high elevation catches
    Last edited by citr92; -01-04-2014 at 05:28 AM.

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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    I don't agree on the part that "he's not worth a top 10 pick", but I don't really know if he is a fit for the Rams like Barry said. I watched a lot of tape on Watkins and he makes a lot of his plays from screens and gadget type plays. This is why I'd like to see him do some more traditional stuff. With all that being said, he has amazing hands, is so damn fast, and gets in and out of breaks quickly. I think he'll pick up the concept of route running and separation relatively easy. The guys a PLAYMAKER.


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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    I was definitely impressed by him too, impressed enough that I wouldn't mind if the Rams traded back from the 2nd pick to grab him (I personally think #2 is too high for a receiver not named Megatron or Larry Fitzgerald). Quick question: is he rated just as high as that Patterson kid was last year, because their game reminds me a lot of each other

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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie25 View Post
    I was definitely impressed by him too, impressed enough that I wouldn't mind if the Rams traded back from the 2nd pick to grab him (I personally think #2 is too high for a receiver not named Megatron or Larry Fitzgerald). Quick question: is he rated just as high as that Patterson kid was last year, because their game reminds me a lot of each other
    I would have Watkins rated higher than Patterson. I liked Cordarelle but he really worried me whether he could pick up an NFL playbook and really get the mental part of it. Watkins has no such questions. Sammy will be solid in the NFL, only thing I'm curious about is if he can go to a team like the Rams or Raiders and be the #1 and carry the team, or whether he needs to go somewhere like Detroit or Tampa Bay and be the #2 for a little bit.
    Last edited by sosa39rams; -01-04-2014 at 09:44 AM.
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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Watkiins Numbers Friday

    Ok, he is a fast player, to be sure, but I watched the game again, and out of ALL those receptions, only TWO or THREE were caught beyond the line of scrimmage.

    That proves nothing to me as far as how good a receiver he is, just that ohio St ate is R EALLY weak against bubble screens. Watkins ran five to ten yards before he was even touched.

    If his whole season was based on such usage, where he hardly ever even goes past the line of scrimmage, even when he doesn't get the ball, then i think he is vastly overrated, as far as some sure thing in the NFL.

    I just don't see how pie eyed fans can look at his actual games and not see some big questions on how his game could work in the NFL, where being physical is a must to be a top WR. Not to mention off field questions, BIG ones.

    The ease of getting yardage on bubble screen after bubble screen is not gonna happen on Sundays. If it did, you would see it getting huge yardage every game.

    The Rams found this out with Austin in 2013, when they tried those plays to get him the ball "in space". In the NFL, there IS no space most of the time.

    Games are won and lost by WR who can get off press coverage, and catch the ball in tight spaces, and hold it after a hard hit.

    12 or 13 behind the line receptions in one game? Please. The other Clemson receivers also got big yardage on t hose screens as did their R B. Ohio State had no answer at all.

    Now the other WR, the one they actually USE as a real wide receiver, Bryant, WAS impressive, making some gr eat end zone plays especially, and he is 6-5.

    I'm just trying to be objective against a sea of guys really buying the Watkins hype, without actually watching each and every catch he makes, and how he is never asked to beat press coverage, which he will get all the time in the NFL.

    The last superfast WR I saw catch nothing but screens and turn them into long gainers was a guy named Clyde Duncan, who the Cardinals used a #1 pick to draft.

    Darius Heyward Bey is another, and so was Donnie Avery.

    I think Watkins will have to play the slot. The Rams HAVE that guy.

    Also his splits show that in the red zone, he is next to invisible.

    Maybe that's because bubble screens don't wok down there.

    He's also not done much at all in his career rushing, nothing like Tavon Austin, not even close.

    Most of his yardage. from his splits is on his own side of the 50.
    cfbstats.com - Sammy Watkins 2013 Player Statistics - Clemson Tigers

    He is a good college receiver, but has WAY too many questions to be a top 10 pick, on the field and off, with the arrests.

    He doesn't seem like a very intelligent guy either, from the interviews I have seen, so can he pick up complicated Pro offense?

    Clemson's seems VERY simplified, to suit Boyd's talents.

    D. Hopkins last year was one of THE first Clemson receivers to be drafted high in at least 25 years. It's not exactly WR U.

    202 of Watkins Bowl yards came after the catch, almost all without even being touched till he had gained 10 yards, due to inept Ohio State, missing their top CB, Brad Roby, who would have had something to say and do about Watkins easy time on those screens.
    Barry Waller

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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    D. Hopkins last year was one of THE first Clemson receivers to be drafted high in at least 25 years. It's not exactly WR U.
    Comments like these do you no good. Before Megatron Georgia Tech wasn't exaclty WRU. Before AJ Green Georgia wasn't exactly WRU. Before Issac Bruce Memphis wasn't exactly WRU. Before Tory Holt NC State wasn't exactly WRU.

    See how foolish those kind of comments are? The fact of the matter is Watkins is a play maker. You line him up in any WR role and he will make plays. He can run all the routes. You cite Avery and DHB trying to compare them to Watkins? First off Watkins as I said can run all the routes. You watched one game of his this past bowl game and are now an expert on him? You're holding it against him and making up statements about his skill set because he played against a mediocre OSU defense missing it's highly over rated CB prospect. The head coach and OC knew they could abuse OSU with the bubble screen. Now in your mind that makes Watkins a flawed WR.

    As you said the Rams figured out how they couldn't use Austin, even though I don't think they'll have to occupy the same role in the offense, They won't need to go through the growing pains with Watkins.

    I personally don't think the Rams go with him but I wouldn't be upset if they did. I think our HC is ultra conservative and if he goes with a WR at all it will be a possession guy in the Anquan Boldin mold. We've seen the game Fisher wants to run. 35 runs and 20-25 passes in a possession type passing game with the occasional down field plays. I'd say it's more likely he spends a pick in the first four rounds on a RB to pair with Stacy and Cunningham than a WR.
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    Re: Sammy Watkins Just Not a Rams Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by citr92 View Post
    mmmmmmmmmmm...mmmmmmmmmmmm pushing it i think

    better than evans? Yes

    lee? They both have things they do better than the other, like lee's route running and athleticism, and watkins' size and hands (though hands is close as both can catch very well, though both have drop issues at times)...and both are plenty fast

    kelvin benjamin? I think so too, though he's a bigger receiver, i see watkins go up for the pass, not sure benjamin has the same hops...the catches i see look like he can't jump too high...though idk i might just be seeing lame jumps and missing the high elevation catches
    You don't have to take my word for it, just look at all the rankings. I doubt you'll see one that has Lee ahead of Watkins. Don't get me wrong, I'm a USC fan and fully understand how good Lee is. I just believe Watkins is better.

    Benjamin is 6'5 with long arms, so obviously he doesn't need to get off the ground as high as some other receivers, but he does. Not to mention how physical he is. He is the only receiver in this draft that I'd possibly take over Sammy Watkins.

    Go watch his tape on youtube, I think you'll see what I mean.

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    Re: Watkiins Numbers Friday

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    I just don't see how pie eyed fans
    Is this really necessary? It certainly doesn't help make your point, and it doesn't promote a civil discussion.

    As far as Watkins, his track speed and athleticism are great, but what makes him special is that he's strong, and he attacks the ball, especially in tight coverage. He doesn't just catch it, he snatches it out of the air, he goes up and fights for it, and he wins those fights. That's what the Rams are lacking at WR, and that's what Watkins would bring to the table. IMO, he has a killer instinct, and an attitude that he's going to get the ball no matter what.

    He impresses the hell out of me, so I guess I'd qualify as a "pie eyed fan".

    I could watch this guy all day :

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