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Thread: Ss

  1. #16
    PHAT-MONEY Guest
    Kenny Phillips is a SS i think.. he should be way ahead of craig steltz... as far as Bigby.. I still have not forgave him for what he did to us.

    alston is no longer with us i don't think.
    Last edited by Nick; -01-23-2008 at 02:52 AM.


  2. #17
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    Re: Ss

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    The Rams have addressed the OL, DL, and WR through past drafts and free agency. The Safety position has been neglected and is one of most important position on the D side.
    That seems like an exaggeration. Chavous and Johnson were both recent free agent safety signings, and we've drafted as many safeties in the last three years as we have offensive tackles. In fact we've drafted more safeties in that span than defensive ends, though that also evens out if you count our spending a fifth round pick on James Hall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    The Rams need to upgrade this position.........
    And I never said they didn't. The argument I was responding to was whether or not you spend a second round pick on either Bigby as an RFA or another strong safety when you're likely going to have very good value at the top of round two at OT and WR if not DE as well. I haven't seen enough of Bigby to feel good about valuing him there, nor do I think there's going to be a safety at the top of round two worth taking.

    But addressing it in the mid rounds, between three and five, would probably be a very smart idea. Personally I would love to see the Rams take a guy like Boston College's Jamie Silva in the fourth or fifth round. That kid is just a very impressive player when he's on the field.
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  3. #18
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    Re: Ss

    Quote Originally Posted by chiguy View Post
    Not that I don't agree that we need an upgrade, but we have drafted at least four players recently who did or were capable of playing safety: Carter, Atogwe, Bartell, and Alston.
    Alston and Bartell bit of a stretch...

    Atogwe and Carter are the only players drafted for satety in the last few years.

  4. #19
    PHAT-MONEY Guest

    Re: Ss

    Plus jerome Carter is known as a big hitter, plus he also looks mean on madden. just saying..

  5. #20
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    Re: Ss

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    That seems like an exaggeration. Chavous and Johnson were both recent free agent safety signings, and we've drafted as many safeties in the last three years as we have offensive tackles. In fact we've drafted more safeties in that span than defensive ends, though that also evens out if you count our spending a fifth round pick on James Hall.



    And I never said they didn't. The argument I was responding to was whether or not you spend a second round pick on either Bigby as an RFA or another strong safety when you're likely going to have very good value at the top of round two at OT and WR if not DE as well. I haven't seen enough of Bigby to feel good about valuing him there, nor do I think there's going to be a safety at the top of round two worth taking.

    But addressing it in the mid rounds, between three and five, would probably be a very smart idea. Personally I would love to see the Rams take a guy like Boston College's Jamie Silva in the fourth or fifth round. That kid is just a very impressive player when he's on the field.
    Johnson was added for special teams and to add some depth......

    Chavios has been on the team for 3 years so I do not consider it a recent free agent not in todays free agency market......

    Have the Rams drafted or picked up a free agent in the last couple of years that could challenge for a starting position at either safety position.

    Go Rams

  6. #21
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    Re: Ss

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Johnson was added for special teams and to add some depth......
    Your claim was that the position had been neglected. Signing a player like Johnson, even if it's for depth, shows a team is not neglecting the position. You add depth not only for special teams but so you have talent to fill in in case of injuries. Johnson ended up starting a game for us because of those injuries. If we had truly neglected the position, we probably would have been counting on a street free agent or someone shifting over to fill that spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Chavios has been on the team for 3 years so I do not consider it a recent free agent not in todays free agency market......
    Despite playing two seasons of football for us, Chavous joined the Rams in March '06, which means he hasn't even spent two full years with this organization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Have the Rams drafted or picked up a free agent in the last couple of years that could challenge for a starting position at either safety position.
    They haven't drafted or picked up a free agent in the last couple of years that could challenge for a starting position at OT either, but you claim that area has been addressed.

    Of course you'll likely respond by pointing to Alex Barron, but if you don't consider the March 2006 signing of Corey Chavous to be recent enough, then I have a hard time believing the April 2005 drafting of Barron should count either.
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  7. #22
    PHAT-MONEY Guest

    Re: Ss

    jerome carter could play SS i guess, but i wouldnt bank on it

  8. #23
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    Re: Ss

    I was starting to think at the end of 2006 Jerome Carter could be the starting SS if it wasn't for injury i don't think we would be asking this question right now we would probably be looking or a guy to challenge him. He ended 2006 on an excellent note. I'm pretty sure he is a big hitter great size and could be a nice compliment to OJ with some seasoning.

    Any other thoughts on this guys?

  9. #24
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    Re: Ss

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Your claim was that the position had been neglected. Signing a player like Johnson, even if it's for depth, shows a team is not neglecting the position. You add depth not only for special teams but so you have talent to fill in in case of injuries. Johnson ended up starting a game for us because of those injuries. If we had truly neglected the position, we probably would have been counting on a street free agent or someone shifting over to fill that spot.

    The Rams need 2 quality starters at the position not a special teams back up and a has been.....

    Despite playing two seasons of football for us, Chavous joined the Rams in March '06, which means he hasn't even spent two full years with this organization.

    I am still waiting to see the benefits of having Chavous on this team.....

    They haven't drafted or picked up a free agent in the last couple of years that could challenge for a starting position at OT either, but you claim that area has been addressed.

    Of course you'll likely respond by pointing to Alex Barron, but if you don't consider the March 2006 signing of Corey Chavous to be recent enough, then I have a hard time believing the April 2005 drafting of Barron should count either.
    I guess a 1st round pick for that position versus a washed up safety is comparing apples to apples.

  10. #25
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    Re: Ss

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    The Rams need 2 quality starters at the position not a special teams back up and a has been.....
    Teams need depth. It's a fact of life, one that should be obvious to any Rams fan that's been paying attention to all of our injuries this season. Signing depth for a position means you're addressing needs at that position.

    Again, your claim was that the position had been neglected. We've made two multi-year free agent signings at strong safety in the last two spring offseasons, acquiring a starter and a top back-up player even though we already had a back-up.

    That's not neglect, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    I am still waiting to see the benefits of having Chavous on this team.....
    No one was pretending in 2006 when we signed him that Chavous was an all-star, but he's an adequate starter on a team that needed to replace a regressing Adam Archuleta. Furthermore, the benefit of having Chavous on this team is that you aren't forced to start Jerome Carter who isn't ready to be a full time player in the NFL. As I recall, there weren't exactly a lot of stud free agents available for us to sign in '06 - the best name I can remember is Chris Hope, who was a free safety in Pittsburgh.

    People like to knock Chavous and rightfully so when he misses an easy tackle or blows coverage, but I've seen him make his share of plays here. He accumulated three and a half sacks last season, a career high. In 2006 he matched career highs in tackles and passes defensed. And what many people don't consider is how an intellectual player like Chavous can have an affect on a younger player like Atogwe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    I guess a 1st round pick for that position versus a washed up safety is comparing apples to apples.
    According to your logic, neither are recent acquisitions, so they shouldn't even factor into this discussion, really.
    Last edited by Nick; -01-24-2008 at 03:23 AM.
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  11. #26
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    Re: Ss

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Teams need depth. It's a fact of life, one that should be obvious to any Rams fan that's been paying attention to all of our injuries this season. Signing depth for a position means you're addressing needs at that position.

    Again, your claim was that the position had been neglected. We've made two multi-year free agent signings at strong safety in the last two spring offseasons, acquiring a starter and a top back-up player even though we already had a back-up.

    That's not neglect, sorry.



    No one was pretending in 2006 when we signed him that Chavous was an all-star, but he's an adequate starter on a team that needed to replace a regressing Adam Archuleta. Furthermore, the benefit of having Chavous on this team is that you aren't forced to start Jerome Carter who isn't ready to be a full time player in the NFL. As I recall, there weren't exactly a lot of stud free agents available for us to sign in '06 - the best name I can remember is Chris Hope, who was a free safety in Pittsburgh.

    People like to knock Chavous and rightfully so when he misses an easy tackle or blows coverage, but I've seen him make his share of plays here. He accumulated three and a half sacks last season, a career high. In 2006 he matched career highs in tackles and passes defensed. And what many people don't consider is how an intellectual player like Chavous can have an affect on a younger player like Atogwe.



    According to your logic, neither are recent acquisitions, so they shouldn't even factor into this discussion, really.
    Nick lets go Tic for Tac.... It seems you enjoy this.....

    Just because a team picks up a free agent does not mean the team is committed to addressing the position,. It can be a temporary band-aide until the team is ready to address the position. In the last 3 years the Rams have used a #1 pick on a CB, OT, and DT...... When was the last time the Rams spent a #1 pick on a safety????????

    What was your point regarding depth (Are you saying the Rams had alot of good depth)? Makes little to no sense to me since the Rams are picking #2 overall?????

  12. #27
    PHAT-MONEY Guest

    Re: Ss

    if we had depth and still went 3-13... then i would really be worried.. marc bulger himself said that the rams were not a really deep team.

  13. #28
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    Re: Ss

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Nick lets go Tic for Tac.... It seems you enjoy this.....
    That's funny, because you're responding as much as I am to this discussion.

    In fact, I agreed with you earlier in post #17 by saying the Rams should look to upgrading the position, just not in round two when there will be better value for players at OT, DE, and WR. I even suggested a mid-round prospect that I thought would be a great addition at safety.

    But instead of respond to any of that, you continued to try and nuance the debate about whether we've adequately addressed the position already, while downplaying the free agent signings in Chavous and Johnson.

    So with that under consideration, it's pretty clear to me which of us is really enjoying this line of debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Just because a team picks up a free agent does not mean the team is committed to addressing the position,.
    It does mean, however, that they aren't neglecting the position which is what you claimed the team has done.

    We've added two players to the strong safety position in the last two years - one of them is a starter and one is a top back-up. Those are the facts, and IMO, that does not constitute neglect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    In the last 3 years the Rams have used a #1 pick on a CB, OT, and DT...... When was the last time the Rams spent a #1 pick on a safety????????
    The last time the Rams spent a first round pick on a safety was 2001, which is more recent then the last time they've spent one on a WR or DE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    What was your point regarding depth (Are you saying the Rams had alot of good depth)?
    Overall, no. At strong safety, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Makes little to no sense to me since the Rams are picking #2 overall?????
    But we're not picking #2 overall because of a lack of depth at safety.

    We're picking #2 overall because of a lack of depth along the offensive line - specifically at offensive tackle - where our unit was decimated by injuries and we had to pick guys off the street to play.

    I would contend we're also picking #2 overall because of our lack of depth at defensive end, where we lack much of a rotation behind our two 30+ year old ends, neither of whom could rush the passer that well this season to help our secondary in coverage.

    Which is why I said four posts ago that those positions are arguably bigger needs than strong safety and, IMO, would be better uses of our early picks.

    This is the last I'll say on this topic in this thread. We both agree that safety is an area that needs to be upgraded, but I see little point in continuing to debate whether two free agents signed to multi-year deals within the last two years constitutes a team trying to address the position. I think it does, you disagree. Again, we ultimately both agree that additional upgrades need to be made. I think the discussion can be left at that.
    Last edited by Nick; -01-24-2008 at 04:33 PM.
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  14. #29
    keith m. klink Guest

    Re: Ss

    i would like a hard hitter in the second round this year , but also , i want too see JEROME CARTER get a fair shot and a good look this year . we have put a lot of time and coaching in him. i want a return on that . if the coaches feel he could be the guy behind CHAVOUS, than a safety might not be at such a high need as a #2 or #3 as first thought . but a pick like BARRETT or CRAIG STELTZ in the 3rd or 4th would be o.k. with me .

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