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    St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    St. Louis Rams get a look at Jimmy Clausen
    BY BILL COATS
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    04/10/2010

    The Rams' pre-draft audition of quarterback prospects continued — and apparently ended — Friday with Jimmy Clausen's pro day at Notre Dame's indoor practice facility in South Bend, Ind. General manager Billy Devaney came away impressed with Clausen, who completed 57 of 59 passes during the 30-minute workout.

    "Clausen looked outstanding," Devaney said. "He threw the ball with velocity, he was extremely accurate, he made all the throws. He's a natural passer; he showed that."

    Clausen, who had been recovering from surgery to repair torn tendons in his right big toe, hadn't performed for NFL talent scouts until Friday. Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo also was in attendance, as was offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur and quarterbacks coach Dick Curl.

    "I was just excited to be able to come out and throw the ball around," Clausen said. "I got a little tired while I was out there, but I think it went really well. It was good to be able to throw with my legs and not just my arm."

    Previously, the Rams attended Sam Bradford's pro day March 29 at Oklahoma and worked out Texas' Colt McCoy privately on Thursday in Austin. Devaney had strong praise for their showings, too.

    Coming off a 1-15 season, the Rams have the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, which will kick off with first-round selections April 22 in New York. The second and third rounds will be held April 23, with the final four rounds to be completed April 24.

    It's been widely speculated that the Rams will select a quarterback, and Bradford appears to be a strong front-runner.

    The release of Marc Bulger, the team's starting quarterback for most of the past eight seasons, further fueled conjecture that the Rams will opt for a quarterback in the first round.

    Devaney emphasized that no decision has been reached yet, although he said "we're done" looking at quarterbacks. He declined to compare the three prospects.

    "The evaluation process now will continue next week when we get together with the scouts and coaches," Devaney added. "We'll get everybody's input and see where we are at that point."


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    Azul e Oro is online now Registered User
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    While bearing in mind our Rambrother Nick's caveat about reading too much into a good pro day, I think it's worth noting that JC looked like he was built like the proverbial brick poophouse & maintained his weight while having his foot in a boot for 2 months. Says something to me about his work ethic & commitment, never mind his natural athleticism. Watching that Gruden film session with Bradford, was I the only one who was having Bulger flashbacks as Sam's relatively slender body writhed on the turf & how awkward/bad he looked at protecting his body against contact ?

    Sorry to disappoint AV but this is the feedback from teammates on the Clausen character issue that came out of his pro day:

    (excerpted from the Sporting News)

    "His performance in those last nine games of 2009—and still racking up All-American-worthy stats with 3,722 yards, 28 TD passes, four interceptions—attracted scouts from coast to coast. Playing through the pain also earned him respect from teammates, witnesses to his on- and off-field development over his three years at Notre Dame.


    "It's frustrating," ex-Irish receiver Golden Tate said Friday of the Clausen criticism. "This is a guy who's grown into one of my best friends. He's a competitor. He's passionate about the game. He plays with emotion, and that's what the league needs."


    Others who've shared a locker room with Clausen echo many of Tate's thoughts. Running back James Aldridge cites an evolution in his quarterback, a diva-to-leader transition that will benefit the quarterback as much as any of the 59 throws in his workout Friday.


    Sure, the players knew about the Hummer limo, which carried Clausen to the College Football HOF in 2006 to make a verbal commitment to coach Charlie Weis and the Irish. They knew about his pedigree (brothers Casey and Rick played quarterback at Tennessee) and his training (guru Steve Clarkson has worked with Clausen since he was 10 years old). They worried the kid from California would bring an ego the size of his home state. In the beginning, that wasn't far from the truth.


    "He was younger," Aldridge said. "As a freshman, he had to come in here and acclimate to how we do things and not always being 'The Guy.' With what he's been through, you can't help but think of him as a leader."


    He played through bone spurs in his throwing elbow, which required surgery after the '07 season. He played behind an offensive line that led Division I-A in sacks allowed. His play and mettle over his first two years prompted teammates to elect him captain in '09. Then came the troublesome toe.








    Weis and Notre Dame staffers spun the injury as turf toe, never revealing the torn ligament an MRI revealed. Clausen said he didn't know the injury's severity as he played but knew the toe throbbed each time his weight shifted. Few would have faulted him sitting out, seeking a second opinion and having season-ending surgery in October.


    Instead, he played, emerging as a fringe Heisman candidate for a .500 team with a virtually lame-duck coach. Win the game or not, he won the respect of the other guys in the locker room.
    Clausen lacks Colt's flair or Tim Tebow's speeches. He matches up, though, in terms of commanding a team.


    Clausen's attitude, a question mark when he rode into Notre Dame, has become an asset as he rolls out. Spagnuolo, Nix and the cluster of NFL scouts saw it Friday. Soon, Clausen's old teammates say, one team will benefit from his skills and his character."


    Jeez, I hate it when kids learn from their mistakes & grow into adults during college, don't you?
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -04-11-2010 at 01:15 PM.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Hmm bone spurs in 07' and torn toe ligaments this past year. He's racking up an injury history himself. Being shorter and lighter than Bradford, perhaps we should question his durability as well?

    Just sayin'


    And Azul, not sure your point here. We've all known, or at least i did, that Clausen's teammates had no problem with him. I for one didn't care about his prior attitude because I already heard the sntiment that the guy has grown up since then. Im sure Bradford can learn how to slide, not a rocket science and the guy isn't stupid..

    Bradford is just the better QB in my eyes and pretty much everyone else's. Clausen's only edge was playing in a pro style offense which i deema minor edge over Bradford at best. Bradford took plenty of snaps from under center and its proven its not a problem. The guy knows how to read coverages and was a beast on the white board. His arm is stronger and his accuracy is better. He is heavier and taller. I can't see how you favor Clausen over Bradford at this point. I think Clausen can be succesful but I think Bradford is simply the better choice..
    Last edited by Bralidore(RAMMODE); -04-11-2010 at 01:32 PM.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    I don't doubt Clausen's productivity in the NFL. The kid has good accuracy, work ethic, decent arm strength, good mobility, he plays with intensity, and he makes good reads.

    But Bradford does everything that Clausen does but better IMO.

    If Bradford never existed, Clausen would be the top QB in this draft, and I wouldn't mind drafting him with the number 1 pick.

    But since Bradford IS here, I would go with Bradford.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    I think Clausen has the potential to be a good NFL QB if he keeps his head screwed on straight, but his off-field behavior continues to disturb me. Like Ryan Leaf, he's often described as a complete jerk and a magnet for trouble. Just four months ago, after teammates and coaches talked up his maturity and judgement, he gets into a well publicized bar fight. Maybe it wasn't his fault, maybe it was an isolated inscident, but it still raises a red flag. Just sayin'......

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    Azul e Oro is online now Registered User
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Hmm bone spurs in 07' and torn toe ligaments this past year. He's racking up an injury history himself. Being shorter and lighter than Bradford, perhaps we should question his durability as well?

    Just sayin'


    And Azul, not sure your point here. We've all known, or at least i did, that Clausen's teammates had no problem with him. I for one didn't care about his prior attitude because I already heard the sntiment that the guy has grown up since then. Im sure Bradford can learn how to slide, not a rocket science and the guy isn't stupid..

    Bradford is just the better QB in my eyes and pretty much everyone else's. Clausen's only edge was playing in a pro style offense which i deema minor edge over Bradford at best. Bradford took plenty of snaps from under center and its proven its not a problem. The guy knows how to read coverages and was a beast on the white board. His arm is stronger and his accuracy is better. He is heavier and taller. I can't see how you favor Clausen over Bradford at this point. I think Clausen can be succesful but I think Bradford is simply the better choice..
    I think it's closer between the two than the media & flow of conversation on this board lately would make some people think. And the intangibles stuff seems to have been a big part of that, esp from AV.

    I like Bradford's height,too, and was very pleased to hear that he had put on some beef during his own recuperation from injury but he definitely looks to me like the less sturdy of the two. Just an amateur eyeballin' observation; not meant to be THE reason to change The Rams board.(Edit ps: Carriker is taller & heavier than Chris Long. Are you telling me that he is more durable because of it?)

    But I really think you need to be careful about drawing such a definitive conclusion about Bradford's superior accuracy & arm strength or to assume that he can master the survival techniques necessary to play a 16 game season with the big dogs. Can he do it under the duress of an NFL pass rush & with a less accomplished O-line ? And just as you can't teach Suh's superior athleticism/strength, you can't discount how little Clausen's performance suffered in much more difficult circumstances after he got hurt. Bradford played through his early shoulder problem & played well but got hurt again at least partially, if you believe Gruden's analysis,because he didn't throw the ball away.Maybe it isn't rocket science but Sam didn't demonstrate that he had learned that lesson in that instance, anyway, did he? Clausen maintained his ability to stay alive & healthy enough to help his team on the field despite a foot injury that affected mobility as well as his accuracy & velocity.

    For me, one of the stupidest topics on this board last year revolved around folks beeyatching about Bulger sliding half a yard shy of a first down vs, I believe, Detroit. It was EXACTLY the right thing to do with hard-hitting Delmas coming at him with a full head of steam. I think Gruden's advice to Sam is something he's gonna hear a lot for the next couple of years wherever he gets drafted. I hope he isn't on the trainers table for a lot of it.

    Aren't we all tired of Rams who are tantalizingly good when healthy but just seem to have a knack for getting hurt ? I could throw in a list of names but I don't want to develop carpal tunnel by typing that much.

    As to the bone spurs thing- a relatively minor scope surgery that many NFL players get( Favre, Portis) & do pretty well afterwards, I'll see Jimmy's spurs & raise you Sam's torn non-throwing hand ligaments...lol...

    edit ps2: Spags made an interesting comment the other day-don't have the quote handy but the gist was that the toughest part of deciding who would be the best pick at #1 was figuring out who would handle the pressure that comes from that situation & being thrust into the spotlight as an immediate media target. I think that could go either way with Clausen; maybe you're worried that his head would swell again or maybe it would reassure those considering him that he'd learned that lesson already.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -04-11-2010 at 03:30 PM.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I think Clausen has the potential to be a good NFL QB if he keeps his head screwed on straight, but his off-field behavior continues to disturb me. Like Ryan Leaf, he's often described as a complete jerk and a magnet for trouble. Just four months ago, after teammates and coaches talked up his maturity and judgement, he gets into a well publicized bar fight. Maybe it wasn't his fault, maybe it was an isolated inscident, but it still raises a red flag. Just sayin'......
    That's just the kind of tabloid gossip that started all this,imo. Who exactly-and I mean people in a position to actually know, not he said/she said or pundits looking for attention by being controversial- have gone on record as saying JC is a jerk? None that I know of & I've been reading everything I can about him as well as Bradford and others.( Edit ps: For whatever it's worth, I can tell you from personal experience-I served the guy several times when I was a waiter in my teens in So Cal- that Dickerson was an uncouth, humorless ,arrogant a##hole & a lousy tipper, to boot...lol..)

    I wasn't there but sifting through a variety of reports about that so-called bar fight ( is it a fight when you get cold-cocked by a drunk & don't retaliate or are you simply the victim of an assault?), I've concluded that there wasn't much to it. I'd think his girlfriend who was being hassled by said drunk would think he did the stand-up thing by protecting her & his coaches would say the same for his restraint in not fighting back.

    Again, I'm not saying that Clausen isn't a less than thrilling prospect at #1 but, like Nick,I hope the decision will be made based on facts & astute evaluation of the big picture, rather than rumor and unsubstantiated assumptions and pretty workouts or highlight reels. If there was ever a decision that needs to be taken with a clear head & painstaking attention to fact-based detail over all four top candidates' careers, and the realities of what we need to improve this NFL team as it stands now, ASAP & for the long term , it's this one.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -04-11-2010 at 03:26 PM.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Well Azul, im certain your not arguing that extra muscle padding the bones and joints doesn't help, so i wont get into that. Im saying a 6'4 236 guy who can stand in the pocket and see over lineman is more appealing than a 6'2 222 guy who can also barely see over lineman.

    I'd love for you to tell me how Bradford looks less sturdy when he is bigger and thicker?

    I also wasn't saying Bradford IS more durable because of his size im simply saying the extra muscle that he didn't have before damn sure doesn't hurt, eh?

    From the tape it looks like, and im certainly not alone, that Bradford is more accurate and throws the ball with more power and less effort than Clausen. Clausen gets the ball out fairly quickly but it looks like he has to put everything into those deep balls while Bradford kinda flicks it out there with a release that is just as fast. Not a definitive quality but certainly in Brad's favor.

    I also think your vastly overstating the difficulty of sliding down once you see an NFL lineman coming at you with a head of steam, competitive nature will keep you from doing so sometime and i think its simply a testament to Bradfords competitiveness that he was willing to do that extra something to get the first or the touchdown.

    Also not sure how Clausen's situation was much more difficult than Bradfords. Clausen and Bradford were in similar situations this past year as far as offense IMO. Clausen's line sucked arse his first two seasons. This past season it did an average job of protecting him which really helped him be more productive. He had arguably the best duo of receivers in college football this past season in Tate and Floyd which allowed Clausen to lob balls up in the air and hope his talented guys come down with them. I dont blame him for that becaue if it works do it, just saying. Bradford in 08 had something different. While Clausen's line wasa average, Bradford's was great. He had ok receivers and a beast a tight end. All things considered, I'd say their offense balanced themselves out almost.

    Two complete and utterly different injuries on Clausen and Bradford. Bradford injured his throwing shoulder. Then tried to come back too early and landed right on it yet again. Clausen had a toe injury that didn't bother him until he put weight on him. He and Weis thought it was just Turf Toe. I'm sure it hurt but im sure Bradford would have played with it as well. Bradford finished out 08 with torn hand ligaments in his hand, you can't question either's toughness. Ronnie Lott isn't going to play if he can't tackle. How is Bradford going to play if he can't throw?

    Getting injured is a crapshoot and though i certainly agree Bradford should learn to fall better. Clausen took nasty shots as well and could have fallen better at times, its just a crapshoot really.

    Your telling me that you believe that Bradford will take years to learn how to fall correctly? I'm not sure if you think he is a moron or what, but honestly i think you said that to help your Pro-Clausen stance. Bradford suffers his first significant injury in his life and the guy will spend year after year getting injured? Where does this all come from?

    How does Bradford have a knack for getting hurt because of the shoulder? thats not a knack, its a simple injury, that has gotten blown out of proportion. It was half as bad as Brees shoulder and he has come back fine. I guess this just won't die until he plays, same with Brees'.

    Bradford tore some non throwing hand ligaments. Clausen gets bone spurs. Bradford injures his shoulder, then reinjures at coming back to early, gets surgery to speed recovery. Clausen tears ligaments in toe, gets surgery.

    Technically they both suffered two injuries in their time at their respective schools.
    The hand ligaments, Bradford played through. The bone spurs, Clausen played through (i think). Those two cancel each other out in the injury ratio. Bradford tears ligaments in throwing shoulder the following year. Clausen tears ligaments in toe the same year. Bradford's injury id rate as a 8 due to no damage to rotator cuff. Clausen's id rate a 6.

    To call Bradford injury prone when he was suffered two injuries, one that was significant, in 3 years is BS and you'd have to do the same for Clausen who also suffered two injuries in 3 years, albeit Clausen's was less severe, but not by much.

    Then the intangibles. With Clausen, there IS a question whether you admit it or not. A relatively mixed bag of opinions. The non biased guys ive heard like D'marco Farr have called the guy a jerk. However, this was from his early years at ND. Apparently he has changed or w/e. Bradford has been called nothing but a leader, good guy, hard worker, everything you want and there aren't any question marks about him.

    When it comes down to it. Your picking from A) Bradford: Stronger Arm, Better Accuracy, Great Intangibles, Has played under center and made reads but wasn't in a pro style offense, Previously injured shoulder that checks out on all medical evaluations, Ideal measurables. B) Clausen: Fairly Strong Arm, Good Accuracy, Played in pro style offense, questionable intangibles, rehabbing toe surgery, average measurables.

    Since Bradford has taken and passed every medical evaluation known to man and proved that his power and accuracy have not been affected. I'm taking Bradford all day. Not because I like Oklahoma or have a bias towards Notre Dame, becuase i like both teams the same and could care less whether either win or lose. Its because ive watched the tape and studied both situations and skill sets and have decided the Bradford is simply the better prospect.

    All simply opinions.

    And once again, for the record, I do think Clausen has grown up, but why deal with the questions when i can simply pick the guy i think is the better prospect anyway, in Sam Bradford.

    Edit: To add to that, I think its safe to assume that Devaney and Spags aren't enamored over a pro day. That goes against everything they have said earlier and right after the two guy's respoective pro days. Devaney stated that he kned Bradford could throw he just wanted to see if he suffered any ill effects from the injury, and to see the guy's arm strength live. All the por day hype is coming from the fans as usual.

    Im also with you on the Clausen "bar fight". How is it a fight when Clausen gets a shiner from a drunk guy who was apparently pissed off or something because ND lost a game and insulted Clausen's GF or something.
    Last edited by Bralidore(RAMMODE); -04-11-2010 at 04:23 PM.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    I don't doubt Clausen's productivity in the NFL. The kid has good accuracy, work ethic, decent arm strength, good mobility, he plays with intensity, and he makes good reads.

    But Bradford does everything that Clausen does but better IMO.

    If Bradford never existed, Clausen would be the top QB in this draft, and I wouldn't mind drafting him with the number 1 pick.

    But since Bradford IS here, I would go with Bradford.
    -Clausen has better velocity in his throws.
    -Clausen has been under more pressure than Bradford, and became very good throwing on the run.
    -Clausen had to call the blocking reads, which demonstrates experience of reading defenses.
    -And as far as I can tell, Clausen's accuracy is just as good as Bradford's.

    But Bradford may have better character, while Clausen is an unkown. I have to say though, throughout this draft, Clausen has done nothing to warrant him being classified as a head case. And through his senior season, hasn't had any issues I'm aware of. So he might have turned a corner. I guess that's just up to the teams. If the Rams don't see any red flag in his interviews and background checks, I think Clausen could be our guy.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    Sorry to disappoint AV but this is the feedback from teammates on the Clausen character issue that came out of his pro day:
    Why would you think that would disappoint me? I do have some concerns about Clausen's personality, which I see as brash, but my primary criticism of him is that a lot of his big plays from last year came in situations in which he threw the ball off his back foot and one of his receivers made a play on the ball. Unless your name is Dan Marino, John Elway or Brett Favre, that usually does not work in the NFL.

    Despite this criticism, Clausen is still my No. 2 QB in the draft, and my No. 17 overall prospect. If the Rams were to pass on Bradford and then (either at pick #33 or late in the first round following a trade) have the opportunity to get Clausen after taking Suh or G.McCoy, I'd have no problem with that.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by The Optimistic Lamb View Post
    And as far as I can tell, Clausen's accuracy is just as good as Bradford's.
    All I can say about that is... look again. Its not even close.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    "Clausen looked outstanding," Devaney said. "He threw the ball with velocity, he was extremely accurate, he made all the throws. He's a natural passer; he showed that."
    As with McCoy, exactly what you'd expect them to say.


    Devaney emphasized that no decision has been reached yet, although he said "we're done" looking at quarterbacks. He declined to compare the three prospects.
    Thus marking a sad day for the Tim Tebow, Tony Pike, Dan LeFevour, etc etc fans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Clausen's only edge was playing in a pro style offense which i deema minor edge over Bradford at best. Bradford took plenty of snaps from under center and its proven its not a problem.
    Clausen's time in a pro-style offense is not a "minor edge over Bradford at best." It's a legitimate advantage. You can still like Bradford and admit that. There's no reason to try and downplay positives of other prospects to try and protect your guy. You can be a fan of someone and still be objective, and objectively, Clausen's experience in a pro-style offense is an advantage over Bradford's time in OU's spread.

    Also, I really don't think the major concern about Bradford's time in the spread offense is whether or not he'll be able to physically handle a snap from center. Rather, I think the concerns, to name a few, include (1) how well he's going to be able to make pre-snap reads without having the coaches on the sideline communicate them to him as he looks over for their adjustments, (2) how well he'll be able to read adjusting defensive coverages while dropping back in three, five, and seven step drops, and (3) how well and fluidly he'll go through multiple progressions while making those varied dropbacks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    That's just the kind of tabloid gossip that started all this,imo. Who exactly-and I mean people in a position to actually know, not he said/she said or pundits looking for attention by being controversial- have gone on record as saying JC is a jerk? None that I know of & I've been reading everything I can about him as well as Bradford and others.
    Two things.

    1) Holmgren may have alluded to something when he said of Clausen: "I wish I liked him more. You know how you have a type of player that you like? It's not scientific. People like him a lot. He'll go high. But it would be hard for me [to take him]."

    2) Per Rotoworld, Todd McShay said in mid-March that "at least 10 teams have expressed concerns about QB Jimmy Clausen's leadership and maturity." Though McShay has not been a Clausen fan by any stretch, I don't see any reason why he'd completely fabricate something like this. I think the more legitimate question would be whether or not this is misinformation or legitimate concerns.

    Probably not going to be the smoking gun you're looking for, but it would be pretty shocking if an NFL GM or personnel man actually came out and called any prospect a jerk, too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Two complete and utterly different injuries on Clausen and Bradford. Bradford injured his throwing shoulder. Then tried to come back too early and landed right on it yet again. Clausen had a toe injury that didn't bother him until he put weight on him. He and Weis thought it was just Turf Toe. I'm sure it hurt but im sure Bradford would have played with it as well. Bradford finished out 08 with torn hand ligaments in his hand, you can't question either's toughness. Ronnie Lott isn't going to play if he can't tackle. How is Bradford going to play if he can't throw?
    Bradford did not try to come back too early.

    According to an AP report on September 7th, Bradford's sprain was not expected to require surgery and he was expected to play again in two to four weeks. During the fourth week of that projection, Bradford practiced with the team but didn't play against Miami on October 3rd because he still reported soreness in the shoulder.

    The following week, now week five and beyond the projected 2-4 week recovery time, Bradford practiced and started against Baylor. He threw 49 passes in that game and said, "I felt like my arm responded great, and I felt good out there." He then injured the shoulder again the following week, six weeks from the original injury and two weeks outside of the projected recovery time, against Texas.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Technically they both suffered two injuries in their time at their respective schools.
    Nope, Bradford suffered a concussion severe enough for him to sit out the remainder of a game in his redshirt freshman year. Three injuries that are beyond typical wear-and-tear in less than three full seasons of play.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    To call Bradford injury prone when he was suffered two injuries, one that was significant, in 3 years is BS and you'd have to do the same for Clausen who also suffered two injuries in 3 years, albeit Clausen's was less severe, but not by much.
    I don't find this argument very convincing or logical. And if you go through my post history, it's not as if I'm a huge fan of Clausen. I don't want the Rams to draft him first overall, and prefer Bradford to Jimmy.

    But Clausen played more games behind poorer protection (to give you an idea, he was sacked over three times as much as Bradford) and sustained not only fewer injuries (two for Clausen and three for Sam, when you count the concussion you left out) but less serious injuries as well (Clausen's season wasn't shut down because of his surgery; he was able to wait until after the year).

    I really don't see how there's any comparison.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Optimistic Lamb View Post
    -Clausen has better velocity in his throws.
    -Clausen has been under more pressure than Bradford, and became very good throwing on the run.
    -Clausen had to call the blocking reads, which demonstrates experience of reading defenses.
    -And as far as I can tell, Clausen's accuracy is just as good as Bradford's.
    Regarding the first bolded statement, I think their arm strength is fairly close to one another, but if you watch Clausen throw on film, he has a very elongated and deliberate throwing motion. It looks like he has to really wing the thing in order to put any heat on it. He gets the velocity, but it appears to be a bit of a process or struggle to do so.

    Regarding the second bolded statement, Clausen's accuracy (IMO) is not just as good as Bradford's. Not from the games I've watched, and like Av, I don't think it's particularly close.
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    All I can say about that is... look again. Its not even close.
    Why? What are you looking at?

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    That's just the kind of tabloid gossip that started all this,imo. Who exactly-and I mean people in a position to actually know, not he said/she said or pundits looking for attention by being controversial- have gone on record as saying JC is a jerk? None that I know of & I've been reading everything I can about him as well as Bradford and others
    I always find this statement by Steve Beuerlein to be an interesting indication of how many perceive Clausen:

    Former Notre Dame quarterback and CBS analyst Steve Beuerlein basically posed that question in some critical comments to the Chicago Tribune in December. Beuerlein told the newspaper, "When you're meeting a Notre Dame quarterback, you expect to walk away and say, 'Man, that guy is sharp. He's got it going on.' You can just sense something. Without getting into it, those are the things, the few times I've talked to him, I haven't come away thinking."

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Well Azul, im certain your not arguing that extra muscle padding the bones and joints doesn't help, so i wont get into that. Im saying a 6'4 236 guy who can stand in the pocket and see over lineman is more appealing than a 6'2 222 guy who can also barely see over lineman.

    I'd love for you to tell me how Bradford looks less sturdy when he is bigger and thicker?

    I also wasn't saying Bradford IS more durable because of his size im simply saying the extra muscle that he didn't have before damn sure doesn't hurt, eh?

    From the tape it looks like, and im certainly not alone, that Bradford is more accurate and throws the ball with more power and less effort than Clausen. Clausen gets the ball out fairly quickly but it looks like he has to put everything into those deep balls while Bradford kinda flicks it out there with a release that is just as fast. Not a definitive quality but certainly in Brad's favor.

    I also think your vastly overstating the difficulty of sliding down once you see an NFL lineman coming at you with a head of steam, competitive nature will keep you from doing so sometime and i think its simply a testament to Bradfords competitiveness that he was willing to do that extra something to get the first or the touchdown.

    Also not sure how Clausen's situation was much more difficult than Bradfords. Clausen and Bradford were in similar situations this past year as far as offense IMO. Clausen's line sucked arse his first two seasons. This past season it did an average job of protecting him which really helped him be more productive. He had arguably the best duo of receivers in college football this past season in Tate and Floyd which allowed Clausen to lob balls up in the air and hope his talented guys come down with them. I dont blame him for that becaue if it works do it, just saying. Bradford in 08 had something different. While Clausen's line wasa average, Bradford's was great. He had ok receivers and a beast a tight end. All things considered, I'd say their offense balanced themselves out almost.

    Two complete and utterly different injuries on Clausen and Bradford. Bradford injured his throwing shoulder. Then tried to come back too early and landed right on it yet again. Clausen had a toe injury that didn't bother him until he put weight on him. He and Weis thought it was just Turf Toe. I'm sure it hurt but im sure Bradford would have played with it as well. Bradford finished out 08 with torn hand ligaments in his hand, you can't question either's toughness. Ronnie Lott isn't going to play if he can't tackle. How is Bradford going to play if he can't throw?

    Getting injured is a crapshoot and though i certainly agree Bradford should learn to fall better. Clausen took nasty shots as well and could have fallen better at times, its just a crapshoot really.

    Your telling me that you believe that Bradford will take years to learn how to fall correctly? I'm not sure if you think he is a moron or what, but honestly i think you said that to help your Pro-Clausen stance. Bradford suffers his first significant injury in his life and the guy will spend year after year getting injured? Where does this all come from?

    How does Bradford have a knack for getting hurt because of the shoulder? thats not a knack, its a simple injury, that has gotten blown out of proportion. It was half as bad as Brees shoulder and he has come back fine. I guess this just won't die until he plays, same with Brees'.

    Bradford tore some non throwing hand ligaments. Clausen gets bone spurs. Bradford injures his shoulder, then reinjures at coming back to early, gets surgery to speed recovery. Clausen tears ligaments in toe, gets surgery.

    Technically they both suffered two injuries in their time at their respective schools.
    The hand ligaments, Bradford played through. The bone spurs, Clausen played through (i think). Those two cancel each other out in the injury ratio. Bradford tears ligaments in throwing shoulder the following year. Clausen tears ligaments in toe the same year. Bradford's injury id rate as a 8 due to no damage to rotator cuff. Clausen's id rate a 6.

    To call Bradford injury prone when he was suffered two injuries, one that was significant, in 3 years is BS and you'd have to do the same for Clausen who also suffered two injuries in 3 years, albeit Clausen's was less severe, but not by much.

    Then the intangibles. With Clausen, there IS a question whether you admit it or not. A relatively mixed bag of opinions. The non biased guys ive heard like D'marco Farr have called the guy a jerk. However, this was from his early years at ND. Apparently he has changed or w/e. Bradford has been called nothing but a leader, good guy, hard worker, everything you want and there aren't any question marks about him.

    When it comes down to it. Your picking from A) Bradford: Stronger Arm, Better Accuracy, Great Intangibles, Has played under center and made reads but wasn't in a pro style offense, Previously injured shoulder that checks out on all medical evaluations, Ideal measurables. B) Clausen: Fairly Strong Arm, Good Accuracy, Played in pro style offense, questionable intangibles, rehabbing toe surgery, average measurables.

    Since Bradford has taken and passed every medical evaluation known to man and proved that his power and accuracy have not been affected. I'm taking Bradford all day. Not because I like Oklahoma or have a bias towards Notre Dame, becuase i like both teams the same and could care less whether either win or lose. Its because ive watched the tape and studied both situations and skill sets and have decided the Bradford is simply the better prospect.

    All simply opinions.

    And once again, for the record, I do think Clausen has grown up, but why deal with the questions when i can simply pick the guy i think is the better prospect anyway, in Sam Bradford.

    Edit: To add to that, I think its safe to assume that Devaney and Spags aren't enamored over a pro day. That goes against everything they have said earlier and right after the two guy's respoective pro days. Devaney stated that he kned Bradford could throw he just wanted to see if he suffered any ill effects from the injury, and to see the guy's arm strength live. All the por day hype is coming from the fans as usual.

    Im also with you on the Clausen "bar fight". How is it a fight when Clausen gets a shiner from a drunk guy who was apparently pissed off or something because ND lost a game and insulted Clausen's GF or something.
    You even say yourself that Sam put on 13lbs from his college weight to get to 236 so they played at virtually the same weight when both were injured.

    I like Sam's height, as I said, but I think describing that 2 inch difference as reducing JC to being "barely able to see over" the OL is exaggerated spin, my friend.

    My eyes don't see Sam as "bigger and thicker. Sam looks like the rangy type like Peyton. JC's physique reminds me more of Favre.May mean absolutely nothing; just an observation. Bulger also looks like Peyton & Charlie Frye reminded me of Favre in build. So , as a clue as to durability, it could go either way.

    I think the accuracy thing is open to interpretation & believe my slight preference for Clausen in that regard has to do with the bigger picture. JC had the lesser OL, no doubt, & because of the Weis O & that line, had to make many of his throws more quickly & closer to the LOS & the big uglies, not to mention rollouts & broken plays on the run.

    To me, it's like that great scene from Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid when the mine owner asks The Kid to shoot a coin to prove his gunmanship. The Kid goes to draw from his holster like a gunfighter but the miner ,trying to make it easier, tells him to slowly aim & not draw. The kid misses when standing still but rips the coin repeatedly when he draws. The Kid looks at the stunned mine owner & drily says, shrugging, "I'm better when I move".

    Same as the durability thing, Sam's accuracy hasn't been tested as rigorously as JC's,imo, under NFL-like game condItions.

    We'll never agree on the sliding thing in general & specific to Sam, did you watch that gruden QB Camp segment?! "Worst sliding QB I've ever seen" says the SB-winning NFL coach whose rep is one of a tough blue collar guy's guy kind of coach. I'll take his position on the importance of that survival skill over yours, I'm afraid. I felt the same about Boller who took unnecessary & ill-considered risks sometimes, too. I'm not advocating Everett phantom sack behavior but learning the art of taking a hit ( and giving a hit/ tackling) seems to be a dying art in the NFL,hence so many traumatic injuries.Warner became an absolute master of this in his Cards stint. His QB rating vs the blitz was well over 100 in their SB year & he often got taken down just after releasing the ball but seldom got hurt.

    JC probably got his foot stomped & Bradford gets sacked by a blitzer he could see coming from 7-8 yds away. One is an accident , the other is a poor decision,imo, that he could have & should have avoided. Gruden rips him on it.I think there is no spin in that at all. Does it mean JC never made a bad decision or that Sam can't learn? Absolutely not but I don't think these specific incidents are equally accidental/up to chance. An accident like JC's stomped toe is a crapshoot thing, imo, and Sam's sack is a badly-played poker hand.

    JC's toe "didn't bother him"?! The guy came out of the game & was diagnosed with turf toe which is very painful in itself. Everyone, inc Mayock & JC himself, haS talked about how it changed his throwing motion. The consensus at his pro day that it was fixed & he was throwing again with the proper transfer of weight-eliminating what AV described as "throwing off his back foot" & JC called throwing with just his upper body, not his legs.And let's not forget his insane completion % & low INT rate. It's not like he was Bollering it out there.

    I think Sam will always have the edge on longer throws, if the protection is good;he has great loft & touch, but I see that balanced out for JC by the greater proven mobility & accuracy under duress. Not saying Sam can't do that as well in time but it is not plentiful in his highlight stuff & certainly is of JC's,imo. And it IS a WCO-based offense The Rams are running, right?

    The character thing. Yup, JC's early issues are definitely important but I really LIKE that he developed both as a player & a person under a pretty pressured & glaring spotlight. ND is a polarizing team & brutally fickle fanbase like Philly . Like you, I couldn't care less but that was a serious hotseat to occupy as a freshman.And to win over his teammates & earn the respect of alums like Theismann who may be a homer but he's been frank in his appraisal of JC's rough start & gave him a good endorsement in the end.I think that is food for thought in light of Spags' concerns about how the pick will handle being the #1.

    Sam has that aura of being one of those guys who has been blessed &, although no doubt worked hard for what he's achieved, it has been a fortunate ride to some degree. The home state hero in a well-established QB-friendly system & great personnel around him? Sam had several NFL-caliber guys on his squad as well, esp on the OL & some more will go in with him this year.

    I have just a hint of unease about whether he isn't just a little over-confident in his own quiet way. As a teacher for many years, you learn to read how well you are reaching a kid when you criticize him. Does he ask questions & seem eager to understand what you are saying he should change/learn? Does he get defensive and argue ? Sometimes the toughest ones to reach just stay silent or even seem a bit resistant in their silence. As if to say, I know better than to argue but I think I'm right.

    That last one is a bit of what I sensed from Sam during his Gruden class. He was either very quiet & stared at the video monitor, not Gruden (I'd have been hanging on every word this star coach was telling me, wouldn't you?) or laughed sheepishly when Chucky tried to sugarcoat a rather damning criticism about his lack of sliding/self protection skills by making a bit of a teasing joke of it. That really wasn't a joke, Sam, . Your future & that of your team depends on you being receptive to criticism. And he seemed almost petulant when Gruden asked him if he got in on that cartwheel dive play at the goal line. Was Gruden needling him a bit? I'm sure he knew damn well that Sam didn't score & was making a point. No freakin' doubt in my mind that 99.9% of NFL coaches would have said go out of bounds at the two & have 3 shots for the TD with your body in one piece. Like I said, the guy is a golden boy for whom the things almost always go right & it worries me that he believes himself a bit smarter & more invincible than is good for him. Just a gut feeling but there it is.

    I think Farr is a bit of a reactionary gasbag, to be honest.Maybe it takes one to know one...lol...
    So it's Farr & McShay on one side & Mayock, Tate, Aldridge & a bunch of other pundits on the other ....hmmmm.... I don't know either player personally so, in the absence of any real evidence that he's a jerk or bad teammate or leader on the record by folks in a position to know JC, I'd give it even less credence than my above suspicions about Bradford.

    I think Nick quoted Holmgren, one of the foxiest of NFL decision makers, as saying he wished he liked JC more. Imo, could be a total smokescreen like The Fins guy "letting slip' that they were going defensive with their #1 then taking an OT a week later. And, in any case, it's a far cry from condemning.

    In the end, I have faith in DeSpags & will be fine with any of the big four. It's the total draft crop that I'm really excited to look at & see how they are planning to move forward. And only time will tell.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -04-12-2010 at 07:38 AM.

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