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  1. #16
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I always find this statement by Steve Beuerlein to be an interesting indication of how many perceive Clausen:

    Former Notre Dame quarterback and CBS analyst Steve Beuerlein basically posed that question in some critical comments to the Chicago Tribune in December. Beuerlein told the newspaper, "When you're meeting a Notre Dame quarterback, you expect to walk away and say, 'Man, that guy is sharp. He's got it going on.' You can just sense something. Without getting into it, those are the things, the few times I've talked to him, I haven't come away thinking."
    I think that you might be on to something there. It's not that there's anything wrong with him exactly, it's just not what you would hope it would be. Everybody is trying to catch lightning in a jar, and Jimmy just kind of lacks that wow factor. There's the personality thing, but also that Notre Dame was losing to teams they had no business losing to on his watch. ND lost to Navy for the first time since 1963, and they play each other every year. They didn't win any bowl games of consequence. He was never really in the Heisman picture unlike Tebow, Bradford, and McCoy. Technically, he seems pretty sound, but what is there about him that is inspiring?


  2. #17
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    That last one is a bit of what I sensed from Sam during his Gruden class. He was either very quiet & stared at the video monitor, not Gruden (I'd have been hanging on every word this star coach was telling me, wouldn't you?) or laughed sheepishly when Chucky tried to sugarcoat a rather damning criticism about his lack of sliding/self protection skills by making a bit of a teasing joke of it. That really wasn't a joke, Sam, . Your future & that of your team depends on you being receptive to criticism. And he seemed almost petulant when Gruden asked him if he got in on that cartwheel dive play at the goal line. Was Gruden needling him a bit? I'm sure he knew damn well that Sam didn't score & was making a point. No freakin' doubt in my mind that 99.9% of NFL coaches would have said go out of bounds at the two & have 3 shots for the TD with your body in one piece. Like I said, the guy is a golden boy for whom the things almost always go right & it worries me that he believes himself a bit smarter & more invincible than is good for him. Just a gut feeling but there it is.
    Very interesting observation. I watched the Gruden video as well, and while it's entirely possible Sam had a long day or woke up on the wrong side of the bed, I can see where someone would look at that and get a strange vibe from his interaction with Gruden during the film sessions. I don't know if I'd call it petulance, but it did seem he wasn't particularly interested in hearing criticism about that sack versus Texas. He was more open and interactive with Gruden later when the ex-coach was complimenting his deep throw on the post.

    There is a certain chunk of the fan base who want a quarterback who is fiery, emotional, charismatic. Sam doesn't seem to fit that mold. He's described by NFL Draft Scout as being a "[q]uiet leader by example who doesn't panic but needs to vocally hold teammates more accountable." That Gruden session didn't give me a sense that such an assessment is wrong. While I'm not in the contingent that thinks a QB has to yell and scream to be a good leader, I'd be interested to hear reactions to that video from someone in the "more charisma" chunk.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    So it's Farr & McShay on one side & Mayock, Tate, Aldridge & a bunch of other pundits on the other ....hmmmm.... I don't know either player personally so, in the absence of any real evidence that he's a jerk or bad teammate or leader on the record by folks in a position to know JC, I'd give it even less credence than my above suspicions about Bradford.

    I think Nick quoted Holmgren, one of the foxiest of NFL decision makers, as saying he wished he liked JC more. Imo, could be a total smokescreen like The Fins guy "letting slip' that they were going defensive with their #1 then taking an OT a week later. And, in any case, it's a far cry from condemning.
    I didn't figure that you'd view either of those items as being great pieces of evidence against Clausen. Maybe they aren't. But I think you have to ask how many "folks in a position to know" are going to come out on record and publicly call the guy a jerk. How often does that happen to any player in the league? It's just not that common, and I think if that's what you're looking for, not finding it may be just as much about the rarity in those comments as a whole than anything specific on JC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    I think that you might be on to something there. It's not that there's anything wrong with him exactly, it's just not what you would hope it would be. Everybody is trying to catch lightning in a jar, and Jimmy just kind of lacks that wow factor. There's the personality thing, but also that Notre Dame was losing to teams they had no business losing to on his watch. ND lost to Navy for the first time since 1963, and they play each other every year. They didn't win any bowl games of consequence. He was never really in the Heisman picture unlike Tebow, Bradford, and McCoy. Technically, he seems pretty sound, but what is there about him that is inspiring?
    Careful. If there's any sizable Clausen crowd left, you're going to take heat for blaming him for some of the team's losses when their defense was so bad.

    Of course, what they won't tell you is that, bad defense or not, Jimmy had a chance to win at least 3-4 of those losses had he played better, but he couldn't pull through. He had an open receiver at the end of the USC game and didn't even see him. In the Navy game, down by only a touchdown with 1:34 left, Clausen held onto the ball too long on third down and was sacked, then didn't feel the backside pressure on fourth down and was hit for a safety.

    It's interesting, because many praise Clausen for the number of come-from-behind victories he's been able to achieve. But when you take a closer look at some of the losses Notre Dame suffered this year, you'd think a high first round quarterback prospect would have been able to get a few more when the opportunities were clearly there.
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  3. #18
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    There is a certain chunk of the fan base who want a quarterback who is fiery, emotional, charismatic. Sam doesn't seem to fit that mold. He's described by NFL Draft Scout as being a "[q]uiet leader by example who doesn't panic but needs to vocally hold teammates more accountable." That Gruden session didn't give me a sense that such an assessment is wrong. While I'm not in the contingent that thinks a QB has to yell and scream to be a good leader, I'd be interested to hear reactions to that video from someone in the "more charisma" chunk.

    I seem to remember Bulger being described this way not long after he became the Ram's starting QB.

  4. #19
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Azul, ill be honest. If you favor one guy over another, you'll find ways to pick apart the other's game and put your guy higher. Same thing I've done. like i said, i favor Bradford over Clausen because of what ive seen on tape. Im no homer or anything like that i just like BRadford and what he brings more than Clausen.

    Again i reiterate. How hard do you think it is to learn how to take a hit? The guy really didn't have to learn that in college, but you don't draft a guy simply based on what he's done. With stuff as simple as falling correctly, you assume he can learn that....

    In 08' Bradford looked kind of scrawny yes. When he showed up at the combine i saw a guy who looked thicker than Peyton Manning. I guess that's up to interpretation but Bradford looks stacked and filled out throughout his frame.

    Im not arguing what the two guys played at at injury. Im arguing what they WILL be playing at in the NFL. Clausen could add 10 more pounds, but at his height thats slightly pushing it. Bradford could go up to 240 and still carry it well. And 2 inches is the difference between 6'2 and 6'0. Clausen is fine at 6'2. Would you take him at 6'0?

    Not all Bradford passes were perfect and i think that gets exaggerated alot. He was forced to roll out and scramble on occasion, though not as often. I think he looks fine passing while running and though it says nothing of game time situations. Bradford looked fine doing it at his Pro Day as well. The accuracy is open to interpretation i suppose but ive heard noone besides you and one other who's name escapes me say their accuracy is tied. I don't see it. Bradford's accuracy looks far and away better. On tape and especially at the Pro Days.

    I believe Clausen said himself that he didn't know his toe was as bad as it was until xrays or w/e were taken. When he was forced to put weight on it was when it really hurt. Are you going to tell me Clausen was going to play with torn tendons in his throwing shoulder?

    I think you need to watch that sack Bradford took against Texas again. It was a naked bootleg and unless Bradford was Vick there was nothing he could do. The guy was very fast and had a straight shot at him. Don't see how you can expect a guy like Bradford to somehow get away. Now, could he have landed better? Damn right, he fell on that shoulder yet again. Again however, that can certainly be taught.

    I agree turf toe is painful, to find out it was torn ligaments is even worse. Clausen is tough. His offensive line was not as bad this year as in previous years and it showed in his stats. Clausen's receivers also bailed him out numerous times on lofted balls to the endzone that Tate and Floyd made ridiculous plays on to prevent the interception. Clausen was not in any way a one man show out there.

    I'm not seeing how Clausen has greater mobility. Clausen's mobility has been one of his knocks. If anything there mobility is equal, though honestly I give Bradford the edge. I think Clausen feels the rush a bit better however.

    It is indeed a WCO (i guess). Not sure your point there. Bradford can throw on the run just fine with great accuracy.

    When you say sam had been blessed, i found that funny. He is definetely a great athlete, but thats where the favors end just about. The guy was the third stringer as a freshman. He beat out every other QB to win the starting job and set records in passing as a freshman. He was recruited as a third star recruit. His sophmore year he definetely gained a great supporting cast, but when Sam went down, that team slowly went down with him. JC was tutured in football since the age of 10. He played on a very talented team in high school and they steam rolled competition. His parents were upper class and he always had the best schooling in football. He went to Notre Dame being called the "Lebron James of football". When he went to Notre Dame he was terrible his first year with a bad offensive line. He improved yearly as his line improved. This past year he had two first round receivers to throw to that bailed him out a large amount of times by leaping over corners, and taking 10 yard dump passes to the house. Sam receivers were good, but rarely did they bail him out of passes. He just put the ball where it needed to go and his pretty good receivers and elite tight end did the rest. Sam had to work his tail off to get to where he is. Jimmy had a lot handed it to him and was given every opportunity to succeed. Does that knock his work ethic? Heck no, I think both Clausen and Jimmy are two of the hardest working QBs in the draft. I'm just debunking what you said about Bradford having things ahnded to him because its simply not true whatsoever.

    Seeing as you have never seen Sam Bradford in person, not sure how you think he's silent and doesn't ask questions (if that's what your getting at). Indeed, Sam's teammates coaches etc say the exact opposite. He's an upright cool guy who gets into your face when he needs to and jumps up and down and celebrate when his team amkes a great play. Sam has that "It" factor going for him that commands a huddle and he has a presence when walking into a room.

    I must say, you criticizing Sam because he laughed in agreement with what Gruden had to say is the biggest case of nitpicking ive seen in a while. When im paying attention and listening. Im definetely staring at what the teacher is writing and pointing out instead watching his lips. You overread the hell out of that simple interview my friend. Sam looked very receptive to criticism to me and understood every coverage thrown at him. I laugh when i know i made a mistake and the guy saying i made the mistake says it in a mocking way as well. Gruden said it in a way to generate a giggle or two. Since when do QBs get faulted for mkaing a gutsy attempt to put points on the board? It shows me that Sam simply got caught up in the moment and didn't see the guy coming underneath that pushed him into the air. How in in the name of god does that make Sam a golden boy? If anything that's Clausen showing up to speeches from California riding in hummer limos..lmao

    Your not seriously saying that only Farr and Mayock thought Clausen was a douche bag? Again, this was from Farr's reaction of Clausen his first year. When everyone KNEW, inclduing his teammates, that Clausen was a douche. I acknowledged that I THINK he has matured in his 3 years at ND. Has he truly remains to be seen. Its really no debate that Clausen was an ahole in the beginning and i hardly think Farr was lying....
    Ive read in numerous places that in Clausen's highschool championship game. He loudly proclaimed the other team as losers "Why do we have to play these losers" on the opening coin toss. There are numerous sources and places that question Clausen's character. ONly until recently did Clausen's teammates support the guy. Also don't forget that they are all homers as well. Clausen IS their teammates, i doubt they'd publicly belittle the guy who represents their school. Again however, i THINK the aholeness Clausn previosuly had has died down. Although i know few people who had personality changes in 3 years at the age Clausen was at.

    All in all, in all fairness. In the majority of your post you went against what people flat out said about Clausen and Bradford and switched out to fit your Pro Clausen stance. You switched out all the "Clausen is a jerk" sentiment to what you think about the situation and you haven't even met the guy. You over criticized a simple interview with Bradford and extended little things like Bradford focusing on the video instead of Gruden's Sun tan and basically called it not paying attention...Then he gave a little chuckle when Gruden clearly made a light hearted joke about Sam's sliding and you jumped down his throat acting as if Bradford thought it was all funny and wasn;'t taking it serious. Then when he said he almost got in at the goalline you call him a golden boy who he thinks he is invincible. EH? Where did that come from?

    Like i say if anyone is the golden boy here, its Clausen...(though i think both work hard for what they get)

  5. #20
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Couldn't have said it better Bralidore.




    I think the Gruden Camp video is overanalyzed. People are setting unreal expectations for the way he should act, talk, behave, interact, etc. But, you must understand he's not like us. Everybody is different. Just because he doesn't act like we think WE would have acted in that situation, doesn't make him condescending, or a bit arrogant.


    IMO, I didn't think he did anything wrong. Could he have talked a little bit more? Sure, I guess.

  6. #21
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    From SI. com

    Jimmy Clausen's Friday workout for half the league's franchises was solid but it's unlikely scouts came away from Notre Dame thinking he had stamped himself as a Top 10 pick.
    The scripted workout was run by former NFL offensive coordinator Marc Tresman, now head coach of the Montreal Alouettes, and included more than 50 throws from Clausen. By our count, all but two passes were completed.
    Clausen displayed solid velocity and speed on his short and intermediate throws. The ball quickly arrived to receivers and his passes displayed a lot of pop. For the most part he was accurate. Late in the workout he delivered some nice strikes down the field.
    Yet while most of Clausen's passes were on the mark, the timing of his throws seemed off at times. His pass placement also was nothing out of the ordinary.
    Pass catchers were intermittently extending vertically or reaching backwards to make the grab. On a number of occasions Clausen overshot his downfield targets. This is in stark contrast to the workout turned in by Sam Bradford, when receivers rarely broke stride to make the reception.
    Clausen, coming off a toe injury, displayed only average footwork and quickness rolling outside the pocket then throwing on the move.The overall tempo and pace of the workout seemed to be lacking compared to the display scouts saw in Norman, Okla., on March 29.
    Clausen will now visit a number of franchises around the league as teams prepare for draft day. As the workout ended one could not help but think the Washington Redskins made the proper choice by trading for Donovan McNabb rather than potentially using the fourth pick of the draft to acquire Clausen.



  7. #22
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by harrydog View Post
    I seem to remember Bulger being described this way not long after he became the Ram's starting QB.
    Yes, which is why I'd like to hear from the portion of the fan base that criticized Bulger for not being more vocal or fiery in his demeanor regarding how they perceive Bradford in this manner. All indications are he isn't a big rah-rah guy but is more quiet and another one of those "lead by example" kind of players.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Again i reiterate. How hard do you think it is to learn how to take a hit? The guy really didn't have to learn that in college, but you don't draft a guy simply based on what he's done. With stuff as simple as falling correctly, you assume he can learn that....
    If it's not that hard to learn, then he should have done it after the first sprain in 2009 so he'd be able to protect himself upon his return.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Bradford could go up to 240 and still carry it well.
    Maybe, maybe not. We have no idea how well Bradford will carry this weight during a football season, because he added it during rehab.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    I think you need to watch that sack Bradford took against Texas again. It was a naked bootleg and unless Bradford was Vick there was nothing he could do. The guy was very fast and had a straight shot at him. Don't see how you can expect a guy like Bradford to somehow get away. Now, could he have landed better? Damn right, he fell on that shoulder yet again. Again however, that can certainly be taught.
    There were absolutely things he could do. Heck, Gruden talked about some of them in the film study with Bradford, so we know he had options!

    He doesn't have to Michael Vick to avoid that hit. He saw the guy coming out of the boot while the defender was five yards away, and did nothing. Didn't even throw the ball away to avoid the sack.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Clausen was not in any way a one man show out there.
    And neither was Bradford. While I agree that Bradford has not been "handed" as much as Clausen has, you've really downplayed the amount of talent that Bradford has had to work with in your response.

    Since both Bradford and Clausen have started playing in 2007, Oklahoma has had three times as many offensive players drafted into the NFL than Notre Dame has. The Sooners have sent Phil Loadholt, Juaquin Iglesias, Duke Robinson, Manuel Johnson, Malcolm Kelly, and Allen Patrick to the NFL. Notre Dame has sent only John Carlson and John Sullivan.

    In this year's draft, things even out a bit more in terms of prospects, though Oklahoma's (Trent Williams, Jermaine Gresham) are generally graded higher than Notre Dame's (Golden Tate, Sam Young, Eric Olsen). Both teams also have some offensive talent that will come out in the next year or two as well.

    Point being, both players worked with a talented surrounding cast, and I think there's an argument to be made that Bradford had more/better talent around him during the span of his college career than Clausen did.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    I'm not seeing how Clausen has greater mobility. Clausen's mobility has been one of his knocks. If anything there mobility is equal, though honestly I give Bradford the edge. I think Clausen feels the rush a bit better however.
    Not sure about this. Even Todd McShay and Scout's Inc, who have been down on Clausen, rate his mobility as above average.

    My view of Clausen is that he's very skilled at throwing on the run, and is more of a threat to make a play with his feet than Bradford. The area of concern regarding Clausen and his ability to move have been more about feeling and avoiding pressure within the pocket.

    I don't think you'll find many people or draft reports who agree that Bradford has an edge over Clausen in mobility, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Sam looked very receptive to criticism to me
    I would disagree. He didn't look particularly comfortable or receptive when Gruden was hammering him on the Texas sack. He was sitting back in his chair, chewing on the end of the marker, giving rather curt answers to his questions, always staring ahead.

    I'm not convinced it was a very big deal at all, but I can see where someone would watch that video and come away with a strange vibe, and I don't think that impression means they're nitpicking or overreading. Keep in mind the Rams and every other team that interviews a prospect are going to be watching closely to how they handle themselves in interviews to try and get a sense of that person.
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  8. #23
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    First off, I just want to say this is probably one of the most well articulated discussions/arguements I have ever read on the internet.

    Secondly, I have to agree with many of Nick's points especially the ones regarding Bradford's mobility. One of the most important things to think about is that how often Bradford got sacked vs. how many times it would happen if he is a Ram. If you look back at Bradford film you can see that most every one of his great throws he has about 5 yards of pocket space and no defenders in his face. This is obviously one of the advantages of the spread and a major adjustment he will face in the NFL.

  9. #24
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by timsum1283 View Post
    First off, I just want to say this is probably one of the most well articulated discussions/arguements I have ever read on the internet.

    Secondly, I have to agree with many of Nick's points especially the ones regarding Bradford's mobility. One of the most important things to think about is that how often Bradford got sacked vs. how many times it would happen if he is a Ram. If you look back at Bradford film you can see that most every one of his great throws he has about 5 yards of pocket space and no defenders in his face. This is obviously one of the advantages of the spread and a major adjustment he will face in the NFL.
    Almost every QB faces that same problem. Also, Bradford played quite a bit under center.

  10. #25
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Yes, which is why I'd like to hear from the portion of the fan base that criticized Bulger for not being more vocal or fiery in his demeanor regarding how they perceive Bradford in this manner. All indications are he isn't a big rah-rah guy but is more quiet and another one of those "lead by example" kind of players.
    I heard Sam is a passionate guy that won't scream and yell at you but pulls you to the side once your off the field when necessary. There is Bulger comparisons, but not the same. By all accounts noone but fans had even a problem with Bulger's leadership, and did nothing but use that as fuel to their rage against Bulger and the shortcomings of the team as a whole. Ive really only heard Bulger speak about 10 times in his career. Bradford is always smiling and cracking jokes when i see him in any type of interview. There are comparisons just like there are with Bulger and Manning. By no means doesn Bradford look nonchalant (spellcheck) after making a bad play or throwing a pick. He never looks totally disinterested out there even if he isn't sitting on the bench crying or throwing things at the gatorade cooler after a bad play or a loss. He is however showing emotions after he or his teamates make a good play and runs over and congratulates his guys afterwards. There is Bulger similarities as in he is a chill guy and accurate. But that's about where they end for me. If i had him on a scale it would look like:
    Lead by Example_______l____________Yeller




    If it's not that hard to learn, then he should have done it after the first sprain in 2009 so he'd be able to protect himself upon his return.
    Indeed he should have. Because he didn't learn it in 5 weeks (who even knows if he practiced it) doesn't mean he won't. Not a reason to pass on a guy at all.




    Maybe, maybe not. We have no idea how well Bradford will carry this weight during a football season, because he added it during rehab.
    Can't argue there. I can't see him having any problems carrying it however.




    There were absolutely things he could do. Heck, Gruden talked about some of them in the film study with Bradford, so we know he had options!
    There were definetely things he could do. He could have thrown the ball away, but i think your overestimating how much time Sam had. I played the video 4 times back tp back, after Sam whipped his head around on the bootleg the safety was 2 yards into the backfield, Sam's first read was covered and he had a 1.5 seconds after realizing that to do something with the ball, his only real option was to throw the ball into the ground while fading away or try and stiff arm him. Sam tried to stiff arm him off because he didn't have much time to do anything else and didn't want to bail on the play that easily. When a guy is coming downhill fullspeed and he's just a safety id damn sure would have tried to shrug him off and finishing the paly instead of going straight to the ground like Bulger does. How many quarterbacks are going to escape that Nick, honestly. Could he have thrown it away? Certainly, but a guy isn't going to make the best possible decision on every given play and the only reason this is getting scrutinized so heavily is because he fell on that shoulder and messed it up again. He had 2 secs to do something with the ball. Name one guy who you know is going to get away from that safety on that play.

    He doesn't have to Michael Vick to avoid that hit. He saw the guy coming out of the boot while the defender was five yards away, and did nothing. Didn't even throw the ball away to avoid the sack.
    I just said how you were wrong there. Play the video again. after Sam whips his head around he gets 2 seconds to realize his read is covered and to make a play. He tried to make a play using a stiff arm and failed. Where i fault Sam the most is not curling over to his back to avoid the shoulder slam.




    And neither was Bradford. While I agree that Bradford has not been "handed" as much as Clausen has, you've really downplayed the amount of talent that Bradford has had to work with in your response.
    Not sure how i did that. I said that Sam's line was elite and he had an elite tight end. His receivers were pretty good but were not elite. Clausen had mediocre offensive talent his first two years and it mostly showed in his stats. Clausen had a pretty good line this year with two elite receivers catching his passes. Clausen did not have close to the elite type of tight end Bradford had, but Bradford never had the type of receivers that Clausen had. Look at Clausen highlights on youtube and to see how how better his line was compared to previous years. Very serviceable albeit not Oklahoma's in 2008.

    Since both Bradford and Clausen have started playing in 2007, Oklahoma has had three times as many offensive players drafted into the NFL than Notre Dame has. The Sooners have sent Phil Loadholt, Juaquin Iglesias, Duke Robinson, Manuel Johnson, Malcolm Kelly, and Allen Patrick to the NFL. Notre Dame has sent only John Carlson and John Sullivan.
    Ok

    In this year's draft, things even out a bit more in terms of prospects, though Oklahoma's (Trent Williams, Jermaine Gresham) are generally graded higher than Notre Dame's (Golden Tate, Sam Young, Eric Olsen). Both teams also have some offensive talent that will come out in the next year or two as well.
    Agreed

    Point being, both players worked with a talented surrounding cast, and I think there's an argument to be made that Bradford had more/better talent around him during the span of his college career than Clausen did.
    I also agree. This depends on how you rate positions as well. Overall however, I agree Bradford had more talent in the span of his career than Clausen.




    Not sure about this. Even Todd McShay and Scout's Inc, who have been down on Clausen, rate his mobility as above average.
    New Era Scouting: "Clausen will never be confused for a running QB. Foot speed is well below average. Does possess a good ability to escape the rush and move in the pocket but is not a threat to run for any big gains. Solid at throwing on the run." This IS the only one I've seen of Clausen that says this, and most ive seen says Clausen is basically not a speedster but can escape the rush on occasion, like this one says. I thought earlier when i was reading reports on Clausen that there was multiple criticisms of his mobility. Apparently i misread or something. Not sure how much his toe affected his mobility as well.

    My view of Clausen is that he's very skilled at throwing on the run, and is more of a threat to make a play with his feet than Bradford. The area of concern regarding Clausen and his ability to move have been more about feeling and avoiding pressure within the pocket.
    Not enough tape on Bradford running to make an accurate and fair assesment. Based on the little ive seen, he is a better scrambler than the average pocket passer and has speed to outrun defensive lineman not named Dwight Freeney. I think his passing while running is fine. Not sure how I compare it to Clausens' however.

    I don't think you'll find many people or draft reports who agree that Bradford has an edge over Clausen in mobility, though.
    Noone speaks of Bradford's mobility for whatever reason.


    I would disagree. He didn't look particularly comfortable or receptive when Gruden was hammering him on the Texas sack. He was sitting back in his chair, chewing on the end of the marker, giving rather curt answers to his questions, always staring ahead.
    Again, I've watched the video many times. I truly believe you guys are blowing this up way more than is warranted or fair. I see a guy who is not happy about his performance on the plays and a guy who is concentrating on the plays in question. He says yeah and nods his head in agreement when being addressed. What more do ou want from him in a casual interview? If there were any interview questions about Bradford, why did he get the stamp of approval from every team that interviewed him at the combine? Not sure how many people look happy and smile when he/she is getting criticized on plays. He is nodding his head and agreeing while looking intently at the video when Gruden is speaking. If he spent the whole video arguing with Gruden then you could honestly bring up questions, but this? Talk about nitpicking.

    I'm not convinced it was a very big deal at all, but I can see where someone would watch that video and come away with a strange vibe, and I don't think that impression means they're nitpicking or overreading. Keep in mind the Rams and every other team that interviews a prospect are going to be watching closely to how they handle themselves in interviews to try and get a sense of that person.
    Yep, and Bradford has already interviewed just fine. When a guy starts debating every plays and defending himself that is when i get concerned. Not when a guy agrees with the criticizer and takes it.

    Maybe I'm just too lenient on guys. Looking forward to that Program however.
    Last edited by Bralidore(RAMMODE); -04-12-2010 at 04:15 PM.

  11. #26
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    By all accounts noone but fans had even a problem with Bulger's leadership, and did nothing but use that as fuel to their rage against Bulger and the shortcomings of the team as a whole.
    Yes, which is why I'd love to hear from some of them to see how they feel about adding another quarterback who really isn't a rah-rah fiery kind of guy. Personally I don't have a problem with more reserved leaders, but since this was a big issue for a portion of the fan base, I'd love for some of them to step forward and speak about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Indeed he should have. Because he didn't learn it in 5 weeks (who even knows if he practiced it) doesn't mean he won't. Not a reason to pass on a guy at all.
    Did I miss where someone claimed he'd never learn to do it, and because of that, the Rams should pass on him?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    There were definetely things he could do.
    Agreed! I'm glad you've come around to that line of thinking, since in your previous post, you said, "It was a naked bootleg and unless Bradford was Vick there was nothing he could do."


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    How many quarterbacks are going to escape that Nick, honestly.
    I never said I expected him to escape the defender. I said he didn't have to be Michael Vick to avoid the hit. You can avoid the hit by throwing the ball away, which I believe Bradford had time to do. Jon Gruden agrees with me, so I feel okay about my understanding of that play.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    I just said how you were wrong there. Play the video again. after Sam whips his head around he gets 2 seconds to realize his read is covered and to make a play. He tried to make a play using a stiff arm and failed. Where i fault Sam the most is not curling over to his back to avoid the shoulder slam.
    Fair enough, I apologize for not giving Bradford credit for the world's weakest attempted stiff arm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Not sure how i did that. I said that Sam's line was elite and he had an elite tight end. His receivers were pretty good but were not elite.
    Your second sentence in the paragraph said, "He is definetely a great athlete, but thats where the favors end just about." Well, not really. Give him credit for emerging from the QB battle, sure. But he entered a friendly system with great protection and established weapons to throw to right from the get go.

    You didn't mention Sam's line in the response I was quoting from, only Clausen's. You did credit him with an elite tight end, but said his receivers were good. You also seemed to attach a qualifier to each of those descriptions. He had a great supporting cast as a sophomore, but _______. He had good receivers, but _______. That makes it sound like you're downplaying his situation.

    To start, Sam didn't just gain a great supporting cast in his sophomore year; he already had them as a redshirt freshman. In 2007, his first year as a starter, he already had Juaquin Iglesias, Malcolm Kelly, and Jermaine Gresham to throw to. He had multiple All Big XII linemen in 2007, and his entire line returned for 2008, comprising arguably the best line in all of college football.

    As for the other comments, you admitted he had a great supporting cast but the team declined when Bradford went down. That implies Bradford essentially made the team successful, giving him most of the credit and downplaying his help. You said his receivers were good but rarely had to adjust to his passes since he put the ball where it needed to go. The implication being Bradford was right on the money all the time, so the talent of his receivers didn't really matter. Again, downplaying the talent around him, IMO.

    I agree with you that Clausen was far more the "golden boy" than Bradford was. But I just think in arguing that, you downplayed the kind of situation Sam went into, which was pretty favorable. Clausen may be more the "golden boy," but it can be argued that Bradford really hasn't seen or been tested against the kind of adversity Clausen has.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Not enough tape on Bradford running to make an accurate and fair assesment. Based on the little ive seen, he is a better scrambler than the average pocket passer and has speed to outrun defensive lineman not named Dwight Freeney.
    If you don't feel there's enough film on Bradford running to make an accurate and fair assessment, then you shouldn't attempt to make an assessment.

    But you do, and seem to claim that Bradford can outrun any defensive lineman not named Dwight Freeney (which, to me, means any lineman who can't match Freeney's sub 4.5 forty time). Even though three days ago, you yourself put Bradford in the 4.7 to 4.9 range.

    So which is it? Is Bradford a 4.7 to 4.9 guy? Is he a 4.5 guy and thus able to outrun everyone who isn't Freeney? Or is there not enough film of him running to make an assessment? Maybe people should be talking about Bradford's mobility more, since he seems to have shaved off anywhere from two to fourth tenths of a second from his forty in less than a week and, despite there not being enough film to make an assessment, has shown himself capable of outrunning all but the best NFL defensive linemen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Again, I've watched the video many times. I truly believe you guys are blowing this up way more than is warranted or fair.
    As I said, I'm not convinced it was a very big deal at all, but I can see where someone would watch that video and come away with a strange vibe, because his answers are rather curt. I don't think that impression means they're nitpicking or overreading. People read things in different ways.
    Last edited by Nick; -04-12-2010 at 06:44 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Alright Nick, I have no rebuttles for most of this. The part where I said Bradford could outrun most defensive lineman not named Freeney meant. Your typical speed rushers. If he has a step on a Leonard Little to the edge, by watching one play in particular his leap of faith run, He outran a a safety to the edge and got the corner on him then made it about 10 yards up the sideline. Shows me he at the least has more wheels than a Bulger and a Warner, but presumably less wheels than a Garrard (not going to the extreme with a Vick). I can't give Clausen the edge in speed because that's Sam's real only show of speed I've seen. Clausen will get you a few yards while avoiding the rush, but he isn't going to have any sustained scrambles downfield unless the defense is all downfield in coverage.

    You took my Freeney comparison a bit too literally. I meant he can't outrun your speed rushers that are THAT fast, but i THINK, from what ive seen on that single run, that he could avoid being caught from behind by your typical defensive ends. Just my observation, don't think its unwarranted, albeit premature and based off of a total of about 3 runs of him runnig aorund.

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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Alright Nick, I have no rebuttles for most of this. The part where I said Bradford could outrun most defensive lineman not named Freeney meant. Your typical speed rushers. If he has a step on a Leonard Little to the edge, by watching one play in particular his leap of faith run, He outran a a safety to the edge and got the corner on him then made it about 10 yards up the sideline.
    Except he didn't outrun a safety. He outran Oklahoma State defender #4, which is linebacker Patrick Lavine. To give you an idea of Lavine's speed, he ran a 4.77 forty at OSU's pro day last month. He's not expected to be drafted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    You took my Freeney comparison a bit too literally.
    I simply took the comment as it was written, which seemed just as serious as any other comment you made.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Just my observation, don't think its unwarranted, albeit premature and based off of a total of about 3 runs of him runnig aorund.
    But again, earlier you claimed there's not enough tape on Bradford running to make an accurate and fair assessment. So I'm confused as to how you can follow that statement up by making assessments not only of Bradford's running ability when compared to other QB prospects but also established NFL defensive linemen.
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    Bradford vs. Clausen (Talent around them):

    There is no doubt Bradford had better, all around talent around him than Clausen.

    Let's start with Bradford.

    * He had good receivers throughout his OU career. Never any elite WRs though.

    * He had an elite O-line in 2008. But in 2009, his line had a big drop off of talent.

    * He's had an elite TE throughout his OU career.


    Now, Clausen's turn.

    * Never had a solid line in front of him, but he does have 2 good o-linemen. Eric Olsen and Sam Young.

    * He has had Golden Tate (a first round prospect) and Michael Floyd (a top 7 prospect for next year) as targets. Not to shabby eh? Beats whatever Bradford has/had, that's for sure.

    *Has had Kyle Rudolph as a TE target. Rudolph is considered to be the best TE of his class, and NFL draft scout calls him, "one of the best TE's in college football". As a sophmore no less.



    What this says here is that Bradford has had the better o-line in front of him. There's no argument about that. When you have Duke Robinson, Trent Williams, and Phil Loadholt blocking for you, that's a real treat. BUT, IMO, I think Clausen has the better targets.

  15. #30
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    Re: St. Louis Rams Get A Look At Jimmy Clausen

    This was more and observation that an assesment. Its off the record and probably not accurate, yet there it is, an observation. Bradford looks like a 4.7-4.8 guy. Not fast but not helpless. Given that DT average in the 5.0 flat range and DE typically run in the 4.7-4.8 range. Looks like a fair observation. And its just that, an observation. Take it for what its worth.

    Didn't know 4 was a linebacker. Assumed 4 was a safety number.

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