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Thread: Stephen Hill?

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Here are a couple of things to consider when looking at Hills numbers...some tidbits from CBSsports.com

    1) Hill was mostly asked to block in Georgia Tech's triple-option offense.

    2) Hill was mostly asked to run straight or slant deep go routes. None of his QBs at Georgia Tech were strong armed and, hence, such passes were floated to Hill, many times with a lot of defenders around.

    That leaves the question: what would Hill look like in a downfield passing offense with a strong armed QB? For the answer to that question, we have pre-Draft workouts and speculation. Needless to say, Hill could have shocking upside, even Randy Moss upside. That Olympic caliber long jump in high school shows up on tape. Hill can really go get it on deep passes, and has elite top speed.


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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Yea I must say, Thanks General Counsel

    That perspective adds a lot of information about Hill for me. Good to know about that stuff


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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    The rise of Stephen Hill and Kendall Wright might benefit us because it might cause Michael Floyd to drop down to us at the top of Round 2.

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    The rise of Stephen Hill and Kendall Wright might benefit us because it might cause Michael Floyd to drop down to us at the top of Round 2.
    I don't really see that happening. I think Floyd has cemented himself as the second receiver in this class and a likely Top 20 pick. If he slips, I think it's more because something came up in interviews that teams are wary of.
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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Firstly, I would like to thank the insight of GroundDog (i believe) who saw him play....

    Stephen Hill is tougher to evaluate because of his Georgia Tech offense. I do believe Demetrius Thomas is a different player, but Hill shouldn't be taken lightly.

    Thomas's speed was more in doubt with his ability to run NFL routes, both in and out of the break.

    I think a team that drafts Hill, has to relize that he will be limited as a rookie, and not an instant sensation the way AJ Green can be.

    Hill is much more in the mold of that Randy Moss type. He ran good routes at his pro day and didn't drop any balls.

    I think his hands are good enough for the NFL, but it is his concentration that needs work.

    If you compare him to a guy like Kenny Britt, that is big and fast, the difference is Kenny Britt's attitude is that he is the toughest, strongest guy....and NO NFL Defensive Back will out will him for the ball.....

    This is the one place Hill needs work.....He still looks like he is learning a little bit, and thinks toooo much...

    I personally think he is going in the 22-30 range in the 1st Round, and I had him rated as a TOP 5 WR BEFORE THE COMBINE -- I had him graded at Round 2.....


    He is really hard to evaluate because he is a cross between Randy Moss, Roy Williams, Bernard Berrian, and Kenny Britt......

    Most people wish he stayed one more year in college, but he can't with the horrible QB play that threw duck farts almost every play....

    With all that being said, his truth probably falls between Roy Williams and Randy Moss --- either way that is a solid NFL player for 8 years.....

    I think he will be slower to develop than Floyd and Blackmon but the payoff could be way higher....

    ESPECIALLY IF HE PLAYS ON TURF.....

    So, IN Conclusion.....GroundDog is right in a way, Hill doesn't have elite hands and isn't as naturally gifted as a "football" player.....but is more physically gifted than 99% of the guys on the field, and has room to add strength and fluid enough to become a bigger, faster, stronger Roy Williams....

    Just think of LeBron James....there are 50 guys that are better shooters, more skilled at cutting, and have a better feel for the game...Look at Mike Miller -- a great shooter 6ft 9inches, and he can handle the ball....BUT LeBron James superior ability to run, jump, with speed and strength make Miller look like he is a college level player next to James....


    all and all --- we have great insight here at ClanRam and I love to talk about prospects...

    I am hoping Terrence Tolliver can come through this year and contribute on the Detroit Lions !!!!!!!!!! lol

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I don't really see that happening. I think Floyd has cemented himself as the second receiver in this class and a likely Top 20 pick. If he slips, I think it's more because something came up in interviews that teams are wary of.
    Crazier things have happened in the draft, I wouldn't be surprised if Floyd dropped.

    Teams are all looking for that tall, fast, massive potential receiver now and Hill passes the eyeball test with flying colors.

    Hill might surpass Floyd just because of his upside and potential.

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    With all that being said, his truth probably falls between Roy Williams and Randy Moss
    So he falls somewhere in between a Top Ten bust and a potential Hall of Famer. Thanks for narrowing it down!
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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    So he falls somewhere in between a Top Ten bust and a potential Hall of Famer. Thanks for narrowing it down!
    lol, I just mean "talent wise" -- Roy Williams had 4 or 5 good years, just never reached potential because of his heart wasn't 100% in the game....Roy Williams just didn't seem smart, Hill seems a higher quality guy...


    Here is a question for everyone...Who is the best Randy Moss type WR that wasn't as good....6ft 4in speed, down the field guy, that jumps for balls, high and smooth..

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    lol, I just mean "talent wise" -- Roy Williams had 4 or 5 good years, just never reached potential because of his heart wasn't 100% in the game....Roy Williams just didn't seem smart, Hill seems a higher quality guy...
    Our esteemed GA Tech season ticket holder from the first page seems to disagree.
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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Where in the world do you come to a conclusion that Hill is a "higher quality guy" and that his heart is in it?

    Hill showed absolutely no improvement during his tenure at Tech. He was well known to be lazy and undisciplined. Not a leader in the locker room. Did very little film study. Was not receiptive to criticism or coaching. THis stuff was all over the atlanta papers for two years in addition to being the buzz around the football program and almost a unanimous view of people that follow the tech program closely.

    All Hill is is a guy with tremendous size and god given physical ability. The floating ducks theory on passing is exactly the same as Thomas who was completely uncoverable in college and who made countless plays on those same lousy throws. Keep in mind Hill faced ZERO double coverage in college and still was not a dominating guy. His hands were just terrible. Another year in college would have helped Hill plenty if he was willing to mature and take the game really seriously rather than just relying on his natural gifts.

    Again, tons of upside based on pure physical skills. However, if past history is any indicator of the future, there is simply no evidence to suggest that once Hill gets paid he will all of a sudden start applying himself in practice, in the film room etc to maximize his physical gifts. I think he is a very intriguing middle round prospect, i just for the life of me could not see using a high pick on any player with this type of history regardless of his physical tools. Let someone else be a hero with a guy like this.

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Where in the world do you come to a conclusion that Hill is a "higher quality guy" and that his heart is in it?

    Hill showed absolutely no improvement during his tenure at Tech. He was well known to be lazy and undisciplined. Not a leader in the locker room. Did very little film study. Was not receiptive to criticism or coaching. THis stuff was all over the atlanta papers for two years in addition to being the buzz around the football program and almost a unanimous view of people that follow the tech program closely.

    All Hill is is a guy with tremendous size and god given physical ability. The floating ducks theory on passing is exactly the same as Thomas who was completely uncoverable in college and who made countless plays on those same lousy throws. Keep in mind Hill faced ZERO double coverage in college and still was not a dominating guy. His hands were just terrible. Another year in college would have helped Hill plenty if he was willing to mature and take the game really seriously rather than just relying on his natural gifts.

    Again, tons of upside based on pure physical skills. However, if past history is any indicator of the future, there is simply no evidence to suggest that once Hill gets paid he will all of a sudden start applying himself in practice, in the film room etc to maximize his physical gifts. I think he is a very intriguing middle round prospect, i just for the life of me could not see using a high pick on any player with this type of history regardless of his physical tools. Let someone else be a hero with a guy like this.

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    You are being overly harsh on the kid.....He went to Georgia Tech to stay close to home. He needs a strong armed QB to take advantage of his skill set....

    Thomas was stronger and a different player....You can't get caught him in comparing two totally different players....

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    When you say i am being overly harsh, please cite any evidence of any kind that you have to refute my statements rather than making a conclusory statement that he is a "higher quality guy." What i am telling you is far more than my personal opinion, it is stuff that has been all over the city of atlanta and the georgia tech fan base for a couple of years.

    I also dont see how you can say he is a totally different type of player than thomas. Both are big, strong and physically talented. Both played in run oriented sets (same offense) under the same coach and with the same set of circumstances. Both played with qb's that couldnt throw very well. The off the field stuff is an apples to apples comparison of two guys in the same program. Hill had exactly the same chances to make plays that thomas did. Why do you think they are so different? One worked hard, studied, had a great attitude and developed his skill set. The other did not despite very similar physical tools. One was dominant at the college level, the other was wildly erratic at best.

    Again, you should know that i think very highly of you richtree and you are certainly entitled to your opinion if your view is that he is going to be an excellent pro and that he is worthy of a high pick. I support completely the right for everyone to have their own view. I just dont see where you can dispute the attitude issues, the lack of improvement and state that he is a "higher quality guy" than anyone else (moss included) when so much of the evidence suggests otherwise, without producing some form of evidence to the contrary.

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Thomas is a strength guy, often scouted as a small tight-end body before his draft...

    Hill is a track guy, burner built on length and speed.....

    Hill is a Randy Moss type, and D.Thomas is Sterling Sharpe / Javon Walker type.....

    I don't know him personally or off him in the area -- but I don't see major red flags as women, arrests, drugs., etc....

    I see a guy that stayed close to home and played football...He could have went to Georgia and been in a throwing offense....

    Thomas was 'more' dominant because he was stronger earlier in his college career...I think his speed, length, and raw ability makes him a better player in the long run than Thomas....

    Thomas has Peyton Manning this year, so he should flourish.....I think with the newer rules in the NFL favoring the WR over the CB ...Hill can catch 70 yds a game just on go routes and at least 5-8 touchdowns...

    That would be a 1000 yd WR as a rookie --- So I will take it.....I just don't know enough about the things you say to "downgrade" him at this time....

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    I am not aware of all the detailed info on Hill that has been pointed out here, but I must ask, why if this kid is so good was he not ranked higher pre-combine? To say he is a first rounder post-combine says that teams who need a WR are willing to take a risk and reach for a player with upside potential not ready to play in the pros from day 1. To me first round picks must be ready to go from day 1 in the NFL today.

    It sounds like this kid could be a risk even in the middle rounds based on talent concerns (dropped passes) and emotional maturity. An example was last year when the Chiefs took Jonathan Baldwin despite his attitude issues because he had great hands. Hill sounds like he's a track star who needs to learn the passing game better and grow-up.

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    Re: Stephen Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by mde8352gorams View Post
    I am not aware of all the detailed info on Hill that has been pointed out here, but I must ask, why if this kid is so good was he not ranked higher pre-combine? To say he is a first rounder post-combine says that teams who need a WR are willing to take a risk and reach for a player with upside potential not ready to play in the pros from day 1. To me first round picks must be ready to go from day 1 in the NFL today.

    It sounds like this kid could be a risk even in the middle rounds based on talent concerns (dropped passes) and emotional maturity. An example was last year when the Chiefs took Jonathan Baldwin despite his attitude issues because he had great hands. Hill sounds like he's a track star who needs to learn the passing game better and grow-up.
    Once again, I had him ranked as a top 5 WR "PRE-Combine" -- you can check the old thread here....

    #2 -- I think teams did have him very him, but "journalists" weren't.....Hill combine was the media splash he needed..

    Remember the agruments of Britt vs. Robiskee for a 2nd round selection...then post combine Britt mad Robiskee look 2nd class....

    I doubt too many people here were watching Georgia Tech games this year....I only did because I DVR the games of the WRs I want to see...

    PS -- If Jonathan Baldwin was on the Rams today, he would probably be starting Game 1 for us this year...

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