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Thread: To those who want to spend an early draft pick on OLB...

  1. #31
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    Re: To those who want to spend an early draft pick on OLB...

    Think about the Browns situation last year. They were making a switch to the 3-4 defense. They had Jabaal Sheard who was making the move to OLB. They went out and signed OLB Paul Kruger to a 60 million dollar contract. And they STILL drafted OLB Barkevious Mingo. Now it's Ray Horton's job to find playing ti,e for 3 good players.

    If we had a chance at Barr, I think Fisher would either take Barr or trade down. I don't feel like he would pass on him though.



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    Re: To those who want to spend an early draft pick on OLB...

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Think about the Browns situation last year. They were making a switch to the 3-4 defense. They had Jabaal Sheard who was making the move to OLB. They went out and signed OLB Paul Kruger to a 60 million dollar contract. And they STILL drafted OLB Barkevious Mingo. Now it's Ray Horton's job to find playing ti,e for 3 good players.

    If we had a chance at Barr, I think Fisher would either take Barr or trade down. I don't feel like he would pass on him though.
    What the Browns are going through now really has little to do with what the Rams would be going through, should they elect to draft Barr.

    Again, with the Rams, you're talking about a team with big money committed to one linebacker (Laurainitis) and one defensive end (Long), a breakout All Pro type pass rusher who is going to get big money soon (Quinn), and a first round pick at the same position as the guy being suggested (Ogletree).

    The Browns have big money committed to one player (Kruger) and also have a guy playing on a cheap rookie contract whose ability to transition to the new defensive scheme was so up in the air that he was rumored to be on the trade block last year (Sheard).

    One reason they drafted Mingo was likely that Sheard was not an ideal fit for the new defense, which he's kind of shown this year. It's unlikely he'll be more than a back-up after this year, provided he is still with the team.

    So again, this isn't really a comparable example to what the Rams would experience, should they draft Barr. Sheard is at this point, IMO, a stopgap until Mingo is ready to become a full time starter. Then, he'll either be a back-up or on a new team. Long, Quinn, Laurinaitis, and Ogletree are not stopgaps.

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    Re: To those who want to spend an early draft pick on OLB...

    @Nick: First up, no worries about 'length of post.' I enjoy your analysis and this type of conversation.

    I think we largely agree - the difference being how viable Barr would be in our nickel packages, which I think would actually improve and you think would hinder the other players in their current roles and leave them in less optimal positions for their skill sets. To me the difference is Long - I think shifting him inside doesn't limit him as much as you do in a nickel with Barr on the outside, and that a 3-3-5 would allow us a lot of flexibility - especially as you could switch between that alignment and the 3-3-5 or its stack variant with the exact same personnel on the field.

    But yeah, I may be wrong on that.

    And bringing Barr in the 4-3 would definitely increase our athleticism, and help insulate us against risk if Dunbarr failed a test.

    And as far as talent level goes, several services have him rated as tied with Clowney as the best talent in the draft.

    The reason I think he fits better than Clowney or one of the middle guys is he's a better player in space, and therefore would help us in the nickel. I'd be opposed to taking any other LB in the top 6 (assuming the Skins pick is there, which seems very likely right now). You may be right that the $$$ would preclude that as an efficient use of cap space -but rookies just don't get the pay scale they used to so in his initial contract I think we'd be OK there. And in 4 years, its probably time to reconsider Lauranitis, as much as I like him.

    So doable, IMO, though you do point out there'd be some definite considerations. But the upside is very high.

    There's less considerations with Matthews, and that helps us considerably as well. We definitely concur there.

    Trade down is always a question mark. It doesn't seem like there's any 'we'll pay the farm for him' guys in this draft, so the RGIII dream trade doesn't seem likely. I live in Skins country, and some of the guys here are convinced they aren't going to win another game and the #1 pick in the draft will go to us. Can't say that makes me very sad. Hard to root for the 'Skins while they have that owner.

    Regardless, a fun discussion with you and you've raised some great points! Glad to have such knowledgeable individuals to bounce ideas off of on this forum.
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    Re: To those who want to spend an early draft pick on OLB...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I'm not buying that. His playing time has been reduce by more then 60%. Since he came back our defense against the run is much improved. Sure he's not getting as many splash plays as last year. But he did make a huge tackle for a loss on the goal line last week. Calling him starter is kind of like calling Tavon a started. It depends on what the other team does on the first play of the game. He is playing as a situational player now. In week 10 he only had 15 snaps, played 20% of that game. His numbers are clearly going to be down.
    Yes, they are clearly down. His tackles per start are down nearly 50% from last year, and he's provided not a single sack, hurry, forced fumble, recovery, interception, or pass defense this year. And its hard to understand a response such as 'he's helped our run defense, but he's almost never on the field.' Dunbar's numbers are returning to what they were before the PEDs - and that wasn't that impressive. We definitely could use an upgrade at his position. He's average at best - and with the drug issue hanging over his head, a potential massive liability.

    I think off the top of my head that Finnegan has graded out as the worst started by far,
    Over the course of the year, yeah, I'd have to agree. Of course, a lot of that he was dealing with a fractured skull. I was talking about as of this point in time - Finnegan had been demoted a couple weeks prior to the IR, IIRC.

    I have to wonder if Finnegan will be here next year. In my mind I'm already expecting him not to be. He's the worst value player not only on the team but possibly the league if he doesn't perform better next year, so I expect him to be gone or have a much lower contract.

    Next to Finnegan, Dunbar is the defensive player that concerns me the most. I think we are alright at S, they just need some experience (and bringing in a FA S would be relatively cheap, as there's lots of good ones this year). Langford is the other guy you look at - he's getting paid a lot more than Dunbar, I'd like to see him play up to his contract. But with him I think it was largely health - if his knee isn't right in the offseason, replacing him might become a priority.

    So I can see why you might not want Barr in for Dunbar, but IMO he'd be the best talent to cost upgrade we could get on our D this year. Rookies are cheap now.

    But as Nick and several other people stated, lots of ways we could go. If we get a really high pick (2 or 3), we might be able to trade down and get 2 or 3 young quality guys in the first few rounds to address various issues and provide depth. You don't really need Barr - he is a luxury pick - and a plugger at SLB in round 3 or 4 would make Dunbar expendable.
    Last edited by demiurge; -12-03-2013 at 04:49 PM.

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    Re: To those who want to spend an early draft pick on OLB...

    Quote Originally Posted by demiurge View Post
    Yes, they are clearly down. His tackles per start are down nearly 50% from last year, and he's provided not a single sack, hurry, forced fumble, recovery, interception, or pass defense this year. And its hard to understand a response such as 'he's helped our run defense, but he's almost never on the field.' Dunbar's numbers are returning to what they were before the PEDs - and that wasn't that impressive. We definitely could use an upgrade at his position. He's average at best - and with the drug issue hanging over his head, a potential massive liability.

    Over the course of the year, yeah, I'd have to agree. Of course, a lot of that he was dealing with a fractured skull. I was talking about as of this point in time - Finnegan had been demoted a couple weeks prior to the IR, IIRC.

    I have to wonder if Finnegan will be here next year. In my mind I'm already expecting him not to be. He's the worst value player not only on the team but possibly the league if he doesn't perform better next year, so I expect him to be gone or have a much lower contract.

    Next to Finnegan, Dunbar is the defensive player that concerns me the most. I think we are alright at S, they just need some experience (and bringing in a FA S would be relatively cheap, as there's lots of good ones this year). Langford is the other guy you look at - he's getting paid a lot more than Dunbar, I'd like to see him play up to his contract. But with him I think it was largely health - if his knee isn't right in the offseason, replacing him might become a priority.

    So I can see why you might not want Barr in for Dunbar, but IMO he'd be the best talent to cost upgrade we could get on our D this year. Rookies are cheap now.

    But as Nick and several other people stated, lots of ways we could go. If we get a really high pick (2 or 3), we might be able to trade down and get 2 or 3 young quality guys in the first few rounds to address various issues and provide depth. You don't really need Barr - he is a luxury pick - and a plugger at SLB in round 3 or 4 would make Dunbar expendable.
    Asked about his early-season struggles, Finnegan told Titans Online in late October, "That's obvious. You know what, from a personal standpoint, I think I was not buying in totally, wasn't making plays. I'm not sure they were big plays; there were one or two passes, giving up two passes a game, and one of them was a touchdown. That seems to be a bad stat especially when you're losing. It's just getting back to basics, and I enjoy that. You got to thrive through the good and bad times. I'm not really worried about that."

    This was before his eye injury, so Finnegan also mentioned the following: "I found my dagger, so now I got my swagger. ... I think it was like Thor -- it was in a rock I couldn't get out of. I knew I had to pull softly. I tried to pull with everything I had, and it just wasn't working."
    His eye had nothing to do with his play from day one.

    Finnegan was a major disappointment this season, ranking dead last among the 108 cornerbacks measured by Pro Football Focus. He also missed three weeks earlier this season with a hamstring injury, and when he returned, he was limited to nickel back duties.
    I guess we can agree to disagree on Dunbar.

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    Re: To those who want to spend an early draft pick on OLB...

    Quote Originally Posted by demiurge View Post
    Regardless, a fun discussion with you and you've raised some great points! Glad to have such knowledgeable individuals to bounce ideas off of on this forum.
    Thanks, I enjoyed the discussion as well. It's fun to disagree and have a debate with someone who is bringing great information and valid points like you did!

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