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Thread: Vernon Gholston Godlike

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Say what you want to say about the video Ram fans, but it didn't lie. Everything you saw was what Gholston actually did. And I must say, he was awfully impressive.

    What's deceiving is those who claim he was shut out by a number of teams. Unless you personally watched each of those games, you are not qualified to make statements like that. My guess is, he was probably the focus of all of those teams.

    Chances are he was doubled and maybe even tripled in a lot of those games allowing others to make plays. Someone opposing his drafting by the Rams would not point those things out, though without actually knowing for sure, my guess would certainly be that that's exactly what happened at least in some of those games.

    But regardless of what viewpoint you take, there's no denying what this man is capable of. It'll be up to his next coaching staff to bring it out of him.

    He definitely looks like the best pass rusher in this draft, bar none. And if a pass rusher is our most glaring need (and I believe it is), there's no question in my mind who the choice should be.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -03-28-2008 at 12:40 AM.


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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Say what you want to say about the video Ram fans, but it didn't lie. Everything you saw was what Gholston actually did. And I must say, he was awfully impressive.

    What's deceiving is those who claim he was shut out by a number of teams. Unless you personally watched each of those games, you are not qualified to make statements like that. My guess is, he was probably the focus of all of those teams.

    Chances are he was doubled and maybe even tripled in a lot of those games allowing others to make plays. Someone opposing his drafting by the Rams would not point those things out, though without actually knowing for sure, my guess would certainly be that that's exactly what happened at least in some of those games.

    But regardless of what viewpoint you take, there's no denying what this man is capable of. It'll be up to his next coaching staff to bring it out of him.

    He definitely looks like the best pass rusher in this draft, bar none. And if a pass rusher is our most glaring need (and I believe it is), there's no question in my mind who the choice should be.
    Dude, I love your sn :sfosux:

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by fortuniner
    What's deceiving is those who claim he was shut out by a number of teams. Unless you personally watched each of those games, you are not qualified to make statements like that.
    A. I'm not against the drafting of Gholston.......but the idea does pucker my butthole a little.

    B. To say he was shut out be all those teams I mentioned is fact, that is FACT. Not even my opinion, certainly not deceiving. Just F.A.C.T. I stand by my previous post.

    C. IF the reason he got shut out in each of those games is his team play, then wouldn't Chris Long still be the better choice as Virginia had more team sacks than Ohio St.?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Hater, as one of those "misleading skeptics", how can you say we're being misleading? We're telling the truth, he was completely shut out by non-power teams some weeks and was amazing other weeks. I personally have him rotating between two and three on my draft board. I'm not saying that we shouldn't take him, what I'm saying is, as the top of the draft gets more and more expensive, and more and more of a crap shoot, we better be sure of what we're getting. I'm one of the biggest supporters of DE or bust at the top of the draft, we very much do need one, however, what we don't need is a wonderful athlete taking $30M in signing bonus money to sit on his butt all day, whether it come from being double teamed or from sucking so much that he gets cut.

    I very much want to think that Gholston will become the next Julius Peppers. I love J-Pep. I want us to have a dominant defender like him, however, I also desperately want this pick to work out too. A player who is chosen at the top of the draft can't have commitment issues and someone of Gholston's great ability should have been able to get more than half tackles for loss against lesser teams even if he was game planned against. If he was shut out by NFL backup hopefuls, what will happen when he goes against pro bowlers? Jake Long gave up two sacks in four years. Chris Long is the model of giving it every down and busting plays despite being doubled on EVERY SINGLE PLAY. Dorsey was injured and stepped up his game. Dominant players dominate, no matter what they're presented with. To me, Gholston has not proved that yet. That's not to say he won't, however.

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by fortuniner
    Say what you want to say about the video Ram fans, but it didn't lie. Everything you saw was what Gholston actually did. And I must say, he was awfully impressive.
    I saw highlight videos on Ryan Leaf, Robert Gallery, & Charles Rogers too. They were mighty impressive.......maybe we should draft one of them since the video doesn't lie.

    Sarcasm alert on: Those videos that pick out a handful of plays in some players entire career, even showing some multiple times from different angles are certainly not deceiving like those evil zeros on the stat sheet. :Sarcasm alert off
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    . I'm not against the drafting of Gholston.......but the idea does pucker my butthole a little.
    Classic...

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by TekeRam View Post
    I can make it seem like Long gave up twenty sacks in that game if I use the same replay over and over with different camera angles. Highlights are just that, highlights. The fact of the matter is, he gave up less sacks in his college career than some tackles do in one game.

    As for Gholston, yes, he was the one guy to beat him since his freshman year. Guess what, it happens. You take a bad angle, you stumble a bit, you give up a sack against an extraordinary athlete. What about the small time OT's that shut him down? Does that mean that they're Titan-like? That's pretty damn good for never even being considered for the NFL.
    I love how everybody looks at how many sacks Jake Long gave up as this great stat. I wasnt even looking at the sack he gave up vs Gholston. Go back and look at him getting manhandled by #97. Not giving up sacks is important but if your tackle is in the backfield as much as your qb it's a problem. Funny that that was a highlight video for Gholston, but seemed to be a lowlight video for Long. If thats how Long played against Ohio State I would hate to see him blocking de's in the NFL. I dont need to do research to see how a guy is performing on the field. If he gets pushed into the qb that many times by one guy what's gonna happen in the NFL? By the way #97 wasnt Gholston, Gholston only went up against him once in that highlight video. I want to know who #97 is because if Long is the best tackle in the draft I want to know who the guy who knocks him on his arse and manhandles him is.
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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    I love how everybody looks at how many sacks Jake Long gave up as this great stat. I wasnt even looking at the sack he gave up vs Gholston. Go back and look at him getting manhandled by #97. Not giving up sacks is important but if your tackle is in the backfield as much as your qb it's a problem. Funny that that was a highlight video for Gholston, but seemed to be a lowlight video for Long. If thats how Long played against Ohio State I would hate to see him blocking de's in the NFL. I dont need to do research to see how a guy is performing on the field. If he gets pushed into the qb that many times by one guy what's gonna happen in the NFL? By the way #97 wasnt Gholston, Gholston only went up against him once in that highlight video. I want to know who #97 is because if Long is the best tackle in the draft I want to know who the guy who knocks him on his arse and manhandles him is.
    While the "analysis" of Jake Long makes me chuckle, I will give you enormous credit for mentioning #97, freshman DT Cameron Heyward, son of Craig "Ironhead" Heyward. The 19-year-old needs to get stronger, but will most likely be a day 1 pick in 2010 or 2011.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    there's no denying what this man is capable of
    Coach at Ohio

    He said, ‘Vernon, if you just had more fire, if you just go knock the (snot) out of someone …’ ” Wilcher remembers. “ ‘I need more fire out of you! I need more plays out of you!’ ”
    I might be reaching, but he will be off the charts or will be an under achiever. I'm still waiting for Veron Davis TE for the whiners to play up to the gifts he has. (Not that I want and whiner to play well).

    I wounder if he will always need to be pushed a little...

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    While the "analysis" of Jake Long makes me chuckle, I will give you enormous credit for mentioning #97, freshman DT Cameron Heyward, son of Craig "Ironhead" Heyward. The 19-year-old needs to get stronger, but will most likely be a day 1 pick in 2010 or 2011.
    Hmmm......what makes me chuckle in your analysis of Long is that there are no freshman in the NFL. That was a frashman that manhandled him in one game? Now I'm really nervous about what he would do against the likes of Julious Peppers,Adalius Thomas,Justin Smith, and NFL pro's who know everything in the book. I still stand by my original feeling about Jake Long, I'll pass. Hey maybe if we draft him as long as he isnt giving up sacks but gets Bulger killed after the throw that will be ok.
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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Hmmm......what makes me chuckle in your analysis of Long is that there are no freshman in the NFL.
    You know, I was going to leave this alone, but fine we'll make this about Jake Long now. Here's my analysis of Jake Long from that video. The video (made by a OSU fan, no doubt) shows the one and only sack Long gave up his senior year. It also shows a play where Heyward gets under Long and pushes him into Henne.

    That, my friends, is the extent of the "manhandling" this OSU film student could come up with.

    What else does it show about Jake Long? It also has a clip of him running an OSU defender completely off the screen. Not to mention, 4 clips of him shutting down the same Heyward.

    And has anyone else noticed that in this Gholston highlight video, they only showed one clip of Gholston vs. Long (the sack). If Long sucks so bad, there should be plenty of video of Gholston beating Long...........but there's not.

    Again, don't put a lot of faith in highlight videos. Charles Rogers, Ryan Leaf, Robert Gallery.......they had highlight videos, too.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I might be reaching, but he will be off the charts or will be an under achiever. I'm still waiting for Veron Davis TE for the whiners to play up to the gifts he has. (Not that I want and whiner to play well).
    Agreed. When I look at highlights of Gholston, Vernon Davis immediately comes to mind as someone with a chiseled frame who had those same types of amazing college highlights, but in two years has yet to be an impact player or make any real difference with the whiners. Maybe Gholston can live up to his college billing, but highlight videos don't necessarily tell the whole story or translate to NFL success.

    That said, I think Gholston certainly has the potential be a great player, but his reported on-again, off-again motor, his tendency to play to the level of the competition and the fact that he may be better suited to play LB in the NFL makes me uneasy about using the #2 pick on him.

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    A. I'm not against the drafting of Gholston.......but the idea does pucker my butthole a little.

    B. To say he was shut out be all those teams I mentioned is fact, that is FACT. Not even my opinion, certainly not deceiving. Just F.A.C.T. I stand by my previous post.

    C. IF the reason he got shut out in each of those games is his team play, then wouldn't Chris Long still be the better choice as Virginia had more team sacks than Ohio St.?


    A) If you weren't against it, my guess is, your butthole probably wouldn't pucker. If it does, your condition is probably a little more serious than a draft pick.

    B) Nobody said it wasn't a fact, but it certainly is deceiving when you don't explain why he may have been shutout. If the reason was as I explained in my previous post, it certainly may change one's opinion.

    C) Doesn't make a lick of sense. Chris Long's team could've had a hundred more sacks than Ohio St, but that's got nothing to do with who's a better choice for the Rams.

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Coach at Ohio



    I might be reaching, but he will be off the charts or will be an under achiever. I'm still waiting for Veron Davis TE for the whiners to play up to the gifts he has. (Not that I want and whiner to play well).

    I wounder if he will always need to be pushed a little...
    Vernon Davis has been injured or has played with Alex Smith, not exactly a recipe for success.

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    Re: Vernon Gholston Godlike

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    A) If you weren't against it, my guess is, your butthole probably wouldn't pucker. If it does, your condition is probably a little more serious than a draft pick.

    B) Nobody said it wasn't a fact, but it certainly is deceiving when you don't explain why he may have been shutout. If the reason was as I explained in my previous post, it certainly may change one's opinion.

    C) Doesn't make a lick of sense. Chris Long's team could've had a hundred more sacks than Ohio St, but that's got nothing to do with who's a better choice for the Rams.
    A) You're guess is wrong.......but one of us certainly does need to unclinch.

    B) And if my aunt had a sack she'd be my uncle.....but she doesn't. I'm sure Gholston apologists could come up with all kind of "IF" scenarios to help explain why he got shut out of the backfield in nearly half of his collegiate games, but none of the excuses will take away from the fact, that is FACT, that he did get shut out.

    C) Then why in the holy name of Chevy Chase did you give the excuse of Gholston getting double teamed as a reason for why he got shut out? You said it was to help his team make plays. Well, Chris Long's team made more plays.



    Look, let's go ahead and end this right now. You love Gholston. You think he's the answer to our defensive needs. Fine, maybe he is. However, there are still too many question marks surrounding his game for me to break out the annointing oil just yet.

    I will NOT be against taking him with the #2, assuming C. Long is gone at #1. If that's the case, pull the trigger. Gholston, J. Long, Dorsey.....all about the same to me at this point.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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