Vick to Rams Backlash

[peramoure]

I don't think dogfighting should be legal - he's been in prison for well over a year. He served his time.

Second - it makes me sick that you all justify Leonard Little being on the team because he ACCIDENTALLY killed someone. Whoops! I drank two times the legal limit, knowingly got into my car and RAN SOMEONE OVER. It was accidental though, so don't fret! Ridiculous that you guys back that type of behavior.

[AvengerRam]

Nobody "backs" what Little did. He was irresponsible and grossly negligent, and his actions inflicted irreparable harm on an innocent family.

If you did a poll upon his release from prison asking whether Rams fans wanted him back, I think you would have found that at least 50% would have said no.

Its not our choice, though. The Rams decided to give him a chance and, from a football standpoint, their decison paid off as Little became a Pro Bowl player.

If the Rams, against our wishes, signed Vick, I think we'd accept it (what's the alternative) and hope for the best.

In my opinion, though, he's just not a good enough football player to make it worth the trouble. As a QB, his best season was an 81.6 passer rating. Marc Bulger's career rating is 85.6.

We just don't need the headache.

[bigtiger737]

Ok I will probably go on this tingent and then I am done with the Vick talk.. He will not be a ram.. it's not going to happen so I don't rally care about it.. However
Maybe some people think he's done his time and what not... I'm not one of them.. As mentioned it was intentional what he did. He enjoyed doing this... Let me say this again he ENJOYED KILLING AND BEATING AND ELECTRICUTING ANIMALS AFTER HE MADE THEM FIGHT.. How many people pets did that maggot and his friend's take from families and laugh while there fighting dogs ripped them apart for practice.. For everyone that thinks that good conversation and you want to cheer for that.. Then I hope I'm offending you because only a coward.. a stupid.. worthless... waste of human tissue would fight a dog.. and if You look up to someone like that then your a worthless coward too..

[Fat Pang]

Its a little too trite to say that in Little's case where Mrs Gutweiler died it was unintentional whereas in Vicks case it was intentional. To me that line of argument just can't be supported. What's worse, criminal negligence or criminal intent?

In both cases there's a tariff appended to the crime and if we are to believe in a criminal justice system that is remotely proportional and rehabilitative then Vick 'deserves' whatever he can earn on his release. To continue to condemn him does nothing for us, him or society-at-large.

I made a similar argument in support of Little as some may recall and I'd do the same for anybody out there who has paid the price of their actions, expressed remorse and demonstrates that they recognise the implications of their actions.

What's the alternative?

In any case we don't need the distractions off the field and we don't need him on it.

And yes I'm a dog owner, for whatever that's worth.

[TheTalkOfTheArch]

People think Vick is a cancer, certainly warranted, but this Rams team being built around the four pillars could be a good environment for him. Instead of sending him to a team full of pacman jones why not put him in an environment where he could be a better person. Society always seems to deal with its problems with NIMBYism. I think Vick is a talented player and Spags could find some use for him so why not put him in a good enviornment?

If Warner were still here you could bet he'd take Vick to Church with him and I believe there are guys like that on this team still.

[Fortuninerhater]

Originally Posted by AvengerRam

Vick just isn't a good enough player to be worth the trouble.

Some would argue that our starting QB is in the same boat.

[Fortuninerhater]

Seriously, what does a 5 and 27 team over the last 2 years have to lose. Some of you talk as if the last 2 years didn't exist. Like we're coming off a Superbowl win and Marc Bulger's coming off consecutive pro-bowl campaigns or something.

Like bringing in Vick might somehow destroy our chemistry. Well news flash guys, "WE HAVE NO CHEMISTRY". In fact, all we have is a team that needs as much help as it can get before the season starts.

Therefore, in my estimation, we have absolutely nothing to lose, but everything to gain. If he doesn't make the team, then so be it. We'll go with what we have at that time, which is exactly where we are right now. Sign him.

[Goldenfleece]

Originally Posted by peramoure

He is a reformed felon! Do you believe in second chances? First and foremost, the guy served a long sentence, forfeited tens of millions of dollars and is genuinely remorseful per Tony Dungy, numerous pastors, and even Arthur Blank.

Now come on, anybody who's going to see the guy while he's in prison is probably going to say he's sorry. You say he's reformed, but how is anybody supposed to really know whether he is or not? Second chances don't necessarily mean you pretend like it never happened. In my opinion, part of his job as an NFL quarterback is to get the fans excited about seeing him play. The "product" is an entertainment experience that for many would be dampened by his presence. He should absolutely be afforded opportunities to turn his life around and become an upstanding member of his community, but not at the expense of the enjoyment of fans who don't want to see him out there.

[AvengerRam]

Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater

Some would argue that our starting QB is in the same boat.

Yes. Those people are called "morons."

Last time I checked, Bulger was a QB who went to the Pro Bowl twice, is currently under contract, and has never gone to prison. But, hey... if the "same boat" means they're both carbon based life forms, I guess the people who would make that argument are right on target.

[ImJohnWayne]

Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater

Therefore, in my estimation, we have absolutely nothing to lose

Respect. Mine and that of a lot of other fans. I would like to think this organization is above signing a person like that.

Seeing Vick in a Rams jersey would disgust me.

[poejoe8]

I'm not going to get in an argument over Little's case, it may be called accidental but it was also avoidable. I have no problem with Vick playing in the NFL, but I just don't want him on the Rams. It would be perfect as far as I'm concerned if he did go to Dallas so don't count Jerrah Jones out of it yet.

[r8rh8rmike]

Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater

Like bringing in Vick might somehow destroy our chemistry. Well news flash guys, "WE HAVE NO CHEMISTRY". In fact, all we have is a team that needs as much help as it can get before the season starts.

Spags has a philosophy. It revolves around solid individuals who posses character and core values, and that's what he's going to build his team around. Do you really think Vick fits that profile?? Maybe you should ask the judge who granted Vick bail during his sentencing period what he thinks about a guy who cries for forgiveness and claims he is a changed man, then fail a drug test the minute he's back on the street.

[laram0]

Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike

Spags has a philosophy. It revolves around solid individuals who posses character and core values, and that's what he's going to build his team around. Do you really think Vick fits that profile?? Maybe you should ask the judge who granted Vick bail during his sentencing period what he thinks about a guy who cries for forgiveness and claims he is a changed man, then fail a drug test the minute he's back on the street.

Exactly.....

So does a team take a chance on what's he going to do next?

Not us I hope.

[UtterBlitz]

Originally Posted by bigtiger737

Ok I will probably go on this tingent and then I am done with the Vick talk.. He will not be a ram.. it's not going to happen so I don't rally care about it.. However
Maybe some people think he's done his time and what not... I'm not one of them.. As mentioned it was intentional what he did. He enjoyed doing this... Let me say this again he ENJOYED KILLING AND BEATING AND ELECTRICUTING ANIMALS AFTER HE MADE THEM FIGHT.. How many people pets did that maggot and his friend's take from families and laugh while there fighting dogs ripped them apart for practice.. For everyone that thinks that good conversation and you want to cheer for that.. Then I hope I'm offending you because only a coward.. a stupid.. worthless... waste of human tissue would fight a dog.. and if You look up to someone like that then your a worthless coward too..

Perhaps you need to step out of your world and look at dog fighting from another perspective to understand why people would fight dogs. They are not cowards. They are people that have seen this as a norm. Dog fighting apparently has been around and is common in certain areas. People are social creatures and if an activity like dog fighting, horse racing, rodeos, hunting, or raising animals for slaughter is accepted than they are going to think that it is ok too. I think the point that was made about killing animals for eating was a great one. Most of us eat meat, and you really don't want to know the conditions that those animals endure before they are killed. Of course, they are not pets, so maybe that is fine with you.

From what I have seen and read, people would fight dogs for status, and for money. People want to noticed and they want to be special and for some having the best fighting dog is something to be proud of. I doubt that Vick truly enjoyed killing the injured dogs, but they needed to be put down since they were of no use to him anymore. That is part of fighting dogs is disposing of them when they are no longer useful. If he did enjoy killing dogs himself, than I would say that he is sick. I think you are jumping to conclusions by saying that he enjoyed the killing and that he used other people's pets in the dog fights.

I was in Romania for a wedding years ago and and the best man owned two fighting pit bulls. He showed me them and they were impressive looking and he was very proud of them. You don't really have pets in romania. They don't have the money for shots and pest controls. Animals are kept outside and they live a hard life. This guy's pit bulls were something that made him stand out and made him special.

I would say that Michael Vick has great needs to feel important and special in this world. He is not happy just living. He wants to be somebody. Fighting dogs and winning was something that was important to him. I don't think he realized that other people would find it so disgusting. He should have gone hunting for big game instead and had some big prize trophies to mount on the wall. Big game hunting is legal and I think more publicly accepted.

It will be interesting to see what he does now that he has a whole lot of people hating him for fighting dogs. I think his need to feel important and special will lead him out of this tough spot.

I don't know if he is going to be a Ram or not, or play on the NFL or not. I just hope he gets another chance somewhere in life. Perhaps he does not have the football skills to make it in the NFL anymore. Avenger may be right about that. He may not be worth the disturbance that he will bring to the team for the talent that he has now. I really don't know what the FO thinks about players these days. There has been too many changes and I don't know what they would think of bringing in a player like Vick.

[r8rh8rmike]

Originally Posted by UtterBlitz

I doubt that Vick truly enjoyed killing the injured dogs, but they needed to be put down since they were of no use to him anymore. That is part of fighting dogs is disposing of them when they are no longer useful. If he did enjoy killing dogs himself, than I would say that he is sick. I think you are jumping to conclusions by saying that he enjoyed the killing and that he used other people's pets in the dog fights.

I don't agree with this at all. Hangings, drownings, electricutions and slamming their bodies to the ground to "dispose" of them?? Come on UtterBlitz, what would be the motivation for this type of behavior other than amusement? Michael Vick and his buddies are twisted and evil, plain and simple. There is absolutely zero justification for their admitted actions.