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  1. #31
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    Yeah... its hard to understand his actions.

    We can understand (though not condone) the thief who steals because he's poor.

    We can understand (though not condone) the addict who buys illegal substances.

    We can even understand (though not condone) one who commits an isolated act of violence upon provocation.

    But Vick... what he did, he did because it was fun. It wasn't a money making enterprise that he needed (he had more money than he would ever need). He took pleasure in what he did.

    That's a hard one to get your head wrapped around.


  2. #32
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    So you don't understand someone that does something for attention then?

    Is there any proof out there that says that Vick thought dog fighting was fun and that he enjoyed it? Please post up articles or hearsay, or thoughts that show me that he did this for fun.
    Last edited by UtterBlitz; -06-03-2009 at 04:05 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    I am looking and the USDA report that they released did say he used family pets and that the three men thought it was "funny" to watch the dog fighting. I am trying to see if I can find the actual document somewhere.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    This is the best that I could find. It is from the smoking gun. There is a version of the usda document attached with lots of things blacked out. Sorry for posting a link.

    More Michael Vick Barbarism Bared - November 24, 2008

    One of the witnesses said that family pets were used, but I can't tell whose dogs they were. They might have been Vick's dogs.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    UtterBlitz, Vick was the guy in charge of the whole sad affair. The facilitator, the ring leader, the financier. He and his co-defendants admitted that they had at times killed dogs that didn't perform well by repeatedly slamming them to the ground until they were dead. Think about it, these were defenseless animals. Is there really any possible justification for that? Doesn't that put things into perspective?

    I don't particularly care if he enjoyed doing what he did or not. He did it, and continued doing it until he got caught. Maybe if he had stopped his activities before being arrested, admitted it was wrong and showed remorse, I might have some sympathy for him, but he didn't, and I don't.

  6. #36
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    UtterBlitz, Vick was the guy in charge of the whole sad affair. The facilitator, the ring leader, the financier. He and his co-defendants admitted that they had at times killed dogs that didn't perform well by repeatedly slamming them to the ground until they were dead. Think about it, these were defenseless animals. Is there really any possible justification for that? Doesn't that put things into perspective?

    I don't particularly care if he enjoyed doing what he did or not. He did it, and continued doing it until he got caught. Maybe if he had stopped his activities before being arrested, admitted it was wrong and showed remorse, I might have some sympathy for him, but he didn't, and I don't.
    Dogs are hardly every defenseless Mike. Yes he bought them, fought them, and killed them. Fighting pit bulls are not family pets. I honestly don't know what you would do with a dog that was severely injured besides kill it. Don't they shoot race horses when they break legs? What is so different about this?

    I don't agree with dog fighting but I realize that it exists in this society, today. Micheal Vick was fully involved in dog fighting and I don't think he saw anything wrong with it. He may show remorse now because of the public pressure, but only now since he sees the public outrage at his actions. You may never feel any sympathy for him. That is fine.

    For me, I was really upset when the news came out about him fighting pits since I have my little boy Lee and I have gotten to like pit bulls. I wanted him punished and he was punished. Now it is his turn to see if he can find a way to get back into society. So many people are seeing red and hate right now. He may not get a second chance especially in a public position such as football.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by UtterBlitz View Post
    Dogs are hardly every defenseless Mike. Yes he bought them, fought them, and killed them. Fighting pit bulls are not family pets. I honestly don't know what you would do with a dog that was severely injured besides kill it. Don't they shoot race horses when they break legs? What is so different about this?.
    These dogs were defenseless. They were killed because they didn't perform well. My biggest problem here was the way they were savagely executed. Again, there is absolutely no justification or reason for the sadistic methods that were used at Vick's compound.

    We obviously see this situation differently.

  8. #38
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by UtterBlitz View Post
    Don't they shoot race horses when they break legs? What is so different about this?
    Yeah, but did they kill the horses by hanging them upside down and electrocuting them? Or smash them into the ground repeatedly until they died?

  9. #39
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by evil disco man View Post
    Yeah, but did they kill the horses by hanging them upside down and electrocuting them? Or smash them into the ground repeatedly until they died?
    They are fairly humane on the racetracks when the public is watching, but that is not the case when racehorses are shipped out to slaughter houses. I just watched a nasty video about how they kill horses and the the method used to kill horses in Mexico is by stabbing them in the spine until they are disabled. Then they are strung up from their hind legs and their throats are slit. Some others are killed by hitting them with a hammer on their heads.

    none of these methods of death sound nice or humane to me.

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  10. #40
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    Vick is sadistic. I don't like cruel people that torture animals for their own selfish pleasure and thats all I'm gonna say about that.

  11. #41
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    Ok.. Blitz I hope your just trying to keep us entertained or somthing... Look man, I realize you think you are being openminded about this, but just because someone was proud of having them in romania or some cultures do it does not justify it. Cultures also still have slaves and for them it's normal.. Some cultures grow massive mounts of drugs and for them that's normal for them.. weahter it is for money attention etc etc. It is wrong.. Nothing changes that. In Vick's case Attention, money, culture and every reason you mentioned are not valid.. He had all of these things. As far as stepping out of my world. How many beaten dogs have you found in your yard? How many times have you been around dog fighting, or people who do so? Because I have. If you had some experience and not just speculation you would know you have to train a fighting dog on animals before fights.. So lost, free, or stolen pets are what is used.. and then discarded, it's common knowledge in the subject, and they don't just use dogs, they use cats,kittins,rabbits, livestock, Puppies, just something to help them practice. I have found practice animals which the last time for me was in March, it was an old st bernard.. It died in my yard shortly after I had came home from an Overnight. that was the 2nd time it had happened. aside from finding pets there were some hillbillies that had pets they had used as practise fights hanging that they were shooting when me and a friend drove by. one of them was a old highschool friend, until that day. I know what I'm talking about, it's easy to say this stuff but it's very diffrent when you see it.. And yes they are cowards.. If your a man and you can't use your own 2 fists then don't be involved with fighting... You will find that is a much more common culture.. Look people can bet on anything.. why make this event? There is no proper justification why not race the dogs? why not race cockroaches? and if you wanna bet on fights find 2 willing men, or put up your own fists.. As for your friend in romania you don't have to fight pit bulls to be proud or for them to look impressive. The species of pitbull is tarnished because of dog fighting.. My friend has a rescue pit and he is magnificent and behaves and listens to commands without fighting.. and lastly the thing about the no dog being helpless.. Dogs are helpless when it comes to abuse because of the psychy they have as a pack animal.. So yes many dogs will not attack even if there human master attacks them because it's part of the genetic programing... Yes there are acceptions, just like there are acceptions to everything else... Ok anything else or can we finally be done with this?
    Last edited by bigtiger737; -06-04-2009 at 02:34 PM.

  12. #42
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    bigtiger you have obviously seen more with dog fighting than I have. I have never seen an organized dog fight, nor have I watched dogs being trained for killing. I don't really know what sort of person fights dogs and for what reasons. You know more about it than I do. I know my friend in Romania was very proud of his dogs and he fought them with concern for their well being. He wanted them to win and he wanted them to last and he was going to retire them when they lost the passion for it. Maybe that is not normal in the dog fighting world.

    Vick was using many dogs and it seems he did not care much for any of them.

    You are correct that dogs will not attack within their own pack, and these dogs would not have attacked the men that killed them if they considered them as alpha members of the pack. I don't know if they had that relationship or not.

    So if I have this right, you believe that all people that fight dogs are cowards and Vick is a coward and a killer.

    Do you believe in second chances or do you think that Vick should be shunned from football for life for fighting dogs? The court system is almost done with him. Do you think he should be allowed to work in any sort of job in the future? Do you think he should be punished further?
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  13. #43
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    I have not seen the dog fights, but they happen in my area.. What I am describing my experiences, are simply someone who lives in the community where it happens. That's how effective it is. If I was at a dog fight I would get hurt or someone else would. That high school friend of mine and I will never talk again after me and sully drove up on them shooting those animals. And I am ok with that, if I see him again there would be nothing but hostility towards him. As For vick, no he hasn't done enough. The ability to carry out the actions they did, shows a detachment pychiatriclly that can't be fixed in 1 year, and not by prison. Prison really needs to be restrucured if it is ever going to help anyone. But more importantly I don't think Vick has earned forgivness because I don't belive his sincerity. I don't belive he even grasps why what he was doing was bad. And that is the largest and most disturbing issue surrounding this. He has said sorry for all kinds of things like for his, fans, and his family, and the nfl, but nothing about his actions. He never said he was sorry he did it, because he was wrong.. Every apology has been consequently motivated.. so no I don't think 1year is enough, and the money and the fame wasn't enough because he still hasn't learned his lesson..
    Last edited by bigtiger737; -06-04-2009 at 08:51 PM.

  14. #44
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    also your friend in romania, ...
    caring for there we'll being and fighting them is incompatible behavior? Maybe they do it diffrent in romania... I don't know enough to really say anything about it, but it doesn't really make sence to me.. but like I said I don't know the cultural mentality or anywhere near enough about romania to make a competent statement

  15. #45
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    Re: Vick to Rams Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by bigtiger737 View Post
    also your friend in romania, ...
    caring for there we'll being and fighting them is incompatible behavior? Maybe they do it diffrent in romania... I don't know enough to really say anything about it, but it doesn't really make sence to me.. but like I said I don't know the cultural mentality or anywhere near enough about romania to make a competent statement
    Romania is a third world country. It is quite different from ours. I actually don't know if dog fighting is or was legal. This guy had a male and a female and he has them locked up and they looked fit. I think he may have made money on the fights and that would have been a big incentive for him. They did not look friendly at all to me and I was happy they were behind bars. I was trying to figure out what to do with the pit mix that I was fostering back then and this visit was educational to me. I did a lot of research on the breed and I was not going to keep my foster, that is until the family met him and fell for him. I still have to the little punk now and he is the favorite with the kids. The romanian guy was surprised that I was not fighting my dog. It did not make sense to him to not fight a pit bull. It is a different life over there.

    I think the fact that the country is too poor to have pets makes them think of animals in a less personal way. We have some very pampered pets here in the states.
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