Want an immediate impact on D? History says go with a LB or DE.

[AvengerRam]

I've read a number of posts that have suggested that Glenn Dorsey is the most "camera ready" of the defensive prospects. Perhaps, but history tells us that the players who typically make the most immediate impact on defense are either LBs or DEs.

Looking at the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year Award, 12 of the last 13 winners were DEs or LBs. The only exception was Charles Woodson at CB in 1998.

The last DT to win the award was Tim Bowens in 1994.

[mde8352gorams]

Tim who????

Av, whatever you read sounds absolutely correct. Which supports the notion that we need Chris Long more so than Vernon Gholston, who is said to take plays off. We need a guy who plays 100% or more on each play and that is how you make an impact, chasing down the ball carrier even if he's on the other side of the field. Long who comes out of Virginia where Al Groh is the HC teaches his players in the Bill Parcells mold of NEVER giving up on a play.

I'm feeling real good about our chances of getting C. Long, despite Tx's thread about him being a Carricker clone. Miami seems to be leaning toward Jake Long a greater need for them than DE.

We will have to address the OLB in a middle round, IMO.

Go Rams!:r

[txramsfan]

Well, it's getting tough to figure out what is most important anymore. Nick will come in and say "don't draft a LB in the first round....he doesn't play every down" and he has a point. Lot's of money to spend on someone who may not play in passing situations. Then you have this one that screams don't take a DT because they don't make an immediate impact. Historically, this is true but it always seems like the DT's are the ones who make or break a D line so passing up on a DT with the pedigree of Dorsey is a pretty big gamble if defense is a hole you need to fill. Then, you get these "he's a 3-4 LB or a 4-3 DE". Huh? makes it even difficult to go to Krispy Kreme anymore after listening to draft gurus.

[Dominating D]

Long is a cloned Wistrom.

I'm OK with that ......

Go Rams

[Dominating D]

AV,

Do you have to be a rookie of the year to make a significant difference in the NFL?

[AvengerRam]

Originally Posted by Dominating D

AV,

Do you have to be a rookie of the year to make a significant difference in the NFL?

Of course not. But its a pretty good indicator, wouldn't you say?

[Dominating D]

Originally Posted by AvengerRam

Of course not. But its a pretty good indicator, wouldn't you say?

I agree it does not hurt.

However, I do not believe this is a good indicator due to how some positons are more glorified. For example, the linbackers, defensive ends, cornerbacks, and safeties are much more noticable than a DT taking on 2/3 blockers so that MLB can make a play OR that DT who puts pressure up the middle on the QB so the DE can get a sack or the QB throws the ball early and the CB or SS can make a play.....

Just my thoughts...

[AvengerRam]

True, but I also think there have been more high-pick busts on the defensive side of the ball at the DT spot than any other. Rams fans often lament their team's misses, but there have been many others in recent years, such as Brodrick Bunkley (2006, #14),Travis Johnson (2005, #16), Marcus Tubbs (2004, #23), DeWayne Robertson (2003, #4), Jonathan Sullivan (2003, #6), Gerrard Warren (2001, #3), and, of course, Dan Wilkinson (1994, #1).

[Dominating D]

Originally Posted by AvengerRam

True, but I also think there have been more high-pick busts on the defensive side of the ball at the DT spot than any other. Rams fans often lament their team's misses, but there have been many others in recent years, such as Brodrick Bunkley (2006, #14),Travis Johnson (2005, #16), Marcus Tubbs (2004, #23), DeWayne Robertson (2003, #4), Jonathan Sullivan (2003, #6), Gerrard Warren (2001, #3), and, of course, Dan Wilkinson (1994, #1).

This is very true.

At least it seems the Rams got lucky with Ryan....

[MauiRam]

Originally Posted by AvengerRam

I've read a number of posts that have suggested that Glenn Dorsey is the most "camera ready" of the defensive prospects. Perhaps, but history tells us that the players who typically make the most immediate impact on defense are either LBs or DEs.

Looking at the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year Award, 12 of the last 13 winners were DEs or LBs. The only exception was Charles Woodson at CB in 1998.

The last DT to win the award was Tim Bowens in 1994.

What do you mean by camera ready? Deion Sanders came into the league "camera ready" at least in one sense.

Another thing that perhaps doesn't make highlight reels very often if at all, is that really good DTs will draw double-teams and free up DEs and LBs. Defeating a double team and pushing the pocket, or sealing off the lane where a running play is designed to go and preventing blockers from reaching the 2nd level, is huge for DEs and LBs. A good example is Ray Lewis of the Ravens who benefited greatly from Tony Siragusa's play. Ray got lots of press while Tony was there, but when the "Goose" retired, Ray's production slumped considerably. With stellar play at DT, the DEs and LBs have a far better chance to make the highlight reels .. It's true DTs don't get as much love for doing the dirty work ...

[Dominating D]

Originally Posted by MauiRam

What do you mean by camera ready? Deion Sanders came into the league "camera ready" at least in one sense.

Another thing that perhaps doesn't make highlight reels very often if at all, is that really good DTs will draw double-teams and free up DEs and LBs. Defeating a double team and pushing the pocket, or sealing off the lane where a running play is designed to go and preventing blockers from reaching the 2nd level, is huge for DEs and LBs. A good example is Ray Lewis of the Ravens who benefited greatly from Tony Siragusa's play. Ray got lots of press while Tony was there, but when the "Goose" retired, Ray's production slumped considerably. With stellar play at DT, the DEs and LBs have a far better chance to make the highlight reels .. It's true DTs don't get as much love for doing the dirty work ...

Very good point.

IMHO the Rams need to dominate the middle of the Defensive Line.

The reason is it will allow the 2 best players on the D side to play to their potential.

Spoon and OJ will be free to make plays and when your best players are playing at their best that is how you win games.....

[Mooselini]

Ah, this is a very true post. And a few down the site. That DT's usually don't have great rookie seasons, and they either improve or they just slowly die off and become depth. Which is my fear with Dorsey, though I honestly never paid too much attention to the draft, I'm more than sure several top DT picks haven't been TOO much of an impact compared to a DE or a LB.

I honestly think that if we get Chris Long, he's going to make more of an impact than our whole defensive line has these past few seasons. Dorsey may cause a double team, but if you dont really have good DE's (like us) a fullback or running back could slow them down still giving the QB a good amount of time.

[mde8352gorams]

Originally Posted by Dominating D

This is very true.

At least it seems the Rams got lucky with Ryan....

You mean Ryan Pickett, but he took a year before his value began to emerge. And when he was selected he was labeled a Defensive End; we converted him to a DT.

Let me also remind you from that same draft we took Damione Lewis, who was a bust. And he even came from a good program UMiami.

Go Rams!:r

[bruce4life]

Originally Posted by Dominating D

Long is a cloned Wistrom.

I'm OK with that ......

Go Rams

HEY HEY HEY... I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT SINCE DECEMBER YOU GUYS... SO NO ONE I REPEAT NO ONE SHOULD GET CREDIT FOR MAKING THAT COMPARISON MONTHS BEFORE.... LOL...

WE NEED DORSEY, HE LOVES THE GAME AND CAN BE A STALWORT FOR US FOR YEARS

[MauiRam]

Originally Posted by Mooselini

I honestly think that if we get Chris Long, he's going to make more of an impact than our whole defensive line has these past few seasons. Dorsey may cause a double team, but if you dont really have good DE's (like us) a fullback or running back could slow them down still giving the QB a good amount of time.

Clearly we need more talent on the D-line overall. Chris Long isn't likely to beat out Leonard Little in his 1st season as a pro, so if we take him he'll probably be competing with J. Hall. As far as a fullback or running back "slowing them down and giving the QB a good amount of time" -- you might ask Marc Bulger what he thinks of that theory .. Leonard has been double-teamed plenty the last few seaons, and it hurt his production. The middle of our D-line has been a highway for opposing running backs (last year it got better but there is much room for improvement), and with no push in the middle on passing downs, our DEs have too often been steered wide around the pocket allowing opposing QBs time to step forward into the pocket granting them the necessary time to find an open receiver. The only option left to us was to blitz heavily which produced some success, but also produced big plays for the opposition when they took advantage of the holes created in our D when we did blitz.

Nobody knows right now for sure who will be the best player among Dorsey, Long and Gholston - it is just the Rams' FO and coaching staff''s best educated guess against other teams' best guesses. At #2 overall, we can't afford to whiff. Whatever position our #1 pick plays -- he better be darn good ...