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  1. #16
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    I'd rather go with Chris Long, then pick up a tackle with our next pick. I feel Jake is heavily overrated after watching a few games, and I really believe there is not that much of a difference between him or any of the other stud tackles that might be taken in the late 1st/early 2nd round.

    We've needed help at defensive end for awhile now. Our D-Line would quickly become a lot younger when picking up Chris.


  2. #17
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    .
    There's time left, but I like Chris Long. His ability to stop the run that he's displayed for more than one season, speaks to him being a real football player, IMO.

    It seems to me that the run stuffing ability usually is the last thing to develop in college stars with 14 sacks. This guy can stop the run and he did it before ever coming up with those numbers.

    And we better address the Offensive line with subsequent picks! It won't do us much good if we
    don't address the OL in this draft.
    Last edited by Tony Soprano; -01-02-2008 at 05:25 PM.

  3. #18
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    What if the phins decide to take Chris Long and no one wanted to trade up to the 2 spot. Who would you take then. Do you take the best offensive linemen in Jake Long who would be sitting on the bench? Do you reach for Gholston who could make an immediate impact? Or do you take one of the best defensive prospects to come out in while, but he isn't at a position of great need in Glen Dorsey.
    I'd word it as "taking" Gholston and "reaching for" Jake Long.

  4. #19
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by PossumBoy9 View Post
    I'd word it as "taking" Gholston and "reaching for" Jake Long.
    Seriously, did Jake Long lose a bet to you or steal your girlfriend or something?

    Find me one credible (not some fan in his mom's basement) mock that has Gholston going ahead of Jake Long.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  5. #20
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    I'd spend the first 9 minutes and 50 seconds (I believe they've shortened the time to 10 minutes per pick for this year) trying to work out a trade with someone desperate enough to really overpay for the 2nd pick, then I'd take Gholston.

  6. #21
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    If Chris Long is gone, I take Dorsey no questions asked. Glover is not getting younger and Wroten is crap.
    couldn't have phrased it any better myself...

  7. #22
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    dorsey looks better to me than c. long at this point of their football
    careers...collegiate that is...

    c.long looked anemic and slow versus texas tech in their loss several
    days ago...maybe the long lay-off is the reason...c. long
    is no faster than carriker was last year at the personal workouts
    where he ran a 4.8+ at 300 lbs...c. long is supposedly no faster
    at 280+ but more of a cat-quick-twitch defender...which wasn't
    in evidence in the bowl game...

    i still subscribe to the view that draft is meant to increase the
    talent on the team whereas the FA should be taken advantage
    of to fix immediate needs and upgrade weak positions...

  8. #23
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by rampete View Post
    dorsey looks better to me than c. long at this point of their football
    careers...collegiate that is...

    c.long looked anemic and slow versus texas tech in their loss several
    days ago...maybe the long lay-off is the reason...c. long
    is no faster than carriker was last year at the personal workouts
    where he ran a 4.8+ at 300 lbs...c. long is supposedly no faster
    at 280+ but more of a cat-quick-twitch defender...which wasn't
    in evidence in the bowl game...

    i still subscribe to the view that draft is meant to increase the
    talent on the team whereas the FA should be taken advantage
    of to fix immediate needs and upgrade weak positions...
    That is the problem though. To me, to most people, its either Chris Long or Dorsey.

    It all comes down to what the Phins choose. Which ever ones the Phins dont choose, we choose.

    Either one will make an immediate impact for our squad. It's worth one of these two players.

  9. #24
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    For those who think that Long (jake) is a better pick than gholston go to youtube and search Vernon Gholston watch the first video...

  10. #25
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I'd spend the first 9 minutes and 50 seconds (I believe they've shortened the time to 10 minutes per pick for this year) trying to work out a trade with someone desperate enough to really overpay for the 2nd pick, then I'd take Gholston.
    I'd have to agree with you, Avenger.

    Though I believe Dorsey is a better player than Gholston, i think the selection of dorsey would be bound to offset the progress made by Carriker or Ryan in their rookie seasons. Yes, Glover is older, and yes, wroten is crap, but Glover has done well with limited snaps, and Carriker and Ryan were great as rookie starters, and look to be the duo upfront for years to come.

    On the other side, Hall is older, and better suited as a backup, Adeyanju is younger, and better suited as a backup, and Little is older, was injured, and was mediocre before he was hurt. Value outweighs need here, and I think that means that Gholston is the pick.

    Jake long...probably won't go past pick four, but from a need standpoint; Gholston would probably start, and there are issues about where Long would and how long it would take to get him there behind Pace and Barron. Give me Chris Williams in Rd.2 and I think we're set.

  11. #26
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Seriously, did Jake Long lose a bet to you or steal your girlfriend or something?
    What's this about? For merely pointing out that Gholston is a better prospect, IMO.

    Find me one credible (not some fan in his mom's basement) mock that has Gholston going ahead of Jake Long.
    What's credible? I know Scott Wright joined in late on the Gholston bandwagon, which seems to have been started by regular guys.

    The funny thing is, at this point in the season the some of the "guys in the basement" mocks generally tend to be ahead of the curve.

    Also, does where a guy is taken in a mock represent his rank? Mocks generally reflect needs.

  12. #27
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by PossumBoy9 View Post
    Also, does where a guy is taken in a mock represent his rank? Mocks generally reflect needs.
    But wait, isn't your mantra that drafting for need as opposed to grabbing the best available value, is a waste of time?

    Thus, do you find any mock credible at all? Or are all teams heading in the wrong direction by drafting for need?

    I'd say that it's a rough generalisation to say that where a guy is taken in a mock; or a plethora of mocks, doesn't reflect his rank in some sense. You see Darren McFadden going in the top 5 because he is ranked as a top 5 player. You see Dorsey, Long et al. in the top 5 because they are top 5 players!

    Therefore, what you postulate upon is based moreso on personal opinion than wider agreement. No doubt, Gholston is a top 10 prospect, but there's also no doubt (Have a look at as many scouting reports as you will) that Jake Long is the best OT in this class.

    All I'm saying is that not everybody is wrong. You can't discount Gholston's talent, but by that same token, you can't discount Jake Long's, who is a proven, consistent player who just had a geat bowl game. To say he's not the No.1 OT in this class and a legitimate top 5 pick, regardless of whether he projects left, or right is difficult to digest. But that's not a bad thing. At least you're taking a stand. If we all agreed, there'd be nothing to debate.

    Hey, personally, I'm 50/50. I agree that Gholston is a good Prospect, but I don't think I wouldn't hate it if we got Jake Long, either. In essence, I agree Gholston is a good prospect. I don't think he'll wind up going ahead of Jake Long. A lot can change between now and April.
    Last edited by Bar-bq; -01-07-2008 at 02:18 AM.

  13. #28
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    if a "rotation" player is drafted with the second overall pick....Linehan & co better start watching out for mysterious red laser beams!!

  14. #29
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    don't think Carriker @ DE gives us the kind of pass rush we need - suggesting he could get up to 13 sacks a season from the edge is pretty lofty and not very realistic IMO.
    I agree Nick with you here, but how many sacks do you see Chris Long getting? Im not sure he is going to get 13 or even 10. AC could get 6-10 and we know he could play the run really well. Could we get an edge rusher later in the draft to split some time with AC. If we took Dorsey and how many sacks could Dorsey get coming right up the gut?

  15. #30
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    Re: What if Chris long is gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    What if the phins decide to take Chris Long and no one wanted to trade up to the 2 spot. Who would you take then. Do you take the best offensive linemen in Jake Long who would be sitting on the bench? Do you reach for Gholston who could make an immediate impact? Or do you take one of the best defensive prospects to come out in while, but he isn't at a position of great need in Glen Dorsey.

    I am warming up to Dorsey. Say Cariker get down to about 285 (similar to Chris Long). He probably wouldn't be as fast as Long but he could stuff the run just as well or better. His first start at DE he got a sack against ATL. I think he is capable of getting a 7-13 sack season. Dorsey could also provide an interior pass rush (3-8 sacks) and stuff the run by being a presence in the backfield. I think it would help the defense all around

    Little Dorsey Ryan Carriker
    How bout we do this. We draft Jake Long and move Barron to guard. That would be a sick line with Pace.

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