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    txramsfan's Avatar
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    A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    The Chiefs are probably going to move to a 3-4 defense this year. Now, I saw this in the Jim Thomas chat and it made perfect sense to me but I bet it won't to a majority of you. However, as most of you know, I don't care.

    Here's the situation: Trade Carriker for Dorsey. Carriker is out of position in this defesne and Dorsey is a natural 4-3 DT. This would help both teams. If it wasn't for the salary cap issues, I would pull the trigger on this trade quickly. If everyone is raving about Spags and his D expertise, to give him a talent like Dorsey would just be a great thing in my mind.


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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    It does make some sense. How this would happen I don't know. They are trying Dorsey at NT and he doesn't fit there at all. Carriker can fit at UT so this would be interesting.

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Here's what was said in the Jim Thomas chat...

    goldhorns: hi jim,
    Instead of the same questions posted the last few weeks, how about a what if?? I like Carriker but i think he is playing out of position. The KC Chiefs are going to a 3-4. Carriker for Glenn Dorsey.? I think Carriker would be a natural in the 3-4 and we could use a true 4-3 DT. Or if not the chiefs what about a trade for picks or another player from another team?? your thoughts...... thank you

    Jim Thomas: I don't think the Chiefs are ready to give up on Dorsey. Besides, he's too early into his contract, so the cap ramifications probably would make trading him prohibitive.
    I think Thomas' answer sums up why this isn't much of a possibility. Plus, if I'm the Chiefs, even if Dorsey doesn't fit my new defensive scheme very well, I'm not trading him straight up for Carriker.

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Just a thought. Carriker is out of position as far as I am concerned. HUb would disagree but that's ok. It would help Carriker to move to a 3-4 according to all the "experts" on here that say he can't play DE (which I vehemently disagree, I wish he could get a chance).

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Carriker lacks the ammount of outside speed to rush the outside that a DE in a 4-3 would need. In a 3-4, I could see him taking the weak-side DE spot, but not in a 4-3.
    If the Rams ran a 3-4, I could see Carriker taking either NT or DE spot, but I think in our 4-3, he is pretty much where he will be. If we switched to that 3-4 however, I am unsure whether Long would stay in a 3 point, or if he would move back into the linebacker slot.

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Nobody knows about his speed because HE HASN'T DONE IT. Why not give him a shot? What could it hurt? We go 1-15 instead of 2-14? He had to gain the weight to MOVE inside, why can't he lose the weight and move outside? He may gain some speed that way.

    No one knows what Carriker can do outside because no one has given him the chance.
    Last edited by txramsfan; -03-28-2009 at 01:38 PM.

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Is Claude Wroten, if he comes back a factor in our DL? And if so how will he impact the use of Carricker or Ryan?

    Go Rams!

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    All indications are that Wroten won't be back.

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    One thing possibly affecting Carriker's play last year is that he very likely wasn't physically 100%. Shoulder surgery usually requires quite a while to fully rehab. This will be his third year and he should be healthy by now. There is a decent chance he will have a breakout year in spite of having to learn a new system.

    That said, some of you may remember I was hoping the Rams would select Dorsey over Long. They didn't .. Whatever, I was very high on Dorsey either rightly or wrongly. Putting cap issues aside (cause I haven't a clue there), the idea of a straight up trade - Carriker for Dorsey - is intriguing. How Spags and Billy view Carriker is unknown at present, but at least Adam easily fits within the 4 pillar scheme.

    For those of you who say Carriker cannot play end in a 4-3, I agree with Tx - he simply hasn't been given the chance. For the time being however, I am looking forward to seeing how Spags will employ him within the new defensive scheme. I do hope that we are able to find another D-lineman to compete with Carriker and or Ryan thus turniing things up a notch ...

    One more thing .. Anybody know how Dorsey's rookie year went??

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Dorsey led all rookies with 46 tackles. Chris Long was second with 40. Both had solid rookie seasons.

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Nobody knows about his speed because HE HASN'T DONE IT. Why not give him a shot? What could it hurt? We go 1-15 instead of 2-14? He had to gain the weight to MOVE inside, why can't he lose the weight and move outside? He may gain some speed that way.

    No one knows what Carriker can do outside because no one has given him the chance.
    If he hasn't done it, and nobody knows if he can do it (you included presumably) then why do you advocate moving him to DE so much? Because he played DE in college? Under this logic, Brian Urlacher should be moved back to safety, Josh Cribbs should go back to playing QB, Leonard Little should be a LB, etc. Who cares what they played once upon a time. The coaches, who know a lot more about this stuff than most of the people on this board, say this guy's skill set translates best to DT in a 4-3 defense. And if thats what suits him best, then that is where we should play him and let him develop.

    I believe the people who get paid to do this stuff when they say his pass rushing / run stuffing skills are better suited for the inside. Give this kid some good coaching and let him stay healthy for a year and I think the results may make you forget alllllll about moving him to DE.

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Nobody knows about his speed because HE HASN'T DONE IT. Why not give him a shot?
    I'm sure plenty of people know about his speed. I doubt the college personnel people sit there and watch game after game of a prospect just on the off chance they'll get to see the cheerleaders on the sideline. Also, regardless of how much emphasis one places on the combine, those tests do carry some level of significance. People are paid to do the research and to examine these things.

    If your argument is that he should be tried at DE because he hasn't done it and it's worth giving him a shot, why not try him at LB? TE? OL? I mean, he hasn't done it so technically we don't know how he'd do there. At some point, you have to draw the line and base it on something. IMO, the things you base it on are what you see of him, what his strengths are, what his weaknesses are, etc. And those things support him being an inside pass rusher in a 4-3.

    If you want to slide him out to DE on short yardage or obvious run downs so you can squeeze another big tackle on the line of scrimmage, fine. But making a move to DE as his primary position, in my opinion at least, is not going to work out. There are plenty of things you can say we technically don't know until we try it, but many of them are best left untried because we can draw reasonable conclusions about how it'd turn out. IMO, this is one of those situations.

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    Exclamation Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    he should be tried at LDE becuase the rams have great need of stopping the run. Little is our sit. pass rusher-he cant be counted on for every down anymore. Limit his snaps and mabee he can improve on his sack totals. Draft a solid NT and a sit. pass rusher.

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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Well then, based on everything posted above, we can conclude the following about the Rams and live our happy lives;

    1) Steven Jackson should be tried at fullback, and block for another runningback. Because he hasn't tried it yet, and maybe he would do a better job there, as he is the right size/build to play that position.

    2) Chris Long should be tried at Quarterback. We're paying him all sorts of money, and he is going to be one of the foundations on our team for years to come. Let him play where he gets to touch the ball every down. He hasn't done it yet, so how can you say he would be any good. I think having a quarterback in the mid to high 200 lbs category would be a great deterent to linebackers and other defensive ends when trying to bring him down. Plus he still has young legs, and could probably scramble pretty decently, as he is larger than 85% of the players on the field.

    3) Adam Carriker should be moved to OT on the weak side. Because we drafted him in the first round, he is big, and he hasn't tried it yet. Maybe he could fill our offensive line and make our team led by Chris Long more productive on offense. Maybe, because he has experience knowing how the defender will do things (he is/was a defensive lineman) he will have a natural ability to block against those moves.

    4) We should swap the offensive line and defensive line completely. The defensive lineman are meaner, and usually have to put forth more effort. Why not let them defend the quarterback, as they of all people know where he is at all the time. After years of watching the quarterback and never touching them, they can get paid to do this now (and it's a good thing).

    5) Speculation is speculation. That is what this comes down to, and that is all that people care about. All the mock drafts, all the trade rumors. I understand that it is the off-season/pre-season, and so should you all. We have nothing else to talk about, so all this conversation comes up. But really, you think that with stuff like this, the people who make tens and hundreds of millions of dollars a year wouldn't make sure a good fit was a good fit? If someone is more suited for a different position, and the team can afford to get them to that spot, they will be moved to a different position. It gets the team more wins, sells more tickets, makes the team more money, and puts more money into their greedy wallets. They spend millions to make sure these things happen, so us talking about it is probably the least bit beneficial, when they know what they are doing.

    6) Football season is coming, and at this point, my 20 year old 6'3'' 220lb. frame is still working out, and staying in shape. I have currently been training in mixed martial arts (kickboxing, judo, BJJ, and wrestling), and maintaining peak fitness while training with my marine friends whenever they are available. I play rugby durring the spring and summer, and I am a Security Officer by day. There is a new football league coming, and in a couple of years, I intend to either begin try-outs for the Arena Football League (if it exists), or the up and coming AAFL. We will see. Currently clocking my 40 time at around a 4.82, I am hoping to lower than to a 4.75 at least. I don't know if I can get it to that point, but I am trying.

    What have you guys been up to?

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    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: A what if scenario with the Chiefs....

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Web View Post
    Well then, based on everything posted above, we can conclude the following about the Rams and live our happy lives;

    1) Steven Jackson should be tried at fullback, and block for another runningback. Because he hasn't tried it yet, and maybe he would do a better job there, as he is the right size/build to play that position.

    2) Chris Long should be tried at Quarterback. We're paying him all sorts of money, and he is going to be one of the foundations on our team for years to come. Let him play where he gets to touch the ball every down. He hasn't done it yet, so how can you say he would be any good. I think having a quarterback in the mid to high 200 lbs category would be a great deterent to linebackers and other defensive ends when trying to bring him down. Plus he still has young legs, and could probably scramble pretty decently, as he is larger than 85% of the players on the field.

    3) Adam Carriker should be moved to OT on the weak side. Because we drafted him in the first round, he is big, and he hasn't tried it yet. Maybe he could fill our offensive line and make our team led by Chris Long more productive on offense. Maybe, because he has experience knowing how the defender will do things (he is/was a defensive lineman) he will have a natural ability to block against those moves.

    4) We should swap the offensive line and defensive line completely. The defensive lineman are meaner, and usually have to put forth more effort. Why not let them defend the quarterback, as they of all people know where he is at all the time. After years of watching the quarterback and never touching them, they can get paid to do this now (and it's a good thing).

    5) Speculation is speculation. That is what this comes down to, and that is all that people care about. All the mock drafts, all the trade rumors. I understand that it is the off-season/pre-season, and so should you all. We have nothing else to talk about, so all this conversation comes up. But really, you think that with stuff like this, the people who make tens and hundreds of millions of dollars a year wouldn't make sure a good fit was a good fit? If someone is more suited for a different position, and the team can afford to get them to that spot, they will be moved to a different position. It gets the team more wins, sells more tickets, makes the team more money, and puts more money into their greedy wallets. They spend millions to make sure these things happen, so us talking about it is probably the least bit beneficial, when they know what they are doing.

    6) Football season is coming, and at this point, my 20 year old 6'3'' 220lb. frame is still working out, and staying in shape. I have currently been training in mixed martial arts (kickboxing, judo, BJJ, and wrestling), and maintaining peak fitness while training with my marine friends whenever they are available. I play rugby durring the spring and summer, and I am a Security Officer by day. There is a new football league coming, and in a couple of years, I intend to either begin try-outs for the Arena Football League (if it exists), or the up and coming AAFL. We will see. Currently clocking my 40 time at around a 4.82, I am hoping to lower than to a 4.75 at least. I don't know if I can get it to that point, but I am trying.

    What have you guys been up to?

    OH BS A-Web. Carriker played DE in college. I don't care if it was 3-4 or 4-3, it was at DE. Not about your swapping of Dline to Oline. Quit being so condenscending. I was talking about moving a player who had to gain weight to move inside, something he had not played in college.

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