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  1. #1
    npow81's Avatar
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    Where there's a will...there's a....

    Tim Tebow???? Really wait what am I doing

    OK. First off I cannot believe I am saying this. Trust me, I am the absolute last person that I thought would be saying (believe me the LAST).

    I have previously scoffed at any indication that we or anyone else should take Tim Tebow anywhere before the fourth round, basically considering the notion of it proposterous given the bevy of transitional problems that Tebow presents.

    However, I watched some of his interviews at the Senior Bowl, and one thing is so clear it can not be denied, Tebow makes you believe that if there is any possible, conceivable way that he can be a successful NFL qb, that he will do it.

    While this is admirable, it alone, by no means makes you an NFL qb.

    Interviews notwithstanding after the Senior Bowl, I left basically in the same position I was before, and his performance did nothing to disprove my long-standing belief that he was NOT an NFL qb. It just did not seem possible to me that he could discard all his bad habits and limitations in order to be a successful NFL qb.

    However, the recent news that he is diligently trying to transition, and willing to do whatever it takes to change and make those transitions, makes me believe that maybe this whole Tebow as an NFL qb thing might be possible.

    This willingness to change, and unbelievable work ethic is truly unique and separates Tebow from almost everyone before that has been unsuccessful due to transitional problems in that he is willing, and ready to do whatever possible to ensure success, and does not cling to the fact that he was a Heisman winner or that doing what he had been doing his life and been successful thus far.

    Being a man of the law, I'll use a legal reference

    For Clausen and Bradford, most PRESUME they will be successful, and that presumption is attempted to be overcome be positions of doubt. In the end, attempting to overcome the presumption is usually not successful.

    For Tebow, most PRESUME, that he will but unsuccessful, and that presumption is attempted to be overcome by positions, to show he will be successful. In the end, again it is difficult to overcome this position.

    So I guess my point is maybe we shouldn't presume Tebow will be unsuccessful and take and intermediate position that Tebow's transition to the NFL MIGHT be possible, so I return to my previous position, that if it is possible, Tebow might, just might, be able to make it happen.

    In the end, I say we proceed in the following manner

    If Tebow's mechanics, etc. show significant improvement before the draft (and we should bring him in for private workouts as much as possible) we strongly consider taking him at the top of the second.

    If Tebow shows moderate improvement, we strongly consider taking him in the third.

    If only minor improvement, we consider taking him thereafter.

    In the end probably the biggest factor in me entertaining this possibility is that if anyone ever need the overwhelming presence, leadership, and tenacity that Tebow provides, it would be this team.

    ITS a strange, strange world for me to be saying all this, but I guess I will post this despite my strong feeling that the sky might fall if I do, I'm doing it, screw it.
    Last edited by npow81; -02-23-2010 at 06:42 AM.


  2. #2
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    If Tebow does manage to substantially turn around his mechanics before his pro day, it could make a massive difference in his draft position. This could be a big thing because it will show his coachability.

    However, even if he does go to his pro day and show that he can use these new mechanics, that doesnt mean we should draft him. Its easy to stand around on an open field with no defenders, throwing to a constantly open guy, under no pressure from the D. He has spent his entire college career using the mechanics that many have said wont work in the NFL. My question is when he gets pressured, will he be able to still use these new mechanics, or will he revert to his old style when panicked?

  3. #3
    npow81's Avatar
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    That's true, I won't do much defending of my position, as I see and understand any and all doubts.

    The video that came out today was impressive, and seemed to simulate game type pressure, but you're right there's a huge difference between simulation and the real thing.

  4. #4
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    I always get a kick out of these guys who try for an extreme makeover before the draft and won't show people what they've got until the last minute. It's like a kid cramming the night before a final. The Combine is the big stage where all the NFL teams are going to have their top recruiting people, and he's saying he's not ready. He's going to have a lot riding on that pro day.

  5. #5
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    If he can change that indeed shows coachability(imo), and being able to make plays with his legs as well cant hurt him. Id atleast consider him in the 3rd if he shows alot of improvement over this short timespan he has. You have to admit, hes a smart guy and if he can fix some stuff hed be fun to watch.

  6. #6
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    His throwing motion during workouts won't mean diddly.

    His throwing motion when he has a 280 lb. DE about to take his head off is what will matter.

    If he's not a 2nd/3rd round pick right now (and I don't think he is), then he won't be after his Pro Day.

  7. #7
    Ramzee is offline Registered User
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    Apparently you're not the LAST guy.

    However, if everyone was under the presumption that he will undoubtedly fail, he wouldn't get drafted. The question isn't would you draft him but where. Even developmental types have a place in the league and in the draft. It's why we have a guy like Keith Null already. If you're under the presumption he will fail, you don't draft him. If you're the under the presumption that you don't know if he'll succeed or fail, you figure out the worst case scenario for you, round wise, where you'd take that risk and take him if he is still there.

    For me that's not anywhere before our 5b pick. If he was there in the 6th, flawed mechanics or not, I'd let him battle it out with Null or Reilly. I won't touch him before then though.

  8. #8
    Ramzee is offline Registered User
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    His throwing motion during workouts won't mean diddly.

    His throwing motion when he has a 280 lb. DE about to take his head off is what will matter.

    If he's not a 2nd/3rd round pick right now (and I don't think he is), then he won't be after his Pro Day.
    It's muscle memory. So it's going to take as long as it's going to take for his muscles to instinctively go through the new motion. That could be a long time. Right now he's battling an entire lifetime of the flawed muscle memory. That's repetition though. That will come with time if he continues to work on it until it's ingrained.

    What he has to show at the pro day is in fact, progress. That's what teams will want to see and Tebow is capable of making that happen.

  9. #9
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    i would love him to succeed and in another year or two if he came out then i would use a "throwaway pick" on him..say a 4th or 5th rounder..but we arent in the position to use any of our picks as throwaway ones..we could do with having solid picks with every pick to turn this thing around a.s.a.p and we could get a starter with a 4th or 5th pick for next year..not two years time when if it isnt turned around quickly a coach i have a lot of faith in to lead us to a bright future with a new owner..may be out the door by the time Tebow may or may not become starter material..
    good teams get starters in the 5th round or atleast rotational players who contribute..and with Billy D & Spags in charge i think a 4th or 5th is more valuable than in the hands of the previous regime.
    i think this year we could only spare one of our 7th rounders on a player like Tebow and i think someone will take a gamble on him long before then..probably the end of the 3rd- mid 4th range...somebody who can afford the gamble.
    i do wish him well tho..if you love football you gotta love his heart for the game.

  10. #10
    npow81's Avatar
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    Ok Ok Ok, like I said not defending just throwing it out there, all I'm saying in the end is if anyone could do all the things you guys are saying he needs to do it would be him.

    I am NOT saying that he will do it.

  11. #11
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    If Tebow's transformation works, he won't be the one with the most to gain. That will belong to whatever coach he has overseeing the transformation. Because anybody that can take a "college RB who happens to throw the ball every once in a while" in January and turn him into a NFL Quaterback by March will be able to write his own ticket anywhere he wants.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #12
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    Quote Originally Posted by npow81 View Post
    Ok Ok Ok, like I said not defending just throwing it out there, all I'm saying in the end is if anyone could do all the things you guys are saying he needs to do it would be him.

    I am NOT saying that he will do it.
    I don't think anybody here is really trying to criticize your opinion on that. Personally, I just tend to think that if a guy feels he has anything to hide at this point, a few weeks aren't going to make a whole lot of difference. It's not just Tebow. Some guys are trying to prove they can drop down to a certain weight or put on 15 lbs. of muscle or drop into coverage and play linebacker because they're too small to play end in the NFL. I half expect to hear one of these underclassmen put off being measured because he's hoping he'll grow a half inch taller before his pro day.

  13. #13
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    Tim Tebow=wasted draft pick. The Rams are in no position to waste a draft pick. Especially if it is a second rounder. The Rams are in no position to draft a guy who may or may not develop. The Rams need players not what if guys. In my opinion Tebow will suck as an NFL qb. The Rams need to pick players who can contribute right away. Everyone already knows Tebow isnt ready to contribute. People were saying the same thing about Alex Smith who came out of the same offense. Smith was drafted in the 1st round and is still struggling today. Do the Rams really want to wait that long for a qb to develop? I don't think they do, let someone else make the mistake that is Tim Tebow.
    Just Fix It

  14. #14
    Ramzee is offline Registered User
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    I'll make one simple point regarding this:

    These knocks on Tebow do not make a QB. I present to you, a Rams icon: Kurt Warner.

    Carried the ball around his waist. Never threw with better than a 3/4 throwing motion. Never over the top. Often times he threw the ball side arm. Often times had passes knocked down. Also threw off of his back foot a lot.

    If these things make or break your QB, Kurt Warner never could have been successful in this league. The fact is, they don't. Other qualities are much more important when evaluating a QB.

    Just something to chew on.

  15. #15
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Where there's a will...there's a....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramzee View Post
    I'll make one simple point regarding this:

    These knocks on Tebow do not make a QB. I present to you, a Rams icon: Kurt Warner.

    Carried the ball around his waist. Never threw with better than a 3/4 throwing motion. Never over the top. Often times he threw the ball side arm. Often times had passes knocked down. Also threw off of his back foot a lot.

    If these things make or break your QB, Kurt Warner never could have been successful in this league. The fact is, they don't. Other qualities are much more important when evaluating a QB.

    Just something to chew on.
    The mechanics of Tim Tebow and the mechanics of Kurt Warner are in no way similar. And that doesn't even begin to look at the difference in accuracy between those two.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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