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  1. #31
    RockinRam's Avatar
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    Re: Where's our big fat sloppy guy??

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Because you aren't going to out-talent anybody based on the rounds where those players were taken. Maybe you can develop them with time and effort, but there is less of a guarantee than if you had talent to start with. We have a lot of projects out there, and based on our dismal record with projects over multiple coaching staffs, I'd rather we tried to get more talent instead. Talent is the ultimate fail-safe for a team.
    So what you are saying is that you must get a house-hold name for the DT position, but it is okay to pick a project for the QB position?

    Oh, it's okay if we get a project QB and he fails. No problem.

    But we must get a proven DT! Project DTs are no good!


  2. #32
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: Where's our big fat sloppy guy??

    Sometimes (rarely) Peoria says things i agree with, other times( most of the time) he says things that are so off-the-wall and utterly nihilistic that I can't imagine anyone like him running a football team let alone being a fan of any team.

    Peoria, it seems if things go your way we take every other teams good players and let other teams develop players. What you fail to realize every player that comes into the league is a project to some degree and the ones with the most polish typically are high rounders. A team only has so many high round picks/year and another team isn't just going to hand over their best players, you'd run out of trading bait trying to get one or two. You use draft picks to take talented guys that have a chance to develop and you use your caoching to identify this talent and mold it. Its not as simply as trading for every team's talented guys....You don't need "proven" guys at every position and how do you get a guy a chance to "prove" himself he you never give them a chance. As has been said, Clifton, scott, douzable, etc are developing and showed flashes of the players that they can become. Clifton has been in the league 3 years and Scott was a rookie last year, give the damn guys a chance man...

  3. #33
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
    PeoriaRam is offline Registered User
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    Re: Where's our big fat sloppy guy??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Sometimes (rarely) Peoria says things i agree with, other times( most of the time) he says things that are so off-the-wall and utterly nihilistic that I can't imagine anyone like him running a football team let alone being a fan of any team.

    Peoria, it seems if things go your way we take every other teams good players and let other teams develop players.
    Given the franchise's utter inability over multiple coaching staffs to develop all but the most blue chip, can't miss prospects this past decade, you tend to develop the belief that there is something so fundamentally wrong with an organization's player development program that it is utterly uncorrectable. In such a situation, you develop workarounds, such going after other teams' good players.

    What you fail to realize every player that comes into the league is a project to some degree and the ones with the most polish typically are high rounders. A team only has so many high round picks/year and another team isn't just going to hand over their best players, you'd run out of trading bait trying to get one or two.
    Why not? We did that with pretty much every defender who was (ironically) not terrible in the mid-to-late 2000s. Yes you only get one or two first rounders a year, but then you need to maximize talent and fit it in within the overall rebuilding, not let the one pick drive the rest of the draft. Who knows, maybe the Rams told the scouts otherwise, but to be honest, given the scouts' track record, my analysis would be to take the exact opposite of their recommendations.

    You use draft picks to take talented guys that have a chance to develop and you use your caoching to identify this talent and mold it.
    See the above. To say we've had bad luck both at coaching and scouting (identifying) players over the last decade is an understatement. And there is no guarantee that Spagnuolo will be able to get his Ram guys to perform close to the level of his Giant guys. Remember Bobby April? Remember how he is widely considered one of the best special teams coaches in NFL history? Remember how he couldn't do jack diddly with his Ram special teamers? Coaching does no always work.

    Its not as simply as trading for every team's talented guys....You don't need "proven" guys at every position and how do you get a guy a chance to "prove" himself he you never give them a chance.
    Last season was one giant-arse NFL tryout for everyone as far as I'm concerned. Everybody had plenty of opportunity to prove themselves. If you couldn't get major playing time on the Rams or not completely suck when you were out there, I see little hope that you will suddenly change.

    As has been said, Clifton, scott, douzable, etc are developing and showed flashes of the players that they can become. Clifton has been in the league 3 years and Scott was a rookie last year, give the damn guys a chance man...
    I need more than flashes to be excited about a player. Alex Barron can show "flashes" if you buzz his shock collar often enough. Believe it or not, Tony Banks showed "flashes" at various points during his Ram career. Mike Jones' only "flash" was the last play of Super Bowl XXXIV (which explains why he did not survive the post-2000 defensive purge.)

    -------------------------------------

    General point. I am not Nihilistic. I do believe in good talent. The term you are looking for is pessimistic, and the development of this trait is rather understandable when the team has spent the last decade doing the exact opposite of what it takes to build a Super Bowl Champion and has been historically bad over the last 3 years.

  4. #34
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: Where's our big fat sloppy guy??

    Well im not going to get under the delusions that i (or anyone on earth) can sway your opinion, nor do i care to at this point. Your post reeked of one thing. You pinned the errors of the past scouting department and FO on the current regime to prove your invalid point. You said "given the scouts track record'. What scout? Didn't we get a new scouting department in here....

    No 'duh its not guaranteed; just like its no guarantee the world won't end...Name one thing in life that is truly guaranteed. Given the players in question were starting to "get it" at a tough position in the biggest stage in the game, i fail to see how you say "ah hell, lets give up on all of them and trade for other team's players."

    Coaching does not always work, scouting does not always work, trading away your draft picks for players doesn't always work, signing big name FA to come play does not always work, my playstation does not always work, that homeless guy down the street from me NEVER works. Get my point?

    Everything is a gamble, including trading everything for so called proven players who could just as easily sign that fat new deal and tank. Would you prefer we jsut not draft anyone?
    Last edited by Bralidore(RAMMODE); -04-26-2010 at 08:48 PM.

  5. #35
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Where's our big fat sloppy guy??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Well im not going to get under the delusions that i (or anyone on earth) can sway your opinion, nor do i care to at this point. Your post reeked of one thing. You pinned the errors of the past scouting department and FO on the current regime to prove your invalid point. You said "given the scouts track record'. What scout? Didn't we get a new scouting department in here....
    It's not like Devaney was hired by John Shaw or any-oh wait he was. I think our purge may have been a little more limited than some think it was.

  6. #36
    The Optimistic Lamb Guest

    Re: Where's our big fat sloppy guy??

    Anyone think John Henderson could be an option for us at DT? Some feel he could be very productive in a 4-3 rotation. Or is one fat veteran enough?

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