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  1. #1
    Richbert88's Avatar
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    Why take an OT early?

    Barron is here for at least one more year. I honestly believe Pace has at least one more year, maybe two depending on contract and health. So even though OL is a big issue, I think the largest part of that issue is at C. That is an early draft, or more likely FA type fix.

    I pose this question because there seems to be a very deep pool of OT potential in this draft. I personally like Boone in the 3-4 range, see below. Watkins and Parrish also look decent.

    This depth, IMO, frees up those early picks for a possible Curry & Brace type of one-two punch. Which in my opinion, again, helps reinforce our DL picks and fortifies against the 'bust' type of situation for not have enough talent around them. Add a Jasper Brinkley ILB in the 4-5 range and you've just added a side of juicey prawns to a delicious ribeye.

    Thoughts?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    the following is from Walterfootball.com

    Alex Boone, Ohio State
    Height: 6-8. Weight: 314.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.23.
    Projected Round (2009): 3-4.
    1/6/09: Despite a down year, Alex Boone was voted to the All-Big Ten First Team. I'd say that's more of an indictment on the conference than anything.

    11/1/08: Not a very good season for Alex Boone, though problems on the rest of Ohio State's front can attribute to that.

    5/24/08: Versatile enough to play both tackle positions. I was happy to see Alex Boone, a member of the All-Big Ten second team, come back for his senior campaign.

    2007: Stricken with knee injuries last year. Another junior who should wait until 2009.


    Augustus Parrish, Kent State
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 308.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.13.
    Projected Round (2009): 4.
    11/1/08: One of the more athletic linemen in the country, Augustus Parrish has vastly improved every year.

    5/24/08: A quick offensive tackle and an effective run-blocker, Augustus Parrish is a two-year starter and a member of the All-MAC second team.


    Xavier Fulton, Illinois
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 301.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.95.
    Projected Round (2009): 4.
    1/6/09: Xavier Fulton had shoulder problems in 2008. Bad timing for this All-Big Ten Second Team member.

    5/24/08: For a guy coming off a season-ending knee injury, Xavier Fulton played pretty well in 2007. A former defensive lineman, Fulton's athleticism will make him a good fit in a zone-blocking scheme.


    Jason Watkins, Florida
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 317.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.21.
    Projected Round (2009): 4-5.
    1/6/09: Thanks to rough competition, Jason Watkins was just an All-SEC honorable mention.

    11/1/08: Jason Watkins may be the best lineman Florida has, but the offensive front has really struggled this year.

    5/24/08: Florida's starting left tackle for every game in 2007. Another former tight end on this list.






    Joel Bell, Furman
    Height: 6-7. Weight: 317.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.13.
    Projected Round (2009): 5.
    1/6/09: An All-SoCon first-teamer, Joel Bell started 36 games at left tackle for Furman.

    5/24/08: Despite missing a start, Joel Bell was a member of the All-SoCon first team.


    Andrew Gardner, Georgia Tech
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 298.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.18.
    Projected Round (2009): 5.
    1/6/09: Despite suffering a torn labrum in early November, Andrew Gardner was voted to the All-ACC First Team.

    5/24/08: Andrew Gardner is a very solid run-blocker who sparked Tashard Choice the past few years. He has 39 collegiate starts entering 2008.

    2007: Andrew Gardner has started every game for the Yellow Jackets the past two years. A bit light for a tackle, but his skills make up for that.


    Selvish Capers, West Virginia
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 291.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.92.
    Projected Round (2009): 5-6.
    11/1/08: Perfect for the zone-blocking scheme, Selvish Capers' athleticism will turn some heads at the Combine.


    Garrett Reynolds, North Carolina
    Height: 6-7. Weight: 310.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.23.
    Projected Round (2009): 5-6.
    1/6/09: Qualified for the All-ACC Second Team. He hasn't missed a start in 26 games.

    5/24/08: Garrett Reynolds was a first-year starter in 2007 (he started half the year in 2006). A right tackle.
    Last edited by Richbert88; -02-04-2009 at 01:01 AM.

    Semper Fi!

  2. #2
    C-Mob 71's Avatar
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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Because Marc Bulger has been sacked 191 times since 2004.

  3. #3
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    When you have the ability to address your team's biggest long-term need with a player of elite talent, it's kind of hard to pass that up. There are as many as three if not four prospects viewed among the top fifteen players in this class. You can make the case that two of them are viewed as top five picks, three or even four as top ten depending on who you talk to.

    Ultimately it will depend on how the Rams grade the tackles at the top of this draft class, but OT is certainly a big long-term need. The fact that Pace and Barron should be on this team in 2009 doesn't change that. Pace's future is in the short term, and Barron will be in a contract year and (hopefully) not retained. And let's remember, we're trying to replace Orlando Pace. Those are tough shoes to fill.

    It's conceivable that in 2010, we'll need two new starting OTs. Being able to get one of the most physically talented ones right now and allowing him to develop behind Pace to eventually take over for him would be advantageous to say the least.

    Looking for someone in the mid rounds could result in an eventual effective starter if we're lucky and things work out. But the later you get in the draft, the harder it is to find those gems. Consider that of the 32 starting left tackles in the NFL, only four were found after the third round. Trust me, I've done the breakdown. Over half of the league's starting left tackles (18 to be exact) were drafted in the first round, and 14 of them were taken in the top fifteen. This isn't a coincidence; to really be the best of the best at OT, you need an incredible combination of size, strength, athleticism, toughness, and consistency. Generally, players that display those characteristics rise up the charts rather than sink into the mid rounds.

    As for the mid round tackles you listed, some of them have some physical skill but most are going to be projects because of technique issues, strength issues, or consistency issues. Right now though, I'm saying no way on Alex Boone. The guy was just arrested in California on Sunday after jumping on car hoods, yanking on a tow truck cable, and trying to break a window. Described as intoxicated, combative, and uncooperative, and had to be taken down with a Taser. No thanks.

    But again, just getting back to my point, the trend seems to be that the true quality starting left tackles in this league are coming from the first two rounds, where physical skills and athletic ability are high. If you're taking a shot at a mid or late round project, odds are you're not going to get that book end blind side protector.

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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    I hope we sign a goot OT in free agency and then draft OT come round 2. I don't think there is any Lineman out there worth the number 2 pick.

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    Richbert88's Avatar
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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Thanks Nick,

    I was also thinking of AZs OL regarding that, After all, they went to the superbowl. After your post I checked out their OL <not that I wouldn't trust your post>. No probowlers, Gandy, Wells, Sendlein, Lutui, Brown. Those are 3rd, 6th, UDFA, 2nd & 1st <#5 overall) respectively.

    Now, thinking of the kind of offense I "think" might be Spag's direction, I thought of Tenn. Roos, Amano, Mawae, Scott Stewart. 2nd, 7th, 2nd, 5th & 4th round picks respectively. Roos and Mawae being probowlers this season.

    What does this mean to me. It's possible to run what I think will be Spag's offense without a first round pick at OT. My earlier premise is delusional, but I do think the RAMs can possibly do without a top five tackle. But that might be delusional too.
    Last edited by Richbert88; -02-04-2009 at 11:53 AM.
    Semper Fi!

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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Unless the Rams could somehow steal Jordan Gross, I think they pretty much have to address the OT spot in the first two rounds.

  7. #7
    Chase the Eagles Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    hey, new to the site...I'm an Eagles fan and I'm just interested in talking about the draft with fans of other teams...I think that I can give you some insight considering that Spags was mentored by our defensive coordinator Jim Johnson while coaching our linebackers and then taking our defense to New York...Pat Shurmur your offensive coordinator was quarterbacks coach and was mentored by Andy Reid...So I'm thinking that what you guys do personnel-wise would be similar to the kinda things we would if we owned the same pick and were in the same situation...

    Reid's philosophy is that the success of your team starts in the trenches with the offensive and defensive lines...your right, Alex Barron and Orlando Pace both might have another year left...but Richie Incognito is a free agent and if get a guy like Andre Smith or Eugene Monroe they can start at guard for you...much like we did with Shawn Andrews who was drafted as a tackle and now start at right guard...and Todd Herremans who was drafted as a tackle and now starts at left guard.

    Reid and Heckertt (our general manager) put alot of stock and money into the offensive and defenisve lines...cornerback and quarterback...I would assume those would be the areas Spags and company will look at as well.

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    Dominating D's Avatar
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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase the Eagles Fan View Post
    hey, new to the site...I'm an Eagles fan and I'm just interested in talking about the draft with fans of other teams...I think that I can give you some insight considering that Spags was mentored by our defensive coordinator Jim Johnson while coaching our linebackers and then taking our defense to New York...Pat Shurmur your offensive coordinator was quarterbacks coach and was mentored by Andy Reid...So I'm thinking that what you guys do personnel-wise would be similar to the kinda things we would if we owned the same pick and were in the same situation...

    Reid's philosophy is that the success of your team starts in the trenches with the offensive and defensive lines...your right, Alex Barron and Orlando Pace both might have another year left...but Richie Incognito is a free agent and if get a guy like Andre Smith or Eugene Monroe they can start at guard for you...much like we did with Shawn Andrews who was drafted as a tackle and now start at right guard...and Todd Herremans who was drafted as a tackle and now starts at left guard.

    Reid and Heckertt (our general manager) put alot of stock and money into the offensive and defenisve lines...cornerback and quarterback...I would assume those would be the areas Spags and company will look at as well.
    Not sure drafting the 2nd overall pick paying him big money and then starting him at Guard makes since to me. I agree with the trenches philosophy and it makes alot of sense. However, when Reid and complany had high 1st round picks I do not remember them using it on the Offensive Line? I believe most of his high picks were used on playmakers like McNabb.

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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    We never really had a high pick that the one you guys have since 1999 when we selected Donovan...

    Some of the higher picks that we've had like Top 20 or so were spent on guys like Brodrick Bunkley (defensive tackle), Lito Sheppard (cornerback), Jerome McDougle (defensive end) and Shawn Andrews (guard).

    I'm not saying that whatever lineman you pick that guard will be his final destination but with Barron and Pace still being on the roster you could find the rookie playing inside for his rookie year...that's all...just to get him on the field and get his feet wet...we've done it in the past with tackle prospects...hell, we're doing it now.

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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase the Eagles Fan View Post
    We never really had a high pick that the one you guys have since 1999 when we selected Donovan...

    Some of the higher picks that we've had like Top 20 or so were spent on guys like Brodrick Bunkley (defensive tackle), Lito Sheppard (cornerback), Jerome McDougle (defensive end) and Shawn Andrews (guard).

    I'm not saying that whatever lineman you pick that guard will be his final destination but with Barron and Pace still being on the roster you could find the rookie playing inside for his rookie year...that's all...just to get him on the field and get his feet wet...we've done it in the past with tackle prospects...hell, we're doing it now.
    I understand. But the 2nd overall pick demands so much money versus picking a guy in the bottom half of the 1st round. So you can easily move a guy like that to guard. Moving the second overall pick to GUARD is not cap friendly and do not forget the hype the guy will get and the move will send a statement that the guy is a bust cause he could not beat out the struggling Barron or the old man Pace.

    Just do not see it IMHO.......

  11. #11
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richbert88 View Post
    Thanks Nick,

    I was also thinking of AZs OL regarding that, After all, they went to the superbowl. After your post I checked out their OL <not that I wouldn't trust your post>. No probowlers, Gandy, Wells, Sendlein, Lutui, Brown. Those are 3rd, 6th, UDFA, 2nd & 1st <#5 overall) respectively.

    Now, thinking of the kind of offense I "think" might be Spag's direction, I thought of Tenn. Roos, Amano, Mawae, Scott Stewart. 2nd, 7th, 2nd, 5th & 4th round picks respectively. Roos and Mawae being probowlers this season.

    What does this mean to me. It's possible to run what I think will be Spag's offense without a first round pick at OT. My earlier premise is delusional, but I do think the RAMs can possibly do without a top five tackle. But that might be delusional too.
    Yes, the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl. But before we think about using them as the model for success, let's not forget this was a team that finished the regular season one win above .500, had a losing record outside of the division, and had the league's worst run offense. The light came on in the post-season for the Cardinals, specifically on defense, but it's important to keep the whole picture in perspective here.

    Look, I understand that you can look around the league and point to offense lines that don't have a first round pick at LT. When I did the numbers, 18 teams in the league had first round picks playing left tackle, which means 14 teams don't. But over half of those remaining fourteen teams are using second round picks at LT.

    Only six teams in the NFL (seven if you count John St. Clair in Chicago, but his days are numbered with first round pick Chris Williams as the Bears' LT of the future) are starting a left tackle that was not taken in the first two rounds of the draft. So we're talking 56% of left tackles in this league coming from the first round, and 81% of them coming in the first two rounds.

    So yes, it's possible that a team doesn't have to spend a first round pick on a left tackle. But if they don't turn around and then spend a second round pick on one, then they're really fighting the odds based on how the rest of the league looks right now.

    If the Rams want to spend their first round pick on something else - Crabtree, Jenkins, Curry - I can get behind it. I like all of those guys and how they'd each fit on this team. But unless this team makes a big splash in free agency by nabbing a tackle, and I personally don't think that's likely at all, then they'd better be prepared to use that second round pick on the position. Maybe even trade up if there's a run like last year.

    Because finding an heir to Pace's throne is a big priority, and it's one that in my opinion should not be put off into the mid rounds of this draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase the Eagles Fan View Post
    Reid's philosophy is that the success of your team starts in the trenches with the offensive and defensive lines...your right, Alex Barron and Orlando Pace both might have another year left...but Richie Incognito is a free agent and if get a guy like Andre Smith or Eugene Monroe they can start at guard for you...much like we did with Shawn Andrews who was drafted as a tackle and now start at right guard...and Todd Herremans who was drafted as a tackle and now starts at left guard.
    Thanks for your input, Chase! Unfortunately, with the second overall pick, I don't think the Rams can draft a guy and move him to guard for the long haul like the Eagles did with Andrews Herremans. With the second overall pick, if you go OL, you need a franchise tackle for the next decade. Maybe he spends a year at guard to get acclimated to the next level, but he'd better be kicking out to tackle sooner rather than later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    However, when Reid and complany had high 1st round picks I do not remember them using it on the Offensive Line? I believe most of his high picks were used on playmakers like McNabb.
    In his time as a head coach, Reid has made four selections in the top fifteen. One of them was McNabb; the other three were defensive linemen.

  12. #12
    Chase the Eagles Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Well if Barron is struggling move him inside and start your rookie...

    I mean honestly if a left tackle of the future isn't worth the pick and there is no stud, sure-thing quarterback in the draft this year...you have leonard little and just spent a 2nd overall pick on Chris Long...so are you going to go Orakpo? I don't think so...Crabtree is an awesome prospect will do well in a West Coast Offense but after being the second worst team two years in a row is Crabtree really going to do anything? you'll be paying him over 10 mil a year and by the time you get a quarterback that can throw the ball to him and an offensive line that can keep him upright, Crabtree's rookie contract will expire and you'll have to pay him even more to keep him there...

    The Detroit Lions spent a 3rd overall pick on perhaps the greatest wide receiver prospect you will ever see (6'4" 230 lbs. 4.3 40 yard dash...unbelievable) and the following year his team doesn't win a game...

    I mean your a fan of team that selected Orlando Pace in 1997 first overall and would have selected Jake Long first overall last year if the Dolphins didn't...Bill Parcells, an architect for rebuilding franchises, spent his first overall pick last year on a tackle...it's a guy that will be on your team for the next 10 or more years...

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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase the Eagles Fan View Post
    Well if Barron is struggling move him inside and start your rookie...

    I mean honestly if a left tackle of the future isn't worth the pick and there is no stud, sure-thing quarterback in the draft this year...you have leonard little and just spent a 2nd overall pick on Chris Long...so are you going to go Orakpo? I don't think so...Crabtree is an awesome prospect will do well in a West Coast Offense but after being the second worst team two years in a row is Crabtree really going to do anything? you'll be paying him over 10 mil a year and by the time you get a quarterback that can throw the ball to him and an offensive line that can keep him upright, Crabtree's rookie contract will expire and you'll have to pay him even more to keep him there...

    The Detroit Lions spent a 3rd overall pick on perhaps the greatest wide receiver prospect you will ever see (6'4" 230 lbs. 4.3 40 yard dash...unbelievable) and the following year his team doesn't win a game...

    I mean your a fan of team that selected Orlando Pace in 1997 first overall and would have selected Jake Long first overall last year if the Dolphins didn't...Bill Parcells, an architect for rebuilding franchises, spent his first overall pick last year on a tackle...it's a guy that will be on your team for the next 10 or more years...
    I have no problem selecting an Offensive Tackle with the 2nd overall pick if you have a Tackle that is worthy of the selection. Last I looked I did not see anything close to Orlando Pace in this draft? So, which of the three is worth the 2nd overall pick? Let me give you a hint NONE OF THE ABOVE.....

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    Chase the Eagles Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    I GUARANTEE you no matter what Top 100 list or Top 25 or Top 50 overall list you look at...ATLEAST one of those tackles will be listed in the Top 5.

    Here I'll help you out....

    *NFLDRAFTCOUNTDOWN.com

    #3 Eugene Monroe

    *FOOTBALLSFUTURE.com

    #3 Jason Smith
    #4 Andre Smith

    *NEWERASCOUTING.com

    #2 Michael Oher

    *NATIONALFOOTBALLPOST.com

    #2 Eugene Monroe

    *KFFL.com

    #3 Eugene Monroe

    *WALTERFOOTBALL.com

    They don't have an overall rankings list but they consider Andre Smith and Eugene Monroe to be Top 6 prospects.

    *NFLWEEKLYREPORT.com

    #3 Andre Smith
    #5 Eugene Monroe

    *PROFOOTBALLWEEKLY.com

    #3 Eugene Monroe
    #4 Jason Smith
    Last edited by Nick; -02-04-2009 at 01:18 PM. Reason: No links

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    Re: Why take an OT early?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase the Eagles Fan View Post
    I GUARANTEE you no matter what Top 100 list or Top 25 or Top 50 overall list you look at...ATLEAST one of those tackles will be listed in the Top 5.

    Here I'll help you out....

    *NFLDRAFTCOUNTDOWN.com

    #3 Eugene Monroe

    *FOOTBALLSFUTURE.com

    #3 Jason Smith
    #4 Andre Smith

    *NEWERASCOUTING.com

    #2 Michael Oher

    *NATIONALFOOTBALLPOST.com

    #2 Eugene Monroe

    *KFFL.com

    #3 Eugene Monroe

    *WALTERFOOTBALL.com

    They don't have an overall rankings list but they consider Andre Smith and Eugene Monroe to be Top 6 prospects.

    *NFLWEEKLYREPORT.com

    #3 Andre Smith
    #5 Eugene Monroe

    *PROFOOTBALLWEEKLY.com

    #3 Eugene Monroe
    #4 Jason Smith
    What is your point.

    Do your trust these sites? Would you be happy if your team selected a player because profootball weekly ranked the player high?

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