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Thread: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    After two years here, and also taking into account the guy Snead learned under in Atlanta, and the Fisher years in Tennessee, these two have enough historical evidence to get a good idea of what they will do this year. Lets go over them.

    1. If anyone thinks "Trader Les" is gonna stay put at 2 and 13 and 44, with lots of later picks to use even before acquiring more high ones, and with his pal in Atlanta sitting there at #6 among other suitors for the # 2, they are ignoring a clear history of moving around.

    2. Snead and Fisher like players with top upside, and kind of ignore off field stuff if it is relatively minor and/or long passed. I wouldn't look for safe type picks anywhere if a top ceiling player is on the board that fits need.

    3. Snead and Fisher do value need a lot, even early.

    4. Snead is not averse to accepting future high draft picks as part of a trade over even better offers as far as this year's picks, as he did with the RGIII trade that got all this fun started.

    5. Snead likes trading down far more than moving up, and with the value in the top three rounds this year, he may pass on a top tier guy and deal down for an extra top 40.

    6. The guys the Rams worked out personally will be guys they draft unless they are gone, and a great workout, especially after a top All-Star and Combine season can impress the Rams enough to go for them high, as they did for Quick.

    7. As far as "skill" positions, Both have been willing to go for a receiver in round one, though not top 10. Fisher took Kenny Britt and Kevin Dyson Ironically(over Randy Moss, maybe the one time he DID take character into account) Snead even dealt up for a receiver last year, with Fisher's blessing, and he was in Atlanta when they took Roddy White and traded up for Julio Jones.

    8. Atlanta took a QB early, as did Fisher with McNair and later Vince Young, though it was believed that Fisher wasn't that high on Young. However, these guys would really look like liars if they pulled the rug on Bradford with a Manziel pick. If Bradford is there at 13, and a team REALLY wants to move up to get him, Snead will be in business.

    9. In Tennessee, Fisher took lots of DBs in round one, and also DL. He also likes really gifted linebackers, A LOT. Apparently Fisher had set his mind on Alec Ogletree very early in the draft game, as he did with Keith Bullock in 2000. Snead's mentor, Thomas Demitroff, also likes drafting fast, physical linebackers and defensive linemen first.

    10. Neither Snead nor Fisher seems to like drafting OL in round one, but the Rams situation, PLUS having an extra high pick, could, and probably will alter that philosophy this time.

    11. As far as receivers, the Rams guys mostly like ones who had the top numbers in college, but also like them young, with great measurables and with big upside.

    12. Though they occasionally go after a small college guy early, look for them to stick mostly to the big conferences, especially the SEC this time around. Unless of course they really fall in love with Khalil Mack.
    Last edited by Barry Waller; -05-04-2014 at 04:17 PM.

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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    Well given this history, my hopes are that we select Jake Matthews and Aaron Donald, after a trade down with presumably Atlanta thus yielding another pick in either the second or third round of this year's draft. Thereby enabling us to select Jason Verritt and Deonne Bucannon in round 2, assuming we get Atlanta's 2nd round pick. I'll take it in a heartbeat.

    Go Rams!
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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    Nice list Barry. Good read. One thing though, you say Snead likes to move down more than up, and I believe that is generally true, but then you also say neither Snead or Fisher is willing to take a WR in the top 10, and then go on to talk about how we moved up to pick a WR in the top 10, and Atlanta also did it when Snead was there, moving way way up for Jones. Also don't forget that they seemed like they were going to take Blackmon top 10, considering Fisher's reaction to the Jags taking him.

    I guess I just don't follow you saying they don't take WRs in the top 10 when they do. White was 27th overall, but Jones was 6th and Austin 8th. I think the real question is would they use a top 10 pick on a WR two years in a row? My guess would be if they love Watkins, they wouldn't be afraid to pull the trigger just because they drafted Austin last year.

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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    Good points berg8309, but wouldn't Mike Evans fill a greater need than Watkins given his size and Quick's inability thus far to excel? Based on a potential trade we may be in position to take Evans while simultaneously adding a pick in a later round. Either way we come out ahead.

    Go Rams!

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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    1. Agreed. I think they move out of at least one of those spots. More wouldn't surprise me. The only problem is, it takes a team willing to move up. I like the Falcons as a partner to move up to #2, but it's important to remember that other teams recognize the value of picks in this class as well.

    2. True, and you wonder if that plays into their evaluation of Robinson vs. Matthews. Though I believe Matthews' athleticism and upside is underrated by most, it's obviously not on Robinson's level in that regard. The problem with that strategy is that you likely open yourself up to slightly more risk because you're banking on the player reaching that upside. We're still waiting on Quick to become even a glimpse of what his "upside" says he could be.

    3. Agreed. I think you could argue that many of their picks were need-based. We havent' seen, IMO, a Day 1 or 2 true BPA non-need pick.

    4. True. I wouldn't mind another one in a trade down this time, either. I'm getting spoiled with two first rounders a year.

    5. Maybe, but at some point, the Rams need quality over quantity.

    6. Agreed.

    7. "Both have been willing to go for a receiver in round one, though not top 10." They just went for a receiver in the Top 10 last year...

    8. I agree; I don't think they're being duplicitous in their praise of Bradford and stated desire to extend him. But I think they may consider it next year if Bradford doesn't completely close the book on being this team's answer at QB in 2014.

    9. Interesting insight!

    10. It also helps when you have a former first round pick on your roster for quite a while, as Fisher did in Tennessee.

    11. Which takes us back to the Quick example, as the "big upside" can sometimes not work out.

    12. That probably applies to most teams, I would think. Is there a GM/coach in the league who makes it a habit to go after small school guys early and often? I'd think most fall into the "stick to big conferences unless a small school guy wows us" category.

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    I was referring to Fisher's history in Tennessee, as far as a WR top 10. Last year was the first for him to go WR that early, and it clearly was a Snead/Demoff preferred pick.
    Barry Waller

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    I think the past allows us to know exactly what they will do, unless they decide to do something different.
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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    Some trends I think are worth mentioning. Type of player a team prefers generally based on scheme and fit. Good to see that and useful. Where a team looks could be a good trend to follow. Do they look at small schools? Do they tend to have a conference bias(My def would be picking someone from a known conference rather then another player of the same position with possibly higher degree of attractiveness in a lesser known conference possibly based on geography)? Other pts though...

    Historic generalities can be considered, but unless the team is screwing the pooch on each and every draft I don't see how a team can have repeatable measures on going after a position year after year.

    One draft a team selects players to meet needs and get more athletic, moving up or down to get said players, or if lucky staying put. Following year other team needs come to the forefront with different needs that need to be (hopefully) fulfilled. Again if the player is not quite on target with pick move up or down.

    Unless a team has position players that have the same luck as drummers from Spinal Tap then its going to change from year to year.

    Lots of other variables too. Copy cat league so who won the previous year and what made them successful? What position does a particular draft look strong in? Is a team rebuilding needing lots of players and therefore making many trades to bolster picks, or are they fairly successful and content to stay in place as long as their players are there? Maybe a coach/GM's LBs has been rock solid for a long time and any newly found weakness happened to be filled through FA therefore never needing to use high picks on it. That could be why they never use a first on a linebacker, maybe not. Where is the team picking this year as opposed to last?

    The human mind/brain is beautifully designed to find order and pattern through chaos and anarchy. It is pretty amazing. Barry was able to do that. Sometimes it's effective and useful; sometimes it's seeing a religious figure in a pile of swept dirt. Either way entertaining and hopefully informative. Good Job Barry.

    Now if you will excuse me I think I just saw Jack Youngblood in my spaghetti!!!

    PS. Long winded way of saying I agree with AvR :-)

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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mde8352gorams View Post
    Good points berg8309, but wouldn't Mike Evans fill a greater need than Watkins given his size and Quick's inability thus far to excel? Based on a potential trade we may be in position to take Evans while simultaneously adding a pick in a later round. Either way we come out ahead.

    Go Rams!
    It's true Watkins doesn't have the size that Evans has, and that seems pretty sought after in the NFL today. However, you don't have to be 6'4" or taller to be a #1. Holt and Bruce weren't, and even though the NFL has changed a bit since they were in the league, I'm still quite certain they'd both be very successful today. I'm not entirely sold on Watkins yet, but a #1 type guy would always be preferable over a possession tall receiver to me.

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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    I was referring to Fisher's history in Tennessee, as far as a WR top 10. Last year was the first for him to go WR that early, and it clearly was a Snead/Demoff preferred pick.
    What about Blackmon? Fisher seemed pretty upset when he went off the board before the Rams pick, which was at that point still in the top 10. Also I only count three top ten picks for Fisher in Tennessee and he picked two QBs and a DB. Not much history to go on there. Then again, if a coach has a long history of top 10 picks, he probably shouldn't be coaching much longer.

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    Re: Will Snead/Fisher Track Record Be Repeated On Draft Day ?

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    It's true Watkins doesn't have the size that Evans has, and that seems pretty sought after in the NFL today. However, you don't have to be 6'4" or taller to be a #1. Holt and Bruce weren't, and even though the NFL has changed a bit since they were in the league, I'm still quite certain they'd both be very successful today. I'm not entirely sold on Watkins yet, but a #1 type guy would always be preferable over a possession tall receiver to me.
    You are right things have changed a bit since Ike and Torry, but it is largely that the CB's are bigger, which enhances Evans value due to his size. But I have been a loyal Charley Casserly fan and his advice is focus on speed not size. Makes sense.

    This AM I saw Tod McShay's final mock and he has us taking Odell Beckham at #13. After looking into this, I can't say I disagree that it would be a good pick for us. That a first for me with McShay. The grading dropoff from Evans is not that great, although he's significantly smaller. He's got good hands and can run well after the catch and has experience at KO & punt returns. Casserly calls him a faster Michael Crabtree. While I hate to benchmark the ***** at anything I know they would love to trade-up for him, so while you cannot select against other teams I'd love to steal their thunder.

    Go Rams!

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