THIS WOULD BE GREAT: Giants might be releasing Robins DT

[39thebeast]

You saying he is not that good is ignoring everything players, coaches, and media have said about him. The three articles from last year thought highly of him and there are many more. No one is saying he is a great player but he is a better DT at this point then anyone we have on our roster.

No I am not ignoring any fact if I was ignoring it this post would not exist you are the one that’s ignoring the facts before the season started players on the team were commenting about him playing at his best ever level. Then Tuck during the season said he was the best DL at the beginning of the season. He got injured and played partially injured last year he had a minor knee scope this off-season that cleaned it up. The guys salary is only 2mil that’s it. He is not a high priced signing and he knows Spags system. As for him getting 5.5 cheap sacks as you say that ridiculous why didn't Tuck have as many sacks then. He had 5.5 sacks in first 6 games but that’s not even the most important factor. What is important is he collapses the pocket and stuffs the run. I guarantee if he is released Spags will try to sign him. As for NT's there are more teams going without a true NT then there are teams going with a true NT. You don’t have to have a true NT to have a good DL. I know several NY area residents that are Ram fans and they are all saying we should run to sign this guy if released. Now I am not saying he is a savior or anything but all his teammates last year had nothing but good things to say about Robbins and the players brought up his play not the media.

What are his teamates supposed to say about him bad things. You said when you have good d-line you don't need a true NT. Since when did we get a good D-line. We need a NT to take up blocks and make our young developing Lineman better

[RamsSB99]

What are his teamates supposed to say about him bad things.

Well seeing how they were not asked about the DL and not asked about Robbins but his name is what the players brought up as the topic I think that speaks volumes for his play. I have showed you several things that point to him being a good player.
Question:
Can you show me one thing prior to his injury (Before game 6 last year) that says he is not a good player?

You said when you have good d-line you don't need a true NT. Since when did we get a good D-line.

Here is what I said:
You don’t have to have a true NT to have a good DL. There are several teams without a true NT that have a good DL. I never said we had a good DL what I was saying is it dont take a true NT for a team to have a good DL. I think with the addition of Robbins we have the potential to have a good DL. The reason I say potential is he is the only proven player. Carriker is bouncing back from injury and has not fully established himself yet, Long has yet to show his potential (I believe he will), and an aging Little needs to hold together for one more year.

One little nugget for you Fred Robbins was the biggest DL the Giants had last year and they still had a good DL.


Robbins 6'4 317

Thier two NT's
Coefield 6'4 306
Alford 6'3 304

We need a NT to take up blocks and make our young developing Lineman better

Okay I will ask you these questions one more time.

Question 1:
What player do you have in mind that is at least 325 lbs like you said, fits within the budget, and is younger then Robbins? Please name names.

Question 2:
How many teams have a true NT thats 325 or bigger and younger then Robbins like you said?

Question 3: (new)
Are you opposed to getting this guy for 2mil or less cap hit? His salary this year is 2mil. If we traded with them it would be even less then that.



This could all be a moot point though because there is talk about them keeping him now and trading other DL according to some other reports.

[tonyray05]

He would be a good pickup (if on the low end of the pay scale), would help Carriker out and be someone we haven't had in a long time a true NT.

[39thebeast]

Question 1
Some guys we could draft are Ron Brace, Chris Baker, and Samie Lee Hill all definately won't cost 2mil, they are big and will take up blocks.

Question 2
Seahawks Colin Cole, Browns Shaun Rodgers, Jets Kris Jenkins, Cardinals Gabe Watson, Jags John Henderson, Patriots Vince Wilfork, Redskins Albert Haynesworth, Raiders Gerard Warren, Steelers Casey Hampton , Chargers Jamal Williams (same age), Panthers Make Kemeotou, Packers Ryan Pickett, Ravens Haloti Ngata, Bengals Domata Peko, and San Francisco Abreyu Franklin. If you count the old guys thats more than half of the league, so I really don't get your point

Question 3
Don't mind the Cap hit, but I do mind his age

[RamsSB99]

Question 1
Some guys we could draft are Ron Brace, Chris Baker, and Samie Lee Hill all definately won't cost 2mil, they are big and will take up blocks.

I do like Brace (2nd round) and Hill (5th round) but neither one is an accomplished NFL tackle. Hill might take some developing as a NT because of small school Stillman and did not play NT more UT and DE. Chris Baker is only 6'2 310 and he dont fit the 4 pillars several off the field problems. Brace should be able to be a run stoper but will get zero penetration and how much was he helped playing next to Raji in college? If we take Brace in the second then we will still have other needs that went unfilled. I would be all for that if we cant get a DT via free agency but my preference would be to get a vet to go with our young guys as a patch this year. I was looking more for you to give me one established NFL NT that fit your criteria younger then Robbins with a similar cap hit as Robbins and I don't see one out there.

Question 2
Seahawks Colin Cole, Browns Shaun Rodgers, Jets Kris Jenkins, Cardinals Gabe Watson, Jags John Henderson, Patriots Vince Wilfork, Redskins Albert Haynesworth, Raiders Gerard Warren, Steelers Casey Hampton , Chargers Jamal Williams (same age), Panthers Make Kemeotou, Packers Ryan Pickett, Ravens Haloti Ngata, Bengals Domata Peko, and San Francisco Abreyu Franklin (6'1 317).

So my point was only 13 teams out of 32 in the NFL thats almost 1/3 have the type of player you described to me. Nearly 2/3 of the teams don't have that type of player.
Blue did not pass the critiera you were looking for.

[39thebeast]

I do like Brace (2nd round) and Hill (5th round) but neither one is an accomplished NFL tackle. Hill might take some developing as a NT because of small school Stillman and did not play NT more UT and DE. Chris Baker is only 6'2 310 and he dont fit the 4 pillars several off the field problems. Brace should be able to be a run stoper but will get zero penetration and how much was he helped playing next to Raji in college? If we take Brace in the second then we will still have other needs that went unfilled. I would be all for that if we cant get a DT via free agency but my preference would be to get a vet to go with our young guys as a patch this year. I was looking more for you to give me one established NFL NT that fit your criteria younger then Robbins with a similar cap hit as Robbins and I don't see one out there.


So my point was only 13 teams out of 32 in the NFL thats almost 1/3 have the type of player you described to me. Nearly 2/3 of the teams don't have that type of player.
Blue did not pass the critiera you were looking for.

My point is more than the league has a big tackle regardless of their age. Chris baker came to the combine at 326 so get your facts straight.

Regardless of how they get it the Rams need a true NT, thats the bottom line. The Rams have tried unconventional tackles and they haven't worked. Why would we try it again with a guy who is old. How does a 32 year old who takes away time from a young guy help rebuild. It made sense to add Glover back in the day because we were coming off a decent season and we thought Glover was the penitrator we needed on our d-line to impact the run and pass. At this point it makes no sense to add a quick fix. Devaney has said before that he didn't want a quick fix.

BTW you say robbins is a penitrating, run stuffer and that makes me really question how many giant games you watch. He was a rotational player in the giants heavy rotation the only defensive lineman who played less snaps was Dave Tofelson. He played more in the begeing of the year when he was sacking bum line ours, and the Whiners. Towards the end of the year the Giants were playing the younger Jay Alford just as much along side barry cofield. Also there DE's played tackle. You are severely overestamating him

[RamsSB99]

BTW you say robbins is a penitrating, run stuffer and that makes me really question how many giant games you watch. He was a rotational player in the giants heavy rotation the only defensive lineman who played less snaps was Dave Tofelson. He played more in the begeing of the year when he was sacking bum line ours, and the Whiners. Towards the end of the year the Giants were playing the younger Jay Alford just as much along side barry cofield. Also there DE's played tackle. You are severely overestamating him

The last 10 games he was playing injured he had a bruised hand, shoulder, and had to have a cleanup knee scope this offseason along with another DL. Prior to his injuries last year he was playing at his highest level and you can go back and read articles about how they wanted to get him back to help stuff the run. I have read all about them. So it sounds like you are the one that don't know a thing about him. He had 5.5 sacks in his first 6 games and he had 5.5 sacks his previous two year before that he was not a one hit wonder he has been a good run stuffing DL and able to collapse the pocket. By the sounds of it they would rather trade 2 other DL before letting him go now.

[RamsSB99]

As for Baker like I said before he dont fit the 4 pillars. He is only 6'1 and his playing weight was 310. Maybe he ate his way up to 326 for the combine. I would not be interested in this guy one bit.

Baker struggled with off-field incidents at Penn State. He was suspended from the team at the end of the 2007 season and finally dismissed from the Nittany Lions in July 2008 after pleading guilty to two counts of misdemeanor assault and criminal trespass following two fights in 2007. He received two years of probation. Baker and his family decided it was time to leave the Pirates after his redshirt junior season, but character concerns follow him into the NFL. Character issues abound based on his record at Penn State.

[Shan the Ram Man]

Hey Beast
Don't bring up "the big Grease" Picket , I'm still mad the old Lack of brain trust wouldn't keep him a Ram. A wasted draft pick to play his best years on other teams.

I say Dorrell Scott , Sammy Lee Hill, Ron Brace & Antonio Dixon as DT's. Take your pick on the youth movement.
Brace projected 2nd Rd
Scott projected 3rd Rd
Hill projected 4th Rd
Antonio Dixon projected 7th Rd
You never know Rams can draft 2 DT's in this Draft. The Rams have done it before.

[39thebeast]

The last 10 games he was playing injured he had a bruised hand, shoulder, and had to have a cleanup knee scope this offseason along with another DL. Prior to his injuries last year he was playing at his highest level and you can go back and read articles about how they wanted to get him back to help stuff the run. I have read all about them. So it sounds like you are the one that don't know a thing about him. He had 5.5 sacks in his first 6 games and he had 5.5 sacks his previous two year before that he was not a one hit wonder he has been a good run stuffing DL and able to collapse the pocket. By the sounds of it they would rather trade 2 other DL before letting him go now.

Don't all those injuries say anything to you. He is old get over it!!!!!! His play detreoarationg he is falling out of his prime. I would rather have a guy hitting his prime or who has yet to reach his prime. I guarantee he won't get 5.5 sacks again this year. You have been calling him a NT this whole time, but he isn't Cofield was the NT. That makes him a UT. Hmmm... who else on our roster plays UT oh ya a guy by the name of Adam Carriker. All your arguements have described him as an UT (which he is) but your calling him a NT just because he is the biggest DT on Giants but he is cleary a UT. He is a penitrator like you say, but he doesn't constantly comand a double and he as impact on the, but not as a NT.

[39thebeast]

Hey Beast
Don't bring up "the big Grease" Picket , I'm still mad the old Lack of brain trust wouldn't keep him a Ram. A wasted draft pick to play his best years on other teams.

I say Dorrell Scott , Sammy Lee Hill, Ron Brace & Antonio Dixon as DT's. Take your pick on the youth movement.
Brace projected 2nd Rd
Scott projected 3rd Rd
Hill projected 4th Rd
Antonio Dixon projected 7th Rd
You never know Rams can draft 2 DT's in this Draft. The Rams have done it before.

Smart man here

[BarronWade]

I just dont get this move. The guy is 32 we do not know how much he has left in the tank. U touched on it earlier RamsSB99 that Robbins has injury problems so why would we take him.

By signing Jason Brown the Rams made a pretty big statement:

WE ARE GOING TO GET YOUNGER.

If we do bring Robbins in i see him more of a back-up that comes in during substitutions. Cuz face it he is just not that durable anymore.

Cliff Ryan is 6-3 316 pounds. Your probably going to give that established player thing. But was Robbins established before spags? Why cant spags just groom Cliff Ryan into a true NT? Cuz if we do get Robbins i only see him as a temoporary 2 year fix. We are not winning the SB in 2 years. We need to build a team.

Cliff Ryan and Ron Brace can make a great combo in at NT next year. I love spags substitiution packages.

[RamsSB99]

I was going to let this thread die until you started lying about what I said.

We are not talking about a big contract we are talking about less then 2mil if we traded for him.

Don't all those injuries say anything to you. He is old get over it!!!!!!

Yeah they tell me you don't know a damn thing about the guy. Because you never said a word about them until I brought them up. Most of his injuries where not the chronic type. He played with two broken hands after week 6 which he got splitting a double team which you said he don't command. Do you think that might be why his play was not as good the last 10 games? His injuries have all healed now and I would expect him to have another couple years left of good play seeing how he was off to his best start of his career last year.

Read this about his injury and why he was not the same player the last 10 games:
Defensive tackle Fred Robbins, who sat out Sunday's victory over the Redskins because of an injured shoulder, practiced all week and is listed as probable for Sunday's game against the Eagles.
"I feel good," Robbins said this week. "It's a little sore, a little stiff, but I can deal with a little pain."
Actually, Robbins can deal with a lot of pain.
The ninth-year veteran has played more than a month with broken bones in both hands -- something he's finally revealed after at first denying there were any breaks. Robbins didn't want opposing teams to know the extent of his injuries, but all they had to do was look at the club-like hard casts he wore on both hands on game days.
Robbins has been wearing the casts -- or "braces," as he called them -- since breaking the bone between his pointer and middle finger on his left hand in Week 7 against the ***** and the thumb bone on his right hand the following week against the Steelers.
This week he'll switch to smaller braces, which will allow him to use his hands more than he has in recent weeks.
"You have to use your whole arms to grab when you wear the big braces," Robbins said. "The little things you have to do with your hands, you can't do them anymore. It ain't easy, but..."

Actually, there is no but. It hasn't been easy for Robbins since his first break. In the San Francisco game, he recorded 1½ sacks to give him 5½ on the season. That tied his career high, which he set in 2006 and equaled last season.

Due to the injuries, Robbins is still stuck at 5½.

"He's cursed," defensive end Justin Tuck said.

Added tackle Barry Cofield, "We try not to talk about it. We don't want to jinx him. I think he'll get another sack."

If not for a few bad breaks (literally), Robbins would probably have a new career high in sacks already, and he would likely have had more than five tackles in five games before sitting out last Sunday.

But Robbins' production began to dip when a player -- Robbins isn't sure exactly who it was -- slammed into his left hand while he was making a tackle against the *****. Against the Steelers, he split a double team and started wrapping up the ballcarrier when Tuck's helmet slammed into Robbins' right hand, bending his thumb back.

"It was a little friendly fire," Robbins said. "I'm not going to hold it against him."

Robbins knew he had broken his thumb when it began to swell immediately. He went to the sideline, told the trainers to tape it tightly and played the rest of the game.

The following week in practice, the 317-pound Robbins truly felt the pain when he put his right hand on the ground while in a three-point stance.

"I couldn't put all my weight forward," he said.

Robbins also couldn't use his dominant hand to punch or club opposing defenders as effectively as usual.

"The right hand is the one that gave me most problems," he said.

His play detreoarationg he is falling out of his prime.

You cant say his play has deteriorated based on him playing 10 games injured and with two broken hands. You need to judge him this year when he has the use of his two hand and is not starting off injured. His first 6 games he was playing the best football he has ever played in his entire career. You really show your lack of football knowledge if you say that someones play is deterioating when you see him play the last 10 weeks injured and with two broken hands. Thats 2 1/2 months and according to you he went from the best he has ever been to if healthy this year a shell of himself? Come on if you don't like the player say so don't make up such rediculous crap.

I guarantee he won't get 5.5 sacks again this year.

Three years in a row he has done it and last year prior to breaking both hands he did it in 6 games. They were all saying he played better then he ever has last year prior to injuries. If healthy and given the opportunity I guarantee he will make it 4 years in a row with 5.5 sacks.

You have been calling him a NT this whole time, but he isn't Cofield was the NT.That makes him a UT. Hmmm... who else on our roster plays UT oh ya a guy by the name of Adam Carriker. All your arguements have described him as an UT (which he is) but your calling him a NT just because he is the biggest DT on Giants but he is cleary a UT.

Now you are lying I never called him a NT. But since your on the subject he has played NT for both the Giants and Minnesota.

He is a penitrator like you say,

but he doesn't constantly comand a double and he as impact on the, but not as a NT.

There are not to many players that constantly command a double team unless they are Probowl type players. But he has commanded a double team a lot. Thats how he broke his second hand was getting past the double team and tackling the RB in the backfield.

Read these articles about him commanding a double team:

ARTICLE EXHIBIT A:

Midseason awards most underated defensive players
Sporting News
Wednesday, October 29, 2008

DT: Fred Robbins (NYG)
Robbins is that two-gap, run-stuffing defensive tackle that makes things easier for the Giants pass rushing defensive ends (Tuck, Kiwanuka, etc.) on the outside. Robbins is very good at holding up the center and a guard, which often times leaves MLB Antonio Pierce free to run to the ball carrier unabated by an offensive lineman. Robbins only has 19 tackles on the season, but his 5.5 sacks rank him near the top of defensive tackles in the entire NFL. He is having a Pro Bowl year

ARTICLE EXHIBIT B:

Pro Football Weekly's The Way We Here It:
Tuesday, December 30, 2008

There were coaches and teammates of NT Fred Robbins who were upset that he was only mentioned as a second alternate to the Pro Bowl, and those individuals will tell you that Robbins has been one of the biggest reasons for the team’s success in containing good run games this season. Case in point: Robbins missed the Dallas game with a bruised and jammed shoulder, and rookie RB Tashard Choice dashed for 91 yards on nine carries.

The Giants have a smaller, more athletic front, but Robbins combines size and quickness to be the team’s best interior defender. He notched most of his sacks earlier in the season, but he’s an underrated run stopper who is, in a way, the glue to the Giants’ front.

ARTICLE EXHIBIT C:

They meet again: Third Eagles-Giants act will go to the end
By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Sunday, January 11th 2009

When the Eagles have the ball

Philadelphia is a passing team that might have finally realized that its running game is the key to a deep playoff run. The Eagles averaged 26.7 runs per game during the regular season, but I expect closer to 35 in this contest. The Giants boast the NFL's ninth-ranked run defense and will be up to the task with defensive tackle Fred Robbins back inside taking on double teams.

ARTICLE EXHIBIT D:

Five Things We Learned About The Giants against the 'Niners
Bleacher Report
October 19,2008

Fred Robbins is as valuable as Justin Tuck on the defensive line.

He stops the run and rushes the passer, and has been the most consistent lineman this season. He is playing at a Pro Bowl level and no one has proven to be capable of stopping him.

ARTICLE EXHIBIT E:
Big Blue
Giants Storm Back in Second Half to Rout Cardinals

Fred Robbins was used quite a bit. He looked sharp as a pass rusher with four good pass pressures that I saw. He also blew up a running play for a 5-yard loss at the start of the second quarter. Robbins did a real nice job of playing off a double-team block and holding the back to a 1-yard gain in the third quarter.

ARTICLE EXHIBIT F:

Screaming Sports Giants 101

2008 NFL Draft Preview - Defensive Tackles

Dre Moore - Maryland - 6'4 - 305
He demands the double team and when he gets one, he occupies both blockers without getting driven backward. Moore could end up being a Fred Robbins type once he puts some weight on his frame, which has more than enough room for it.

[RamsSB99]

I just dont get this move. The guy is 32 we do not know how much he has left in the tank. U touched on it earlier RamsSB99 that Robbins has injury problems so why would we take him.

You wil never have a team with all players less then 30 years old. He is not high priced less then 2mil and we need DL depth. If we got him we would not need to put as much emphasis on DT early in the draft this year. Its a low risk signing because its low money, short term commitment, he knows Spags system and can help Carriker and Ryan. Not to mention that he played the best he has ever played last year prior to breaking both hands for Spags. I dont see his hands being broke on some freak plays as the guy is falling apart hands heal. Again cheap, knows the system, mentor, and best year was last year playing at a Probowl level prior to injury and he still got named as a second alternate to the ProBowl despite playing 10 games with two broken hands and many thought he got slighted.

[39thebeast]

All that proved to me is you are good with Rotoworld. Answer these questions

How many years as a productive starter does Robbins have left?

You say he is a glue player, but what is here that is established that he can glue

How does he fit in long term?

What about Ryan and Carriker?