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Thread: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    Fisher has a history of really liking to draft defensive tackles early, and the Rams really have only two of starting caliber now.

    What they do not have is a pass rushing DT, a Warren Sapp type if you will, a true three technique that can blow up a running game and sack the QB as well.

    In this draft, you have possibly te top two defensive tackles who are that type, Timmy Jernigan and Aaron Donald. Donald tore up Senior Bowl week, and Jernigan has been a big riser on draft boards.

    The other two possible first round DTs, louis Nix and RaShede Hageman, are more like the guys the Rams have starting now.

    The Rams move Hayes inside partially because they don't have a guy like these two, and with Langford probably not here in two years, the Rams need to add a fit here soon.

    It's very difficult to ever get a DT like thse two I mention after the first round, or at worst the top 40 picks.

    And even the ones taken high have a very large bust potential.

    However, if one of these two is there at 13, they would have to seriously consider going there due to the level of talent versus other positions of need, and how a middle guy like that could really make this defense a lot better immediately.

    If the Rams solve their OT problem by re-signing Saffold, and if they feel comfortable with Barksdale at RT, I might even look at a DT after a trede down to say, 6th, and then go safety, linebacker, cornerback at 13,

    If you add the 5th pick in round two in the trade, plus other picks, You have a good chance of getting a very good CB, G, C, safety, RB or WR there as well as with your 3rd rounder.

    I can see Donald and Hernigan being two guys who might wow them at the combine and move right into the top 15 by draft day, just like Michael Brockers, Fletcher Cox and Dontari Poe did, and like richardson and Lotulelei did last year.

    Barry Waller

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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    I'll take Aaron Donald happily anywhere in the draft as I think he will be a SUPERSTAR. I'm so confident in it. He will be an absolute TERROR in the league. He's going to absolutely freighten OG's and C's when it comes to pass pro. If you can get a push from the inside DT's on pass rushing downs you win. And couple that with the best DE duo in the league? Yeah, that could be a problem.

    Just think about how many games Rob impacted this year. He literally single handedly beat teams. He was the absolute sole reason we won that Saints game. He was the reason we started strong against the Colts. The reason we were in it to win it against the Hawks. The reason we closed against the Bears and Bucs, and this is all off the top of my mind.

    If we could get a guy that could have push inside the middle of the pocket thus not allowing QB's to step up, our defensive line could realistically reach 65 sacks.
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    I'm concerned about Donald's size. He'll make some plays with his quickness but, facing OGs who outweigh him by 20-30 lbs, he may get worn down as games progress.

    I prefer Hagerman, Nix and Jernigan.

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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    If we can get Donald in the 2nd im all for it, but we have bigger needs for the 1st round than a DT. But this is a Fisher team, and he does love his DT's, so it would not surprise me if he did grab one in the first, even if that one was Donald. Donald is a beast.


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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I'm concerned about Donald's size. He'll make some plays with his quickness but, facing OGs who outweigh him by 20-30 lbs, he may get worn down as games progress.

    I prefer Hagerman, Nix and Jernigan.
    I agree with you Av, in that i am concerned about his size. But he did a great job against Cyril Richardson this week, who weighs about 340 lbs. But also i look at it that he isn't an experienced NFL starting Guard, so although it is good to see him do that, it is still against just another prospect(who i like and sucked seeing him get owned). I like Hageman a lot, but i am leaning a bit towards Donald being more of a better rotational player than Hagemen, as i think we both think Langford is a good DT(think i read you saying won't get rid of Lanford but not sure). So if we do keep him, as i expect, Donald would be the better rotational player, but only if the value is right when we pick. Also like Tuitt as well.


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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tampa_Ram View Post
    If we can get Donald in the 2nd im all for it, but we have bigger needs for the 1st round than a DT. But this is a Fisher team, and he does love his DT's, so it would not surprise me if he did grab one in the first, even if that one was Donald. Donald is a beast.
    To be honest, none of us really know what our needs will be until we get through free agency.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -01-26-2014 at 02:18 PM.

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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    Like Tampa said Donald was absolutely TOYING with a 340 lb top OG in the draft Cyril Richardson. He is going to be the best DT in this class IMO. He absolutely reminds me of Warren Sapp as a true inside pass rusher. He's a defensive tackle that can get 6+ sacks every year, and that's only a stat sheet projection. He is most definitely the best pass rusher from that spot but also can be an excellent run defender, like Geno Atkins.
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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    To be honest, none of us really knows what our needs will be until we get through free agency.
    Cant disagree with that one bit, agree 100%. It's all a crap shoot from now on till the picks are in.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Like Tampa said Donald was absolutely TOYING with a 340 lb top OG in the draft Cyril Richardson. He is going to be the best DT in this class IMO. He absolutely reminds me of Warren Sapp as a true inside pass rusher. He's a defensive tackle that can get 6+ sacks every year, and that's only a stat sheet projection. He is most definitely the best pass rusher from that spot but also can be an excellent run defender, like Geno Atkins.
    He certainly made Richardson (who I have rated behind Yankey) look slow, but there are 300+ interior linemen in the NFL who are nimble and much bigger than Donald.

    I think Donald' s best position may be as DE in a 3-4, but I'll be interested to see how he does in the strength tests at the Combine.

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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    He certainly made Richardson (who I have rated behind Yankey) look slow, but there are 300+ interior linemen in the NFL who are nimble and much bigger than Donald.

    I think Donald' s best position may be as DE in a 3-4, but I'll be interested to see how he does in the strength tests at the Combine.
    There definitely are OG's who are power pigs, but size certainly doesn't mean much. The Bears' Henry Melton is a beast against the run and a terrific 3 tech pass rusher and is light. Gerald McCoy the same way. Geno Atkins being the last of the comparisons.

    I believe when Donald hits the NFL level he can add 5-8 lbs of pure muscle and not have it affect much as his first step and excellent hand usage are the reasons he is the player he is. I mean during a particular 1v1 drill Donald who weighs 288 lbs absolutely pancaked and put Cyril Richardson on his ass (he has 52 lbs on him and got overpowered). I wouldn't underestimate the power Donald has, as well as leverage.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post

    There definitely are OG's who are power pigs, but size certainly doesn't mean much. The Bears' Henry Melton is a beast against the run and a terrific 3 tech pass rusher and is light. Gerald McCoy the same way. Geno Atkins being the last of the comparisons.

    I believe when Donald hits the NFL level he can add 5-8 lbs of pure muscle and not have it affect much as his first step and excellent hand usage are the reasons he is the player he is. I mean during a particular 1v1 drill Donald who weighs 288 lbs absolutely pancaked and put Cyril Richardson on his ass (he has 52 lbs on him and got overpowered). I wouldn't underestimate the power Donald has, as well as leverage.
    I'm not rejecting the guy, but the guys you listed weigh 295 (Melton), 300 (McCoy), and (303) Atkins. 288 is light for a DT, so his size has to be considered. I'm not interested in a DT who gets 10 sacks if he is a liability against the run. While I'm not saying that is Donald's fate, it is a concern.

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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    Aaron Donald impresses at the Senior Bowl

    By Michael David Smith, NBC Sports PFT.
    January 25, 2014, 1:01 PM EST

    In a year when the Senior Bowl is lacking in top-level talent, the best college player who chose to attend was Pittsburgh defensive tackle Aaron Donald, who won the Outland Trophy as the best college lineman, the Lombardi Award as the best lineman or linebacker and the Bednarik and Nagurski awards as the best defensive player. The best college players don’t always turn out to be the best pro prospects, but at this year’s Senior Bowl, Donald looked like both.

    Donald was selected as the most outstanding player during Senior Bowl practices, and Falcons coach Mike Smith, who is coaching the North team in the Senior Bowl, said Donald stood above the rest.

    “Donald is a very explosive defensive tackle,” Smith said, via AL.com. “I’ve been very impressed with him. He’s short in stature by NFL standards and doesn’t maybe have all the measurables, but he’s one of the more explosive guys we have on the North squad. He’s done a very nice job both in the running and the pass game.”

    Donald is only six feet tall and 288 pounds, so he’ll be one of the smallest defensive tackles in the NFL next season. But when you combine dominant play on the field in college with a great week of practice for the pro coaches and scouts in attendance at the Senior Bowl, production means more than size.

    Bold mine.




    Great defensive player! BUT ... either put plenty of pounds and muscle on this young man to battle in the NFL trenches or...

    Put Donald on a diet to lose 30 lbs. and make him one of our OLB!

    Last edited by RealRam; -01-26-2014 at 09:37 PM. Reason: Tyop

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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    Just so everyone knows, Aaron Donald has no more problems against the run than any DT... He is probably better against the run than guys like Ra'shede Hageman who is 6'6 300+ lbs. Donald being small works in his favour. His low centre of gravity will win everytime. It's hard to get your hands on a guy that's small and extremely quick, not to mention has excellent hand usage. Once Donald hits an NFL team he can add at least 5-8 lbs putting him around 295, which is just fine for a pass rushing 3 tech.

    Guys like Henry Melton are amazing against the run and he only weighs 295 lbs. Matter of fact, he used to be a RB in college at one point.


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    Re: Would Jeff Fisher Be Tempted to Go DT ?

    I think Donald makes sense for the Rams, but I'd have a hard time pulling the trigger on him in the Top 15-20 of the first round.

    Let me start by saying it's easy to name the success stories of guys who are short or light and have worked out, because those names are well known. But for every 6'1" Geno Atkins, there was a 6'1" Brian Price, Jeff Owens, or Boo Robinson in that 2010 class. How did 6'1" 282 lbs Pittsburgh DT Mick Williams work out in the NFL?

    If it was just the height, maybe it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But it's the height... and the weight... and the arm length. He has a lot of talent and ability, but at some point, more often than not, measureables catch up with you at the professional level. It takes a special kind of talent to overcome those issues and become one of the best in the league. Is Donald that kind of talent?

    Now having said all that, one reason I think he fits with the Rams is that I believe Donald's success at the NFL level will be in one on one situations, and on a defensive line with Robert Quinn, Chris Long, and Michael Brockers, he'll probably see his fair share of one on one blocking. Jeff Fisher had some success with Tony Brown in Tennessee, and Brown wasn't too far off from Donald's size/weight. So I could see where he would appeal to the Rams and Fisher.

    Barry, you seem to be a big guy when it comes to measureables. I remember debating positional height with you last year. Do you have any information on how many 6'1" DTs have been drafted in the first round in the last 5-10 years? That would be interesting to examine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Just so everyone knows, Aaron Donald has no more problems against the run than any DT... He is probably better against the run than guys like Ra'shede Hageman who is 6'6 300+ lbs. Donald being small works in his favour. His low centre of gravity will win everytime. It's hard to get your hands on a guy that's small and extremely quick, not to mention has excellent hand usage. Once Donald hits an NFL team he can add at least 5-8 lbs putting him around 295, which is just fine for a pass rushing 3 tech.

    Guys like Henry Melton are amazing against the run and he only weighs 295 lbs. Matter of fact, he used to be a RB in college at one point.
    One thing is certain... when you fall for a player, you fall hard.
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