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Thread: WR rankings!

  1. #31
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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    These aren't just specifically WR rankings, like I said in an earlier post it pertains to how I think the WR's correlate with the Rams.

    Plus, I do believe that Blackmon does have an edge on Floyd on being the more pro ready prospect, I just think Floyd will be better in the future.
    Look, I mean no offense, but I have a hard time believing these rankings were Rams-specific, since (1) that was never mentioned in the original post and only came up after someone asked about it, and (2) in multiple responses defending your placement of Alshon Jeffery in the third spot of your rankings, you've not once brought up why he'd be a great fit for the Rams' needs at the position or why he'd be the third-best receiving prospect for them.

    As for Blackmon/Floyd, I can't put it any simpler than this: ranking Floyd as the second-best receiver while claiming he's going to be the best from the crop makes zero logical sense. What your rankings are saying is that if you had your choice of receivers in this class, you'd take Justin Blackmon first as he's your top-ranked receiver, even though you claim Floyd will be better. Let me say it again so it's clear - you're open to the idea of bypassing on a player you think is the best to take another player who, in your eyes, won't be as good. Again, it makes zero sense.

    If you're going to tell me you'd personally take Floyd over Blackmon, save it because I'm not buying it. After all, your rankings clearly show otherwise since Blackmon is on top. And if your rankings don't depict the order in which you'd select prospects, then they serve no purpose at all.

    This would be like having the first pick in a game of pick-up basketball with your friends, and after you've selected Steve to be on your team, proclaiming that A.J. (who was picked by someone else after your selection) is actually going to be the best player. If A.J. is going to be the best player, then you should have made him your pick.

    Everyone has a right to an opinion, but if you want yours to be taken seriously, you've got to have some conviction behind it rather than contradiction.
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  2. #32
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    Re: WR rankings!

    My, my Nick, you've been in rare form lately there chap, if I didn't know any better I would swear that another Mod has hacked your account(lol).

  3. #33
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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Look, I mean no offense, but I have a hard time believing these rankings were Rams-specific, since (1) that was never mentioned in the original post and only came up after someone asked about it, and (2) in multiple responses defending your placement of Alshon Jeffery in the third spot of your rankings, you've not once brought up why he'd be a great fit for the Rams' needs at the position or why he'd be the third-best receiving prospect for them.

    As for Blackmon/Floyd, I can't put it any simpler than this: ranking Floyd as the second-best receiver while claiming he's going to be the best from the crop makes zero logical sense. What your rankings are saying is that if you had your choice of receivers in this class, you'd take Justin Blackmon first as he's your top-ranked receiver, even though you claim Floyd will be better. Let me say it again so it's clear - you're open to the idea of bypassing on a player you think is the best to take another player who, in your eyes, won't be as good. Again, it makes zero sense.

    If you're going to tell me you'd personally take Floyd over Blackmon, save it because I'm not buying it. After all, your rankings clearly show otherwise since Blackmon is on top. And if your rankings don't depict the order in which you'd select prospects, then they serve no purpose at all.

    This would be like having the first pick in a game of pick-up basketball with your friends, and after you've selected Steve to be on your team, proclaiming that A.J. (who was picked by someone else after your selection) is actually going to be the best player. If A.J. is going to be the best player, then you should have made him your pick.

    Everyone has a right to an opinion, but if you want yours to be taken seriously, you've got to have some conviction behind it rather than contradiction.
    Has a team never taken a player that they think will better fit their system? Thats what I'm trying to basically get at here. Like I said, I think Blackmon is the more pro ready prospect. He excels in working the 5-10 yard route range, which is exactly what we will run and need. He excels at short yardage routes, and creating more YAC. He gets great separation due to his crisp routes and decent speed. Floyd on the other hand to me is more of a guy that excels when working certain routes, especially mid ranged. I think Floyd will thrive with a team like the Texans or Packers (they wont take him, just saying), while I think Blackmon is the perfect fit for a team thats going to run basically the WCO while being very conservative.


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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Look, I mean no offense, but I have a hard time believing these rankings were Rams-specific, since (1) that was never mentioned in the original post and only came up after someone asked about it, and (2) in multiple responses defending your placement of Alshon Jeffery in the third spot of your rankings, you've not once brought up why he'd be a great fit for the Rams' needs at the position or why he'd be the third-best receiving prospect for them.

    As for Blackmon/Floyd, I can't put it any simpler than this: ranking Floyd as the second-best receiver while claiming he's going to be the best from the crop makes zero logical sense. What your rankings are saying is that if you had your choice of receivers in this class, you'd take Justin Blackmon first as he's your top-ranked receiver, even though you claim Floyd will be better. Let me say it again so it's clear - you're open to the idea of bypassing on a player you think is the best to take another player who, in your eyes, won't be as good. Again, it makes zero sense.

    If you're going to tell me you'd personally take Floyd over Blackmon, save it because I'm not buying it. After all, your rankings clearly show otherwise since Blackmon is on top. And if your rankings don't depict the order in which you'd select prospects, then they serve no purpose at all.

    This would be like having the first pick in a game of pick-up basketball with your friends, and after you've selected Steve to be on your team, proclaiming that A.J. (who was picked by someone else after your selection) is actually going to be the best player. If A.J. is going to be the best player, then you should have made him your pick.

    Everyone has a right to an opinion, but if you want yours to be taken seriously, you've got to have some conviction behind it rather than contradiction.
    Plus what does Alshon Jeffery have to do with anything? At this point you're just trying to question every opinion of mine. I think he is a good football player, and will be a lot better when he is taught the correct way to run better routes and how to use his body to his advantage. His only problem was separation, and a lot of that falls on his speed, but with his size Bradford can put it up and he can out muscle/fight the DB and snag the ball like hes shown time and time again.

    Like I said when I responded to RT at one point, this list goes for how I think the WR's are graded and how they may land according to our teams use for them.


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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Plus what does Alshon Jeffery have to do with anything? At this point you're just trying to question every opinion of mine.
    That's pretty off-base. If that were my intention, I would have torn into your last mock offseason rather than clicking the Like button for it. Had you just posted your rankings with no comments, I probably wouldn't have had any real criticism. Sure, I would have disagreed with some of them, but that was bound to happen. Opinions vary; that's natural.

    But the issue I'm trying to bring to your attention is the inconsistency in your comments and how they simply don't add up either with the rankings or even other comments you've made.

    Look at the Blackmon/Floyd discussion and how much it's changed in this thread. Despite ranking him second in your list, you argued in your initial post that Floyd would be the better pro because of size and route running. Then on page one of this thread, you said Blackmon was only ranked higher because of Floyd's off the field issues and that the Rams wouldn't take him @ 6. After that, you came up with another reason - pro readiness.

    Now, in the response right before your last one, the reasons continue to shift as you appear to be arguing that Blackmon is ranked higher than Floyd because of schematic fit. But if that's how you feel, then why would you have a guy who you don't think is a great fit with what the Rams are looking to do offensively ranked second highest on your Rams-specific ranking? It's unclear and contradictory, and your reasons seem to keep shifting.

    Similar example, you list Stephen Hill as your fourth-ranked receiver in a Rams-specific ranking, only to say you'd avoid him in the very same post. Later in the thread, you went so far as to argue why he isn't a fit for the Rams because he's too raw. If he isn't a good fit for the Rams and you wouldn't take him in the first two rounds (after first saying you'd avoid him), what's he doing in the fourth slot of your Rams-specific ranking? Again, more confusion and inconsistency.

    What does Alshon Jeffery have to do with anything? Well, you've ranked the guy third on a list that's supposed to be geared towards the Rams specifically, but in defending that ranking, didn't speak at all towards how he'd actually fit to the Rams more than other lower-ranked prospects. It furthers the confusion as to whether this is a general ranking or a Rams-specific ranking. But going even further on Jeffery, in this thread he's your third-ranked WR prospect whom you say you believe in, yet barely a month ago, you said...

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I dont think he'll be getting much seperation from NFL CB's, so like you said he better be a monster when it comes to making catches in traffic. I wouldn't even bother with him at this point.
    So which is it? What's changed so drastically in a month that you've gone from "wouldn't even bother with him" to "happily take him at the top of Round Two?" Do we need to go back to September when you said you'd take Jeff Fuller over Blackmon, only to vehemently deny ever having said anything like that when I brought it up in January?

    Look, I don't care what your opinion is. We all have opinions, and no one's opinion is more right than anyone else's. What I'm trying to do here isn't to attack you personally, but get you to form an opinion and actually stand by it. Because right now, three pages into this thread, I still have no idea what your ranking actually represents because it seems to change from page to page. Even in the response I'm quoting, you seem to change the intent of the ranking again, this time saying it's how you think the WRs are graded and how they may land according to the Rams' use for them (...uh, what?).

    It's hard to take opinions seriously when there's little conviction behind them and they shift depending on which way the wind is blowing. If you're going to have an opinion, actually have it. Stand by it. Then, it'll be taken seriously.
    Last edited by Nick; -03-26-2012 at 11:08 PM.
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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Plus what does Alshon Jeffery have to do with anything? At this point you're just trying to question every opinion of mine. I think he is a good football player, and will be a lot better when he is taught the correct way to run better routes and how to use his body to his advantage. His only problem was separation, and a lot of that falls on his speed, but with his size Bradford can put it up and he can out muscle/fight the DB and snag the ball like hes shown time and time again.
    1. Stephen Hill can basically do everything Jeffery can, but Hill can also create separation. Yet, you say we should stay away from Hill while Jeffery should be a high candidate on the Rams list. You use the "he can be coached up" argument to support Jeffery, yet you do not use it for Hill. That's not being fair to Hill's ranking.


    2. If Hill should be avoided, why is he ranked #4 on your "Ram's WR Ranking"


    3.
    Wright runs nice routes and creates seperation. -sosa39rams

    Kendall Wright doesn't do anything spectacular. - sosa39rams
    Huh? As far as I know, running nice routes and creating separation are two very good attributes in a WR.

    And how exactly did Kendall Wright "benefit from RGIII"? Sure RGIII is a great QB, but so is Bradford. It's not like he would be downgrading coming to St. Louis. I don't see the reasoning behind this logic.


    4.
    Plus, I do believe that Blackmon does have an edge on Floyd on being the more pro ready prospect, I just think Floyd will be better in the future.


    Then why do we not draft Floyd? If Floyd is the better investment in the long term, he should be our #1 guy.

    Being a better player in the future > Being currently more "pro ready" (One can even make the argument that Blackmon is not more pro ready because he is coming out of Oklahoma St.'s offense)


    5.
    . I'm not "hedging" anything because I really couldn't care less if I'm right or wrong in 3 years, theres a reason I'm sitting behind a computer screen posting on an internet forum and not in an NFL office getting paid $300,000 to do what I'm doing now.
    Actually, you do care which is why you gloat occasionally throughout random threads about how you "knew this prospect would be amazing" before anyone else did.


    6.
    No, Hill can be good with coaching. I just think that Jeffery is ready to contribute right away if he comes to the Rams, whereas Hill will basically only run 9's and we'll need to wait at least 2 years for him to become familiar with the pro route tree and the way to perfect it.
    You stated earlier that Hill is exactly what we need because he can stretch the field, yet now you state that he won't be able to contribute right away, while the slower Jeffery can.


    7.
    Why is a raw player like Stephen Hill even considered for the first round? I seen you post in another thread the un-known little school player Dale Moss (I think), he's the exact same as Hill (1 inch shorter and same speed) and he's going to go undrafted.
    I simply stated that Moss is intriguing since he is a former basketball player. Not once did I even mention where I would want to draft him, so you referring to my comment in another thread is pretty useless here.


    8.
    Why are you telling me where I should put the WR's, when the thread is my opinion, not yours.


    Obviously I do not agree with your opinion, just like the majority of the posters who have read this thread.


    9.
    I think he(Alshon Jeffery) is a good football player, and will be a lot better when he is taught the correct way to run better routes and how to use his body to his advantage. His only problem was separation, and a lot of that falls on his speed,
    So Jeffery is slow, which summarizes the rest of our WRs and you even stated that we need more speed.

    Next, you state that he has to be taught how to run correct routes yet you say he can come in and contribute right away. Personally, I don't see how a slow, lacklustered route running WR can be ranked #3 on your "Ram's" WR Ranking.



    10. Finally you have made up your mind that Jeff Fuller is indeed worse than Blackmon.




    Basically, me and Nick are getting at the same thing. Your opinions and logic constantly contradict each other, and when you realize that you made a mistake, instead of just admitting you are wrong you start spinning plates and just bsing things. Now, it might work on an internet forum where most people might not care enough to call you out (besides me), but it will get you into very sticky situations when you become older.

    Stick by your opinions, and stop changing them when people start questioning it. Honestly, it makes you look weak (saying this with no offense), and it's not very respectable.

    Last edited by RockinRam; -03-27-2012 at 12:49 AM.

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    Re: WR rankings!

    Screw Blackmon....if hes not in the elite class like Green or Jones thiers no damn reason to take him top 10 regardless if were handicapped at the position. You take a receiver later in this draft ( who arent that far of a drop off) and then you use you future premium picks to grab those elite studs in the future...Dorial Green Beckham? (just an example)

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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by ludairv View Post
    Screw Blackmon....if hes not in the elite class like Green or Jones thiers no damn reason to take him top 10 regardless if were handicapped at the position.
    You used the word "if," but it seems like you've decided for yourself that he's not.

    Okay... why?

    Do you think a WR has to be 6'2 or taller to be elite?
    Do you think a WR has to run in the 4.3s to be elite?
    Do you think a WR has to weigh more than 220 lbs. to be elite?

    If so, you'll have to explain your logic to (just to name a few), Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward and Marvin Harrison.

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    Re: WR rankings!

    I think Jeffery has been falling and falling --- a good pro day would show he is back into the second / third round area....otherwise he isn't doing himself favors lately

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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    I think Jeffery has been falling and falling --- a good pro day would show he is back into the second / third round area....otherwise he isn't doing himself favors lately
    My problem with Jeffrey is that, even if he has a good Pro Day, can we trust that he'll stay in shape and be ready to perform when training camp starts?

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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    My problem with Jeffrey is that, even if he has a good Pro Day, can we trust that he'll stay in shape and be ready to perform when training camp starts?
    I kind of feel this way too....The thing with Jeffrey is that if he falls to say Round 4....and we are there at the top...he may be worth the risk...

    Especially if guys like Fueller, Quick and Criner are all gone..

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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    You used the word "if," but it seems like you've decided for yourself that he's not.

    Okay... why?

    Do you think a WR has to be 6'2 or taller to be elite?
    Do you think a WR has to run in the 4.3s to be elite?
    Do you think a WR has to weigh more than 220 lbs. to be elite?

    If so, you'll have to explain your logic to (just to name a few), Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward and Marvin Harrison.
    ummm dude, those guys werent drafted in the top 10... lol and if you want me to (not like i really need to) post scouts/analysts opinions of blackmon i can. he was smart to declare this year, if he had gone last year he would not of been taken in the top ten you cant deny that for a second... but yes he may of gone in 10-15 range...
    Last edited by ludairv; -03-27-2012 at 11:15 AM.

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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    My problem with Jeffrey is that, even if he has a good Pro Day, can we trust that he'll stay in shape and be ready to perform when training camp starts?
    No we cannot, which is why I am not very high on him. There's no reason why a receiver should have a beer gut ever.

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    Re: WR rankings!

    Quote Originally Posted by ludairv View Post
    ummm dude, those guys werent drafted in the top 10... lol and if you want me to (not like i really need to) post scouts/analysts opinions of blackmon i can. he was smart to declare this year, if he had gone last year he would not of been taken in the top ten you cant deny that for a second... but yes he may of gone in 10-15 range...
    If you knew they would have turned out like they have, would you have picked them at the Top 10? Just curious.

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    Re: WR rankings!

    hindsight is 20/20 bro. why not just take a chance on a later round dude (like those hall of fame players were) and see if they have the kind of potential that those players had? you take recievers that you kno are rare and stand above the rest of the pack. (physical talent,mental talent, intangibles) in the top 10. (megatron,jones, green, fitz,)

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