Every American Should See And Hear What The Rest Of the World Already Knows

I know this post may be removed because it has little to do with the Rams however, if it weren't for the Rams and my investigation of Superbowl XXXVI this post would never have happened. Besides it very well may have cemented what I have thought all along that superbowl XXXVI was not on the level.

This is why you have not heard much from me lately as I have been consumed for months by something of far greater importance then the Rams. My investigation of Superbowl XXXVI took me to areas that I never dreamed. I happened upon some web sites that claimed the American government was directly responsible for orchestrating the events of 911. Because I am a conservative Republican and a Bush backer, my reaction was just as yours is likely to be so I dug further and further into the evidence. My goal was to prove to myself that this was a hoax. That this could not possibly be true. However the more I looked at the evidence, the more it became clear to me that we have been had. Many of you may not realize that there is a 911 truth movement going on right now as we speak. The evidence they have is irrefutable to say the least. There are some who will deny what they are seeing is true. There are those (as I was) that will be upset that this information has been released. If you call yourself an American, An American who loves their country and their freedoms then it is your duty to look at the evidence surrounding the events of 911. There have been documentary's released that the main stream media refuses to show us. The 911 commission report is filled with lies to the point that they have denied certain structural columns inside the world trade center existed even though there are several older documentaries regarding the building of the world trade center that show these structural columns. Many people do not know that 3 steel framed buildings collapsed on September 11th 2001.
World Trade Center Building #7 Collapsed on September 11th and the official FEMA report is. We don't Know! Explosives anyone?


Most people do not know that before and since September 11th no steel framed sky scraper had ever collapsed due to fire. Most people do not know that not one piece of a Boeing 757 airplane was found at the pentagon. Most people do not know that parts of flight 93 were scattered over an 8 mile area even though the official report says it crashed straight into the ground. Think back to that day and the live video of those events. Do you remember seeing a plane at the pentagon or in shanksville Tennessee? You remember a hole in the ground but you did not see a plane because it had been scattered over an 8 mile area. You saw smoke at the pentagon but you did not see an airplane. This is just a tiny fraction of the evidence showing that we were lied to regarding the events of September 11th. George Bush answered a question on that fateful day. The question was posed to him by a 2nd grader asking him how he felt when he heard about the plane crashes. George Bush said that he was on his way into the classroom when he saw the first plane fly into the first tower and he thought it was pilot error. Obviously this is impossible since it was a surprise attack and there was no video of the first plane hitting the first tower until hours after the attack. It doesn't make sense. I would not come here and make outrageous statements like this unless I had evidence to back it up. There is also plenty of circunstancial evidence that Pat Tillman was murdered then that murder was exploited by the current administration for all it could be. Tillman was going to speak out against Bush saying that his war in Iraq was "FUC*ING ILLEGAL" and he was going to campaign for Kerry when he returned. He got dead for that. I suggest every American start here then make your own decision on whether or not you feel it is worth watching the other media censored evidence that is available only on the world wide web. www.stlouisrams.net/911 I realize that many of you will hate me for this however it is the sheeple of the country that close their minds and their eyes when they see evidence that is so obvious then deny it. Finally, do not use the amount of evidence that I came up regarding superbowl XXXVI as being a conspiracy because the evidence that superbowl XXXVI was a conspiracy is a joke compared to the evidence that our own government orchestrated the attacks of September 11th 2001. Most of all, do your own investigation of 911. Do your own thinking and remember that most people are really sheeple who follow the main stream and have been programed to let others think for them.

[UtterBlitz]

Good to see you around Ramtime. It has been a while. I see that you have been busy investigating conspiracy theories. You do realize that you sound pretty far out there. People in general don't like to think about things like this. People like to believe in honesty and truth and they don't like to think about ulterior motives.

Let me ask this? If there is any truth to this, why would the government cause 911 to happen? What good comes from it? What is the motive?

[RamsFanSam]

RT, I have a website for you to check out. (I like reading it for a laugh...some of the people are WAY out there! Some of it is valid...) There's a LOT of links to different websites there also. Lots of info to read, videos, etc., to see and make up your own mind. There's a lot of links to 9/11 info.
www.surfingtheapocalypse.com

One warning: 99% of the people there are, well, wierd. Some of them actually think they talk to ET's...LOL

Utter, the only thing that could come from 9/11 being an inside job is money and/or power. I wouldn't put it past some people. After all, every week you hear about some ass who swindled money out of an old person who is on a fixed income. If a person is that cold-hearted, why is it so hard to believe that a politician or billionnaire would plan a mass murder for profit?

[Fat Pang]

This is wrong.

[RamsFanSam]

Originally Posted by Fat Pang

This is wrong.

FP, what is wrong? If you are referring to someone questioning what they hear from the government and the media, I think it is right. I don't know your political affiliations, but I know that you being in Hong Kong have probably heard things about China and Tiawan that I haven't. Both China and Tiawan probably favor themselves in the media, and the average person must sort out for themselves what the truth is.
By questioning what the media and the politicians are telling us, RT is in fact learning to ask questions before accepting something as fact. Next election, RT will end up studying the candidates and issues BEFORE voting. If more voters would educate themselves of the truth about things and people, we would probably have a better government by the people, and for the people.
I'm just curious what you think is wrong....maybe I'm dumb, but I am curious.

[Truth]

Interesting post. I've just spent the last hour or 2 going over the sites linked to the pages you've provided. There is some compelling info. However, it is important to keep an open mind on ALL sides of the issue. There seems to be enough "evidence" to bring about more investigation. But, I don't think there is enough to draw conclusions.

If, as the video implies, the planes that hit the towers were not the AA flights, then what happened to them? Why haven't we heard anything from Air Traffic Controllers. I'm intrigued,but not convinced.

[Hodgins]

speculation on how far the level of corruption in the Bush administration has gotten runs rampid everywhere, I agree with most people in this thread and say that while its unlikely an open mind must always be kept

[SFCRamFan]

Nice try Michael Moore. :down:

[AvengerRam]

Give me a freakin' break. :bored:

Now let's talk about how the lunar landings were faked to deflect coverage from the wedding of Bigfoot to the Loch Ness Monster in a service conducted by Lee Harvey Oswald in the Lost City of Atlantis.

[r8rh8rmike]

I can't wait for the Oliver Stone film.

[RamsFanSam]

Originally Posted by AvengerRam

Give me a freakin' break. :bored:

Now let's talk about how the lunar landings were faked to deflect coverage from the wedding of Bigfoot to the Loch Ness Monster in a service conducted by Lee Harvey Oswald in the Lost City of Atlantis.

Av, may I ask a question?

Do YOU believe everything you read in the paper, or see on the news, just because the reporters are generally truthful? I think you are too intelligent to swallow everything that is reported.

How about what the government tells you? Do you believe it is 100% truthful? I doubt it, for the same reasons.

So RamTime is doubting the story as reported by the press. I do too. I know that the press was unable to report ALL of the truth about what happened that day in 2001. Why do I "know" this? well, for one thing, the government stated that there was an investigation into the incidents that happened that day. As an attorney, you know that if the police are investigating a crime, they will not release all they know about said crime to the public. To do so would "contaminate" the investigation. I'm sure that the FBI, CIA, or whoever is in charge of the investigation into 9-11 would follow the same MO.
Now, on the other hand, do you doubt everything that is reported? No. It is impossible. Millions of people have seen the tape of the attacks. Some facts are undeniable, and were factually reported. Other things that were not reported are questions that remain unanswered.
So, what is a person to do? Follow blindly, believe every word from Washington as the Gospel? Or, should the populace demand to know all the facts?
I was raised to trust our leaders to do the right thing...but to keep an eye on them, just to be sure they remained honest. I see nothing wrong with trying to find out the whole story. After all, some things just didn't add up. WTC 7 was reported to have received only superficial damage, yet it collapsed. Some people in PA reported seeing another aircraft flying behind flight 93. The section of the Pentagon where the aircraft hit was unoccupied. Coincidence? Possibly. Divine intervention? Possibly. Someone giving the attackers assistance? Not likely, but possible. Somewhere, someone knows the whole truth about what really happened, and we will never know but a portion of it. This is similar to the Kennedy assasination...when Oswald was killed, the entire truth was taken with him.
I think RamTime should wonder about it. I'm not saying I buy into the conspiracy theories, but isn't it the responsibility of all Americans to insure our government is honest and above reproach? And if there is an American involved in 9-11 in ANY way, shouldn't he or she be held responsible for the deaths and destruction that occurred that day? How about someone who might have known what was planned, but decided to cover it up?
A lot of people don't realize that Al-Queda was backed by the American government when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. 'Friendships' might have been formed, and information may have been passed on. If so, then the 'informants' should be found and prosecuted.

I can't believe people are really discouraging the fact of RT asking questions. I never saw anything that said he hated America. All I saw was a desire to KNOW the truth. Last I heard, the USA was not Nazi Germany, or Stalinist Russia, and we have the freedom to learn things without our government telling us what to believe.

[Fat Pang]

It is entirely understandable in western democracy, where freedom of speech is an enshrined right in a written constitution, for it's citizens to question the larger issues that affect it.

They don't get much bigger than what happened on 9/11, and I think it's right for RT and RFS to search for something deeper, to piece together some of these disparate fragments into a coherent whole.

However, when doing this I think it's right to factor in the emotional response. Because America has unrivalled power and unrivalled means to project it across the globe, there was an element of disbelief outside of the fact that it's unbelievable to watch a 757 flying into the WTC. 'How can this happen?','How can this be allowed to happen?' are the most commonly voiced questions, and when you ask these questions and compare what happened to America's power, people come to the conclusion that it can only happen if there was collusion,and corruption on behalf of the US government.

This, RT RFS, is wrong.

It's wrong because people fill in the blanks, people theoreticise, people prognosticate and they also just make it up. People who have been given a voice by the internet use it to vent their spleen on the the 'Federal' nature of the US government. And because they see in this Federal arrangement, unlimited power, patronage and corruption they cannot believe that anything happens without it's say so.

Things happen out there all the time, nasty, unpleasant terrifying things, to ordinary people all the time and they happen without the say so of the US government. They continue to happen and will continue to happen.

To the frustration of much of the rest of what is commonly termed the free world, the US government and its people indulge in this self destructive, insular conspiracy theorisation far too much. There are limits to your power, there are limits to your influence and failure to recognise this is dangerous.

As far back as Woodrow Wilson, the US has sought to regard it's coastline as a white picket fence where the lunacy of 'old Europe' and the middle east could not reach. It can, it has, it does.

9/11 happened because there are really frightening people out there. Even more frightening than your intellectually challenged president with his fragmented, marginalising foreign policy.

Increasingly, nation states, national governments and national policy are an irrelevance. In the age of free trade, free movement of people, and the internet , tat white picket fence doesn't exist , if it ever did.

The responsible thing to do in my opinion is to stop this insular theorising, look outside of your country for the problems and the solutions, and stop blaming yourselves and your government for things that you can't control.

As far as my politics are concerned, I don't really fit into an American party model. On some issues, such as taxation and wealth re-distribution you could say I'm more Republican, on Environmental policy, corporate governance, and foreign policy i'm more democratic. In a UK party model I'm a conservative with a small 'c'.

I've studied international relations to postgraduate level, and whilst that certainly doesn't mean that I consider myself infallibly right it does make me consider things outside of my own limited perspective as a UK national.

I don't mean this to be hectoring, or arrogant and I hope you don't consider it as such, I just think you should make every effort to divert your attention to the truly worrying things that happen outside your own country. If you and your government do the world will be a much better place.

Two good books:- AL QAEDA by Jason Burke and THE SHIELD OF ACHILLES by Philip Bobbitt.

[AvengerRam]

Right... I'm the author of the "Media Glower Rankings," but I believe everything the press tells me... yeah, that must be it.

I believe what I can see with my own eyes, what I hear from credible sources, and what I can evaluate with my own keen sense of logic. Does that amount to 100% accuracy? Of course not.

Are there gaps in the information regarding 9/11? Undoubtedly. Are there seemingly unanswered questions? Quite possibly. Does that justify taking the monumental leap to some conspiracy theory suggesting that the U.S. Government planned, assisted, deliberately worsened or covered up the attacks? No. That's just bad logic.

If you want to entertain conspiracy theories grounded upon no facts, but plenty of speculation, incorrect information, twisted logic and outright lies, that's your business.

As a lawyer, I know all too well that clever minds can often present two versions of a story... yet there is still only one truth.

[RamsFanSam]

Originally Posted by AvengerRam

As a lawyer, I know all too well that clever minds can often present two versions of a story... yet there is still only one truth.

My point exactly. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Just because a person questions the validity of a story about 9-11 does not mean that they believe there was governmental manipulation.
99% of these conspiracy experts (including Michael Moore) need to take their medications as instructed on the label.

Many people believe that the real conspiracy theory is the official story of what happened on September 11th. 19 Muslims with box cutters from the middle east in the name of Ala and nudged by Bin Laden successfully beat our airport security and our trillion dollar air defense system by simultaneously hijacking 4 air planes and flying them into targets vaporizing at least one airplane and demolishing 3 steel framed sky scrapers defying the laws of physics.

A conspiracy theory is a hypothesis that has no hard evidence backing it up thus the word “theory”. Condoleezza Rice told the American people that they would provide proof that Osama was behind the events of 911. Unless I have missed it, the only proof put forth has been our government telling us that this was the case. Bin Laden has denied any involvement stating that it is against Islam to harm innocent women and children. Whether or not he abides by his beliefs is immaterial because the government has produced no hard evidence to back up their claims. The fact that the Bush Family and the Bin Laden family have been business partners for decades doesn’t help the official story either.

To have a conspiracy you need some evidence. Here is some evidence.

“Put Options” are purchased when someone believes a stock price will go down. The government monitors the sale of put options and other stocks for reasons of national security.

1. Put options for two and only two airlines (American and United) were purchased on September 10th 11 times their daily average.
2. Put options for (Dean Witter / Morgan Stanley) were purchased 11 times their daily average the 3 days prior to September 11th. Dean Witter / Morgan Stanley occupied 29 floors of the World Trade Center.

3. The government changed their story 3 times regarding their failure of scrambling fighter jets. Prior to 911 scrambling fighter jets due to wayward aircraft happened roughly 100 times per year. It was routine operating procedure yet they bumbled all 4 planes on September 11th.

4. When Payne Stewart’s jet did not respond to air traffic controllers there was an F16 fighter jet on his wing within 20 minutes. 4 known hijacked commercial jets are flying around in the most heavily guarded air space in the world for an hour and a half and we could not scramble any fighters to any of the jets until it was to late. At minimum this is incompetence. Incompetence is usually followed up by reprimand but just like Kukar in the Superbowl was not reprimanded no heads rolled over complete incompetence of not scrambling fighters.
5. Even though two hijacked planes had crashed into buildings and all indications were that there could be more hijackings the secret service did not whisk the president away to safety. His publicized photo op at a school in Florida could have easily been a target of the terrorists however the secret service allowed the president to sit in that class room reading a book for 20 minutes then make his address to the American people from that same school. How can this be explained except for the fact that someone in our government had prior knowledge of where the attacks would take place. What about the safety of the kids at that school? Should they not have evacuated that school in case one of those planes were aimed at the president? Its obvious that our military did not know where the planes were headed due to the fact that they could not get a fighter on one wing of one hijacked airplanes.


• Before September 11th steel liquefied at 5000 degrees. This temperature is achieved only through controlled and contained fire where the fuel and air is properly mixed or through high explosives such as with controlled demolition. Pools of molten steel was found in the basement of the World trade center weeks after the collapse.
• :Never before in history has a steel framed sky scraper collapsed due to fire however 3 of them collapsed on September 11th. One building had small fires on only two floors and was NOT hit by an airplane nor any significant amount of debris from the other towers. This building fell perfectly into its own footprint and at free fall speed. One demolition expert said that the collapse would have earned a demolition company a bonus for being so precise.
• An airplane completely vaporizes after a crash however they are able to identify 85% of the human remains in that crash. Amazing.
• A Boeing 757 fly’s just inches above the ground by an inexperienced pilot crashing into a steel reinforced concrete building creating a 16 foot diameter hole and leaves no wreckage on the outside of the building.• An Airplane crashes straight into the ground yet debris is found scattered over an 8 mile area including an engine found over a mile away from the crash site. Never in history has a plane scattered so thoroughly after hitting the ground.
• Hijackers are found alive and well after the crashes.
• Before September 11th and since September 11th only rockets and missiles have left visible white streaks behind them at low altitudes. This is because they carry their own oxygen. Jets flying where the air is below freezing such as at high altitudes also create those white streaks you see in the sky. They do not leave those white streaks at low altitudes or at ground level especially on a warm summer day. However on September 11th 2001 flight 77 left a white streak at ground level right before it hit the pentagon according to photos released by the pentagon.
• Never before has a building collapsed at free fall speed except in cases of controlled demolition. The towers collapsed from top to bottom as fast as it would take a beam to fall from the roof of the towers to the ground. The pancake theory defies physics in that the pan caking of the floors did not slow the collapse of the building. The building fell as fast as if it were falling through thin air. Again before September 11th this was only possible with controlled demolition.

• Can someone point to a picture of this stack of floors? The way the 911 commission report has explained it, there should be a stack of floors with the central core column sticking uip in the air. much like when a stack of old phonograph albums would fall all at once. However the spindal did not collapse with the phonograph records it continued sticking up in the air. Where is the core column of the two towers? Shredded into 30 foot sections conviently ready to be loaded onto trucks.

The pancake theory doesn't hold water when you consider that in the collapse of this tower the section of the tower above the impact point started falling to the side then disentegrated into the dust cloud. The law of angular motion holds that once a mass starts moving in one direction it will continue in that direction unless acted upon by an outside force (High explosives). Look at the top section of the building and its obviously impossible to have pancaking when you have the tower falling over like the top 300 feet being cut from a 1000 foot tree.


• Before September 11th 2001 nobody had been able to get steel to melt with jet fuel or any other hydrocarbon fire. Steel workers fool with generated electricity, bottled oxygen and special torches. But these hijackers were able to get it done with jet fuel and office supplies.
• Even though 7 out of 8 of the black boxes were damaged beyond repair due to the fire burning hot enough to melt steel, one of the hijackers passports magically flew out of his pocket through the inferno and landed two blocks away not even singed.
• George Bushes brother owned the company that was in charge of security for Dulles airport, American Airlines and of course the World Trade Center.
• George Bush Senior was having omelets with the Bin Laden family during the attacks.
• George Bush allowed the Bin laden family to board a jet out of the United States on September 13th without being questioned.
• George Bush’s first investor in his first oil company was Osama bin Laden’s brother.
• George Bush said he saw the first plane fly into the first building and he thought it was pilot error. Amazing since there was no video of that first plane hitting the first tower untill several hours later.
• Plans to atta