Every American Should See And Hear What The Rest Of the World Already Knows

RamTime · -01-26-2006

Originally Posted by AvengerRam

You know RamTime, your posts are fraught with assertions of "fact." These "facts," which you rely upon to support your hypothesis, seem to come from three types of sources: (1) highly questionable sources, (2) hearsay (in some cases, multiple - i.e. third hand or more), (3) no source at all.

You have every right to believe what you want, but to expect anyone to subscribe to your theories, you need to do more than say "so-and-so said this" or "this is true - trust me."

Go back and look. I did source things but it didn't seem to do any good. The videos and photos of the pentagon show no airplane at the crash site however people still say there was a plane at the crash site. How do you fight that? Why bother sourcing anything after that? You want more sources? OK But it takes a lot of time to retrace those steps. If I go through the trouble of linking the sources I expect you will take the time to look at them. fair Enough?

**AvengerRam** · -01-26-2006

Not to be rude, but I've wasted far too much time on this nonsense already. I refuse to waste more by going point by point through your analysis, which I find entirely unscientific, illogical and the product of obvious bias.

I will, by way of example, look at one statement which I think is somewhat illustrative of the overall problem with your analysis. You state:

What about the owner of the World trade center admitting that they blew up building 7?

That is not an accurate statement. As you noted in an earlier post, the owner of Building 7 in fact said that when he was advised of the status of the firefighting efforts in the building, he said "there's been enough loss of life" and then used the phrase that we should "pull it."

Some have argued that "pull it" is industry terminology meaning to demolish via explosives.

Here's the first problem: if the language used is ambiguous, and requires interpretation, its hardly an admission that "they blew up building 7."

Now, you also neglect to mention that, since making the statement, the owner of the building later explained that when he said "pull it," he was referring to the firefighting operation.

I have no doubt what your response will be - that he was pressured by the government to "retract" his earlier statement.

The problem there is that your argument becomes entirely circular. To prove the goverment is corrupt, you rely on a quote. To prove that the clarification of the quote is a lie, you ask us to presume that the government is corrupt. In other words, your hypothesis and the presumption that support it are one and the same.

All you have is an interpretion of an ambiguous statement regarding Building 7, which has been subsequently clarified. That does not convince me one bit that the terrorist attacks on the WTC were staged.

As I said, I'm not going to waste my time addressing each and every point you've tried to make. I have no doubt in my mind that there is a cogent response to each of them, but to go through such an analsyis is, in my mind, far more that this nonsense merits.

And I'm done with this topic.

***Fat Pang*** · -01-26-2006

Hear, hear AV.

I'd had enough after reading that the Bush family apparently funded the rise of the NSDAP and then the German war machine in WW2.

Not to mention the idiotic quotation "History is history no matter who writes it".

In response to each objection all that is received is further circumstantial conspiracy fodder and even more fantastic theory.

Errant nonsense..............

I have but one final point, if the Bush family is responsible for everything you say they are in the role of the executive, can you explain to me why they would seek to enlighten us all in 2009 instead of 2051?

**AvengerRam** · -01-26-2006

Okay, so I lied... one more word on the subject.

Or, should I say, "1,000 words" (i.e. a picture), of aircraft wreckage at the Pentagon (published the magazine Popular Mechanics):

Okay, now I'm done.

**r8rh8rmike** · -01-26-2006

The bottom line here is if these conspiracy claims had any legs what so ever, THEY WOULD BE NEWS, BIG NEWS. But obviously they don't, and they're not. This stuff has been floating around for almost half a decade now and if Howard Dean, the New York Times, Michael Moore or any other Bush hating zealot can't get traction out of any of it, you're just beating the proverbial dead horse.

***ramsbruce*** · -01-26-2006

I'm not going to get into this discussion, but I would just like to point out that one of your sources RT is wikipedia.
Wikipedia can't be used as a valid source because anybody on the internet can edit any page on wikipedia. So wikipedia can be a fountain of misinformation. You can't take anything from wikipedia as gospel because you don't know who is writing it and if they are credible.

RamTime · -01-26-2006

Ah confronted with evidence and you run. Great lawyering there I'll tell you.
So then i guess you will be routing for the Rams to win the Superbowl. I'm sure you won't let a little thing such as not being able to see them on the field get in the way. Funny you can fit an entire team on a Boeing 757 however your sure they are not playing in the game because you don't see them on the field. Conversely you don't see a 757 at a crash site yet you claim it is there. Enjoy the confused world you choose to live in. You sheeple have not provided one iota of proof which is consistent with a conspiracy theory. God help us. Oh and listen to the clip again he says we decided to pull it and then we watched the building collapse. Just what did he mean by pull it if he did not mean blow the g**d*** building up? did he mean hook it up to a pickup and pull it into the bay? Maybe thats what he meant. Sure that makes sense since it was on fire. Sorry I did not pick up on that. Since your so sure that our government is clean and we were the innocent victim of terrorists with box cutters hijacking planes why don't you take my sons place and head on over to Iraq to expose of the boogie man.

***Fat Pang*** · -01-26-2006

What evidence?

Surely the burden of proof for such a fantasists playground lies with you.

You have provided hearsay, conjecture and poor interpretation and parade it as fact.

You ignore common sense experience and historical fact and replace it with facetious nonsense.

And then seek to ridicule opposing opinion with what I'm sure you feel is cutting irony.

You have provided nothing new except an absurd distortion which will do nothing except provide succour and shelter to the enemies of the values your own constitution and democratic, free society represents.

The reason I'm inclined to believe this is my last word on this subject is that this thread no longer serves any point, other than for you to advertise your second hand fantasies.

I'm aware this constitutes an attack on a poster not a post, and I apologise, but would hope the condescension present in RT's previous post mitigates it to some extent.

RamTime · -01-26-2006

Originally Posted by Fat Pang

Hear, hear AV.

I'd had enough after reading that the Bush family apparently funded the rise of the NSDAP and then the German war machine in WW2.

Not to mention the idiotic quotation "History is history no matter who writes it".

In response to each objection all that is received is further circumstantial conspiracy fodder and even more fantastic theory.

Errant nonsense..............

I have but one final point, if the Bush family is responsible for everything you say they are in the role of the executive, can you explain to me why they would seek to enlighten us all in 2009 instead of 2051?

No! let's see if you have the ability to find something on your own. Try starting with the Freedom of information act.

RamTime · -01-26-2006

Originally Posted by Fat Pang

What evidence?

Surely the burden of proof for such a fantasists playground lies with you.

You have provided hearsay, conjecture and poor interpretation and parade it as fact.

You ignore common sense experience and historical fact and replace it with facetious nonsense.

And then seek to ridicule opposing opinion with what I'm sure you feel is cutting irony.

You have provided nothing new except an absurd distortion which will do nothing except provide succour and shelter to the enemies of the values your own constitution and democratic, free society represents.

The reason I'm inclined to believe this is my last word on this subject is that this thread no longer serves any point, other than for you to advertise your second hand fantasies.

I'm aware this constitutes an attack on a poster not a post, and I apologise, but would hope the condescension present in RT's previous post mitigates it to some extent.

How frickin Stupid are you? Since when is video evidence not evidence. Your an imbusul because there is official documentation of what has been posted about Bush's family so your speaking out of your a$$. The reason you are inclined to believe this is your last word on this is because you are the epitome of what ails this country. You have decided to follow avenger because you can not think for yourself. You are a follower who is lost without an a$$ to stick your nose in.