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  1. #1
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    I don't celebrate Christmas. Never have, never will. I celebrate Hannukah.

    As a result, there are circumstances in which I prefer the greeting "Happy Holidays" to "Merry Christmas." Its never a big deal, but there are times (particularly when the speaker knows my religion) I think the more neutral greeting is appropriate.

    But now, according to certain members of the "Religious Right" and about 80% of the talking heads on Fox News, I'm apparently perceived as being "at war with Christmas."

    As an initial response to this, I find it amazing how a religious group holding an 80% majority in this country can cry "persecution!" without being summarily laughed off the public stage. When you think about it, its an act of marketing genius to pull that one off.

    As for my beliefs on the issue of Christmas, they can be broken down as follows:

    Public Sector (Government buildings, public schools, etc.): Last time I checked, the separation of Church and State was still part of the U.S. Constitution. Consequently, the best policy is for the public sector to stay as far from any act that could be perceived as supporting or validating any religious holiday. In a perfect application of this principal, the public sector would stick to "Happy Holidays" and "Seasons Greetings." Instead, we have an ever-shifting line between "secular Holiday symbols" (an oxymoron) and "religious Holiday symbols." Santa, trees, dreidels and Kwanza candelabras... okay; baby Jesus, Judas Maccabee....not so much. Now, apparently, songs are part of the controversy: Jingle Bells... fine; Oh Holy Night... no. My opinion - PUBLIC SECTOR SHOULD KEEP OUT OF IT AND JUST REMAIN TRULY SECULAR. But the public sector issue is a mere sidenote to the larger part of this manufactured "war on Christmas" theory.

    Private Sector: Should Macy's employees say "Merry Christmas," "Happy Holidays," or "Season's Greetings." Who gives a crap? Certainly, if there are going to be Christmas trees in the store, I'd like to see an occasional dreidel or menorah as well, but otherwise, how did this become an issue? According to the Religious Right, people like me are supposedly "offended" if told to have a "Merry Christmas." Nonsense. I, for one, would never fault a stranger for assuming (again, having an 8/10 chance of being right) that I celebrate Christmas.

    So, I say this to the Religious Right...

    To quote John Lennon, "War is over, if you want it, war is over now."

    And a Happy Christmas to you all.


  2. #2
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Boy, you sure are not going to like the plans I have for Christmas on the web site

  3. #3
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    I've never understood why the term Religious Right has come to such prominence. I've never heard of the Atheistic Left, so why so much from the Religious Right? Is it because there are more? And if so, wouldn't they be more to the center than the right? I don't know.......politics makes me want to take a shower or at least rinse off. The political battlefield is eerily similar to an un-moderated message board.

    On to the subject at hand, to AV and any other member of the Jewish faith..........Happy Hannukah

    To all of the other Christians out there.........Merry Christmas

    To everybody else..........Happy Holidays.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  4. #4
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    I'm at war with Christmas and here's why. It's my freaking birthday. Christmas was started back in the Roman Empire. Christians were trying to find a time of year that they could celebrate Christ's birth and not get noticed. Well, the last two weeks of December the Romans celebrated something called the Saturnalia. And so, one lame brained Christian decided..."let's have it on tx's birthday, December 25th. That way, we won't get noticed by the Romans and we will certainly upset tx for his entire life". So, that's why I'm at war with Christmas.

    C'mon....the sheep were laying in the fields. How often do you see sheep laying in the fields in December? Slim and none and Slim left town, that's how often.

  5. #5
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    I've never understood why the term Religious Right has come to such prominence. I've never heard of the Atheistic Left, so why so much from the Religious Right?
    I think it really is because certain individuals have identified themselves with both religion and the Republican Party (i.e. Pat Robertson).

    It is, though, an unfair term, given that it takes two concepts ("Religious"/ "the Right") that are not negative, standing alone, and combines them into a term with a pejorative connotation.

    I used it merely as a convenience, as I didn't want to keep typing out Bill O'Reilly/Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity/Michael Savage/Jerry Falwell.

  6. #6
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    I'm not at war with Christmas, either. I just hate what it has become. Instead of a time when families get together, spend time with loved ones, and reflect on their personal beliefs while teaching their children the meaning of the season, we now have a commercial blast happening every year.
    Everyone speaks about giving. What they are really asking for is spending. Don't believe me? Go to the toy department at the local department store. You can't get anything that will last longer than two days for less than $20. You can't buy an Etch-A-Sketch. You can't find Lincoln Logs. They no longer make plain old Legos. Regular Barbie? Forget it. They have Princess Barbie, Doctor Barbie, Pregnant Barbie, Lesbian Barbie, Republican Barbie, Terrorist-Hunting Barbie, even a Mistress Barbie - but no plain, old-fashioned girl-next-door Barbie. Candyland is not a board game anymore - it is a DVD Edition game.
    I don't even put up a tree until two weeks before Christmas. I'm sick of getting the "Holiday Spirit" rammed down my throat. I guess that is why I don't listen to the 'traditional' holiday songs...I prefer the ones by Bob Rivers, Rob Zombie, Joe Satriani, etc...

    To me the Holiday season should have more meaning.

    Sorry for the rant, but I'm sure I am not the only one.

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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Sam you sound like my parents. They get really wound up about how commercialized the holidays have become and they pretty much boycott the whole idea. My family typically does not get together for Christmas. We have a family gathering at the beach during the summer instead. I agree that family time is better than presents.

    This year I am going on a cruise to Costa Rica and Panama with my parents for Christmas. I figured it was a good idea to hang with the 'rents now that the ol man is healthy again after he has recovered from the heart surgery he had last year. I leave in a week and I think that the internet may be unavailable. I'll have some withdrawal issues no doubt, but I will work through it.

    I like to wish everyone here Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and Happy Hanukkah! Enjoy.
    Last edited by UtterBlitz; -12-10-2005 at 01:52 PM.
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  8. #8
    Pats and Sox Guest

    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    I'm another Jewish football fan who will be sinisterly plotting to steal Bill O'Reilly's Christmas. Happy Hanukkah to him, Merry Christmas to others, and a Tip Top Tet to the rest of you. Now I must go piss in Jerry Falwell's potato latkes.

  9. #9
    psycho9985 Guest

    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Jesus was born on september 25th.He was conseived
    miraculously on dec. 25th.The religious right is a term coined by the left wing media to make Christians sound like nazis,as in vast rightwing conspiracy.
    The Christian and Jewish religions are being attacked and attacked from every corner of the globe and we're fighting back,and we're not going to lay down to anybody.
    Last edited by psycho9985; -12-10-2005 at 11:26 PM.

  10. #10
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pats&Sox
    I'm another Jewish football fan who will be sinisterly plotting to steal Bill O'Reilly's Christmas.
    Quote Originally Posted by AV
    I'm apparently perceived as being "at war with Christmas."
    Guys, I admit I don't get to always hear O'Reilly (who I believe is the most vocal about the attack on Christmas) on the radio or TV, but from what I have heard, I don't think he's saying it's the Jewish people that are attacking Christmas. As I understand his point, it's the extreme secularism that O'Reilly, and Hannity and others have a problem with. I don't even think Christmas is the important battleground, per se, but just a convenient point in time to make the argument.

    I think they're trying to say that this country was founded on certain values that find their basis in a Judeo-Christian belief system.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think he's saying the Jewish faith is attacking Christmas. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  11. #11
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Of course he's not saying that. But, to some extent, its what he means.

    Even if he is not intending to make this a Christian vs. Jewish issue, that is the likely impact of his rhetoric.

    Complain that "someone" is trying to take away Christmas... mention that some of those people are offended by the phrase "Merry Christmas"... mention that schools are allowing Hannukah songs but not "Silent Night" (a claim nobody has verified)... and let people reach their conclusions.

  12. #12
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    mention that schools are allowing Hannukah songs but not "Silent Night" (a claim nobody has verified)...
    I'll grant you, that does appear pretty pointed.
    Complain that "someone" is trying to take away Christmas... mention that some of those people are offended by the phrase "Merry Christmas"...
    But when I hear things like this, the Jewish faith is NOT what I consider as the opponent of Christmas. That doesn't make any more sense (to me anyway) than saying I'm attacking Hannakuh.

    I tread very lightly on this issue, because I "know" exactly 2 Jewish people in this world.....my wife's cousin-in-law, and you AV. Other than that my insight to the Jewish faith is based solely in the Bible classes I had during college and that rested solely in Jewish history, not even skimming contemporary Judaism.

    I say all that to say that I honestly have no idea of your perspective regarding this issue. However, from my limited scope, I believe the "attack" (for lack of better term) on Christmas is not from anyone within the Jewish faith, but from extreme secularists.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  13. #13
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Right now, I am dealing with my daughter being confused by the 'politically correct' teaching being done in her kindergarten class. She told me that we should celebrate Kwanza because the teacher said it's celebrated in December.
    I used the opportunity to explain that there are three major celebrations in this month. I said Kwanza is more like a thanksgiving of the first fruits, and is celebrated mainly by Africans and their decendants, but other peoples celebrate it sometimes. Sami also learned a little bit about Hanukkah (mainly because I don't know a lot about it), but I explained about the Jewish people, the Feast of Lights and the meaning of the Menorah. (I apologize if my ignorance resulted in faulty teaching...)
    Then I explained (with Mom's help) why our family celebrates Christmas, and that some of Sami's ancestors did not, as they were American Indians. Tawn also told her that her grandmother was Jewish, and she celebrated Hanukkah.
    If nothing else, this discussion has resulted in a five year old learning that different people have different beliefs, and that no matter their faith, she should respect who the person is and their beliefs.

  14. #14
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison

    I say all that to say that I honestly have no idea of your perspective regarding this issue. However, from my limited scope, I believe the "attack" (for lack of better term) on Christmas is not from anyone within the Jewish faith, but from extreme secularists.
    Perhaps there are a few "secularists" who are trying to eliminate all references to all holidays from all facets of life. My concern is that people who hear this rhetoric will likely miss that point and presume that all people who don't celebrate Christmas are necessarily anti-Christmas.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -12-11-2005 at 03:41 PM.

  15. #15
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    My concern is that people who hear this rhetoric will likely miss that point and presume that all people who don't celebrate Christmas are necessarily anti-Christmas.
    Sort of like how those who are against the war in Iraq supposedly don't support the troops? Same tactics, different topic.

    I'm critical about a lot of what President Bush does, but I thought his sending out a Happy Holidays card instead of a Merry Christmas card this season was commendable.

    Still, if someone comes up to me and wishes me a Happy Hannukah, it's not going to bother me. In this day and age, I'm happy that people are actually still wishing each other good will, regardless of what name or religion they associate it with.
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