I'm NOT at war with Christmas!

[txramsfan]

I hate Christmas.....I hate Hannukah.....I hate Kwanzaa.....

I'm an equal opportunity hater........

signed, The Grinch who had his birthday ruined.

LOL


Honestly though, my favorite holidays are Memorial Day and Labor Day. No Hallmark cards. No gift giving. Lot's of BBQ, lakes and rivers, beer, and fun.

[coy bacon]

Av,
If you went to as much trouble to find out what has gotten the "religious right" fired up, as you do in blasting Bernie, you'd better understand where they are coming from.

Otherwise you're building a strawman.

There has been a lot of negative bias and action against traditional Christian's Christmas. Recently a library in TN, allowed a manger scene, but refused to allow the wise men, Mary and Joseph, and the baby Jesus to be part of it. Talk about some stupid liberal librarians!

Other schools have banned traditional Christmas carols. I believe a library in FL allowed Jewish and the recently invented "Kwanza" holiday displays, but refused Christian "Christmas" displays.

And, calling it a "holiday" tree, instead of a Christmas tree is just plain stupid.

I say if the politicians and policy makers are going to allow members of one faith to express themselves, they've got to let the others. Otherwise, ban them all. I don't think Christianity should have a special right to use public resources to preach its message. Neither should other faiths. But if members of the local community want to celebrate an aspect of their culture, even if it has religious overtones, let them. It's no big deal. But the gov. should not penalize one faith over another.

I've hated the forced commercialism of Christmas for a long time. Me and my family keep the gift giving as low key as possible.

And, from what I know about Christianity, I don't think having to spend a lot of money to buy people gifts is what that is all about.

I'll be celebrating Festivus this season!

[AvengerRam]

Av,
If you went to as much trouble to find out what has gotten the "religious right" fired up, as you do in blasting Bernie, you'd better understand where they are coming from.

Otherwise you're building a strawman.

I know what has them fired up - the desire to overcome the notion that they are the ones with the power and instead play the role of victim.

There has been a lot of negative bias and action against traditional Christian's Christmas. Recently a library in TN, allowed a manger scene, but refused to allow the wise men, Mary and Joseph, and the baby Jesus to be part of it. Talk about some stupid liberal librarians!

It if was a public library, none of those things should be there.

Other schools have banned traditional Christmas carols.

Which ones? Rudolf? Frosty? Or religious songs like "Oh Holy Night" or "Silent Night"? Big difference, no?

I believe a library in FL allowed Jewish and the recently invented "Kwanza" holiday displays, but refused Christian "Christmas" displays.

That is simply not true. That's the kind of lies that O'Reilly is famous for. Generally, what has happened is that certain public entities have used "secular" holiday symbols (i.e. Christmas Tee, dreidel, etc.) and prohibitted overtly religious symbols (i.e. nativity scenes).

And, calling it a "holiday" tree, instead of a Christmas tree is just plain stupid.

It is stupid. Its a Christmas Tree, and its an icon associated with Christianity. I would never have a lighted tree at my house.

I say if the politicians and policy makers are going to allow members of one faith to express themselves, they've got to let the others. Otherwise, ban them all. I don't think Christianity should have a special right to use public resources to preach its message. Neither should other faiths. But if members of the local community want to celebrate an aspect of their culture, even if it has religious overtones, let them. It's no big deal. But the gov. should not penalize one faith over another.

I am not aware of a single example of the government peanlizing one faith over another. Again, that's the propaganda, not the facts.

I've hated the forced commercialism of Christmas for a long time. Me and my family keep the gift giving as low key as possible.

And, from what I know about Christianity, I don't think having to spend a lot of money to buy people gifts is what that is all about.

I'll be celebrating Festivus this season!

Looking forward to feats of strength.

[Tom_SF]

It's not you that the 'religious right' is after. You can celebrate or not celebrate any day you want. People who are afraid of the ACLU and other leftist groups just give in and try to secularize Christmas. For cryin' out loud, what sense does it make to take Christmas out of Christmas???? If it was suddenly moved to August I guarantee there wouldn't be any "Holiday" sales and the only parties will be on New Year's Day. (Just don't tell liberals that it's "the year of our Lord"... On second thought, do it just to freak them out, they're probably Niners fans anyway).

[talkstoangels61]

this is why i do not claim any religion1.........i believe that as long as you believe in the good man upstairs that you are in the eyes of the beholder!....as far as God caring whether we celebrate Christmas i really dont think he cares!..........He just wants to see a smile from the HEART and on some ones face!...........i do know he'd like to see us give too more than just our family and friends! i give to charities but, by NO means do i give enough! we as a PLANET should have NO hunger,pain,depression etc. WE as a PLANET have all the needs here to stop it! Greed is what kills this PLANET and nothing more!.......................Dez, i would like for you to maybe set aside a account for our clan and let's all donate to a worthy cause!............If we can afford to go to games and buy computers then I say we can afford to give to the NEEDY!.....After all we are supposed to be the BEST CLAN around aren't we?...........Let's start giving to the people that really aren't so lucky!!!! What ye' say my friend?
CLANRAM.................The Clan that GIVES and wants to HELP!

[RamsFanSam]

Oh, well. With the stunts pulled by the extreme right, and the ultra-liberal left, within 10 years the only thing we will be able to do is wish each other a "happy non-religious, mid-to-late December celebration".
Damn them all. This country was founded with an intent to allow FREEDOM OF RELIGION. This means each person should be allowed to celebrate the holidays of their faith without any bullcrap from other people OR the government. People would be free to greet others with an appropriate greeting without someone else telling them that someone might be offended.
I will continue to greet those who are Christians with "Merry Christmas". I will greet those who are Jews with "Happy Hanukkah". All others will get "Happy Hoidays", including those I don't know the beliefs of.
This is America. We should be free to believe how we choose. Just respect others who may believe different.
Oh. Fire the politicians AND the ACLU.

Dez, i would like for you to maybe set aside a account for our clan and let's all donate to a worthy cause!............If we can afford to go to games and buy computers then I say we can afford to give to the NEEDY!.....After all we are supposed to be the BEST CLAN around aren't we?...........Let's start giving to the people that really aren't so lucky!!!! What ye' say my friend?
CLANRAM.................The Clan that GIVES and wants to HELP!

This might not be a bad idea. It seems almost too late this year, but maybe next year we can all get together and find a child to sponsor during the Holidays and perhaps give them the opportunity to know someone cares?
I know even in my city there are kids who have to live through this time of year without any type of gift. My daughter goes to school with many of them. Doesn't matter who the kid is, if everyone else gets a present and they don't, it has to be hard for them.
How about it, guys and gals? Is this an idea or what?

[talkstoangels61]

we need everyone's imput here!

[coy bacon]

[QUOTE=AvengerRam]I know what has them fired up - the desire to overcome the notion that they are the ones with the power and instead play the role of victim.

Av,
I suspect that you still have that axe to grind against Christians. Something that was perciptable back in the Kurt Warner days. I've read a lot of accounts about religion in the public and I think in many cases the Religious Right is right and they have a legitimate beef. I've never suspected them of wanting to play the victim. That's why I admonished you to do some research before launching an attack. Don't bother using the "propaganda" defense, its worn out and shallow.



<<<Which ones? Rudolf? Frosty? Or religious songs like "Oh Holy Night" or "Silent Night"? Big difference, no?>>>

No.


<<<That is simply not true.>>>

It is true. Do your homework first.

Again, if a municipality is going to allow various group to use their facilities for various forms of expression, it should be open to all, even if they are religious. Otherwise ban them all. Treat people fairly, even if you disagree with them.

[AvengerRam]

Av,
I suspect that you still have that axe to grind against Christians. Something that was perciptable back in the Kurt Warner days.

If that was supposed to be funny, it wasn't. If you were serious, you are clueless.

I've read a lot of accounts about religion in the public and I think in many cases the Religious Right is right and they have a legitimate beef. I've never suspected them of wanting to play the victim. That's why I admonished you to do some research before launching an attack. Don't bother using the "propaganda" defense, its worn out and shallow.

I did, in fact, do research and found that many of the generalizations being made by talking heads like O'Reilly are either half-truths or out and out lies. As for the Religious Right playing the victim, what else would you call it when an 80% majority claims to be persecuted?

Me: Which ones? Rudolf? Frosty? Or religious songs like "Oh Holy Night" or "Silent Night"? Big difference, no?

Coy: No.

Again, I hope you're not being serious here.

I hope you don't honestly think its okay for a public school to have children of the Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu faith sing:

O' Holy night, the stars are brightly shining
It is the night of our dear Savior's birth
Long lay the world
In sin and error pining
'Til He appeared and the soul felt His worth

The thrill of hope,
The weary world rejoices
For yonder brings a new and glorious morn

Fall on your knees
Oh, hear the angel's voices
O' night divine
O' night when Christ was born
O' night divine
O' night,
O' night divine

O' Holy night, the stars are brightly shining
It is the night of our dear Savior's birth
Oh...
Long lay the world
In sin and error pining
'Til He appeared and the soul felt His worth

The thrill of hope,
The weary world rejoices
For yonder brings a new and glorious morn

Fall on your knees
Oh, hear the angel's voices
O' night divine
O' night when Christ was born
O' night divine
O' night,
O' night di...divine

If you think that's okay, you are truly clueless.

<<<That is simply not true.>>>

It is true. Do your homework first.

Again, I did research this, and I found absolutely no news articles from any source confirming your claim. The only stories I found involved not allowing nativity scenes at public libraries, which is obviously consistent with the separation of Church and State.

Again, if a municipality is going to allow various group to use their facilities for various forms of expression, it should be open to all, even if they are religious. Otherwise ban them all. Treat people fairly, even if you disagree with them.

Wrong. There is a specifica prohibition against State sponsored religious expression. If you don't like that, lobby for an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, or move to Tehran.

[txramsfan]

I hate Christmas....even though I'm going to be a classic 42 and still 170 lbs of twisted steel and sex appeal.....

[UtterBlitz]

Hey Avenger, the Barenaked Ladies have a couple of Jewish Hanukkah songs on their holiday cd. Three songs to be exact. My favorite is I have a little dreidel. You should check it out, but you will need to skip through all those freaking christmas songs.


So Avenger do you light the menorah in your house and give presents for all 8 days? Presents for all 8 days sounds pretty nice. Perhaps I should come visit. Can I have some presents?

[AvengerRam]

Yes, we do light the menorah (although, its more specifially called a Hanukkiah). The kids get presents all 8 days (though, they diminish in size each day).

[UtterBlitz]

Yes, we do light the menorah (although, its more specifially called a Hanukkiah). The kids get presents all 8 days (though, they diminish in size each day).

Sorry, my technical jewish terms are not very good.

So what is day one? What kind of presents are they? Typical toy stuff? How big is big? How small is small? Does the value go down with the days? You know how small things can cost a lot.

Is it Xbox on day 1 working down to dreidels, marbles, and candy on day 8?

[AvengerRam]

There are no rules to these things.

[UtterBlitz]

There are no rules to these things.

I am not asking for the rules. I am asking what you do at your house? I am curious since it is different from what I know.